THELIBERAL Posted June 13, 2005 Report Posted June 13, 2005 Britain HAS a 2 tier healthcare system. Note there are only 3 provinces in this country that have waiting lists as long or longer than Britain for hip replacements! Are you listening or is your head buried in deep Conservative sand!!! WE DO NOT NEED INSURANCE DRIVEN PRIVATE HEAlthcare in this country!!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3749801.stm NHS waiting time 'underestimated' Waiting times may often be much longer than people expect People in Britain underestimate the time they would have to wait for an NHS operation, a survey suggests The poll of 1,000 people, by TNS on behalf of Norwich Union Healthcare, showed most expect to wait five months for a hip operation. Most wait nearer 11 months, independent medical researchers Dr Fosters said. Patients also had unrealistic expectations for other operations and many said they did not know where to go to find out waiting times. A LIST OF THE WAIT TIMES ACROSS CANADA FOR HIP AND KNEE REPLACEMENT SURGERY IN 2000-2001, ACCORDING TO THE ARTHRITIS SOCIETY AND CANADIAN ORTHOPAEDIC ASSOCIATION. Saskatchewan: 23 months New Brunswick: 19 months British Columbia: 11 months Alberta: 10 months Quebec: 7 months P.E.I.: 7 months Ontario: 7 months Manitoba: 6 months Nova Scotia: 6 months Newfoundland: 6 months Quote
THELIBERAL Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Posted June 13, 2005 Knee replacement wait time in Britain? Some say 3 months some say 1 year!!!! Knee replacement in Canada? Wait time 8 weeks!!!! Are you getting it yet? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3749801.stm Waits 'improving' For knee surgery, the public were prepared to wait for three months and expected to wait for five months. The actual wait for a """knee replacement is a year,""" data from Dr Foster suggests. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/331/16/1068 Results About 80 percent of the questionnaires were returned, but not all the respondents answered all the questions. The rate of response to specific questions was about 60 to 65 percent in both countries. The median waiting time for an initial orthopedic consultation was two weeks in the United States and four weeks in Ontario. The median waiting time for knee replacement after the operation had been planned was three weeks in the United States and ""eight weeks in Canada."" In the United States, 95 percent of patients in the national sample considered their waiting time for surgery acceptable, as compared with 85.1 percent in Ontario. Overall satisfaction with surgery ("very or somewhat satisfied") was 85.3 percent for all U.S. respondents and 83.5 percent for Canadian respondents. Quote
THELIBERAL Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Posted June 13, 2005 Open heart surgery in Britain? They've got it down to 3 months! Open heart surgery in Canada? 11 weeks!!!!! http://www.bhf.org.uk/about/printout.asp?s...=111&artID=5439 "Waiting times for heart surgery have been significantly reduced, especially in England. Four years ago, more than 1,000 people were waiting over 12 months for a heart operation. "By December 2003 only a few hundred people waited more than six months and by 2005 none will have to wait more than """three months."" This year we spent a record £53.3 million on our main objective, research; 7% more than last year. "Another £22.1 million was spent on education and care projects; nearly 30% of our regular charitable expenditure and 46% more than in 2002/03. http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/abstract/146/6/921 The mean wait for elective cardiac catheterization was 8.5 weeks. There were 10,097 PTCA procedures done, a rate of 39 per 100,000 population. The mean wait for elective PTCA was 11.0 weeks, the longest wait occurring in Quebec (15.4 weeks). A total of 16,240 open-heart procedures were performed, a rate of 63 per 100,000 population. The mean wait for elective open-heart surgery was 22.6 weeks, the longest wait occurring in Quebec and British Columbia (more than 32 weeks). hint: elective open-heart surgery is in fact a non emergency situation! NOTE: Quebec with the most private clinics in the country HAS the longest waiting times!!! Quote
Canuck E Stan Posted June 13, 2005 Report Posted June 13, 2005 Hey there THELIBERAL, find anything about brain transplants? Hope you don't have to wait too long or go outside of Canada when you get yours. Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
kimmy Posted June 13, 2005 Report Posted June 13, 2005 Is Britain the only two-tier system you found, or is it just the only one that made your argument sound good? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
THELIBERAL Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Posted June 14, 2005 Hey there THELIBERAL, find anything about brain transplants? Hope you don't have to wait too long or go outside of Canada when you get yours. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great come back Stan just wonderful the Conservative crowd must be very happy to have the likes of you in their ranks!!! And people have the nerve to ask me why I vote Liberal. Quote
THELIBERAL Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Posted June 14, 2005 Is Britain the only two-tier system you found, or is it just the only one that made your argument sound good? -k <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No I found another! France has 2 tier healthcare and they are ranked number one BUT GET THIS! France has 3.3 doctors per 1000 population we have 2.1 per 1000 population! What does that tell you "ANYTHING" or isn't your common sense working good enough to figure it out? WE DO NOT NEED INSURANCE DRIVEN HEALTHCARE IN THIS COUNTRY! Quote
Argus Posted June 14, 2005 Report Posted June 14, 2005 Is Britain the only two-tier system you found, or is it just the only one that made your argument sound good? -k <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No I found another! France has 2 tier healthcare and they are ranked number one BUT GET THIS! France has 3.3 doctors per 1000 population we have 2.1 per 1000 population! What does that tell you "ANYTHING" or isn't your common sense working good enough to figure it out? WE DO NOT NEED INSURANCE DRIVEN HEALTHCARE IN THIS COUNTRY! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We do not need trolls on this site. Go away. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Canuck E Stan Posted June 14, 2005 Report Posted June 14, 2005 THELIBERAL, the reason you vote liberal is because you refuse to accept anything but Liberal propaganda.There are good ideas and bad ideas on all sides, this is not a hockey game with the one with most goals wins,this my friend is about what is best for Canadians. If one of the other parties has a better idea on a issue, convince your party to accept it in the interest of Canadians.Dredging up facts that barely support your arguments will not convince anyone but you. Put your brain cells to work, not for the Liberals but for Canadians. Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
Argus Posted June 15, 2005 Report Posted June 15, 2005 THELIBERAL, the reason you vote liberal is because you refuse to accept anything but Liberal propaganda. THELIBERAL IS Liberal Propaganda. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
THELIBERAL Posted June 16, 2005 Author Report Posted June 16, 2005 RE::Dredging up facts that barely support your arguments will not convince anyone but you. Barely support? They do support my arguments that IS why I post them. I've noticed the Conservative crowd here very rarely backs up their rants with facts or a source for their info. Anybody who backs an insurance driven healthcare system must have had very little dealings with insurance companys! Quote
Dan Posted June 16, 2005 Report Posted June 16, 2005 Lieberal, Regardless of anyone's personal feelings on 1 tier vs 2 tier Healthcare, The Courts have made their ruling and the current system violates our Charter Rights. Are you saying that the Charter is Wrong? Quote
THELIBERAL Posted June 16, 2005 Author Report Posted June 16, 2005 Lieberal,Regardless of anyone's personal feelings on 1 tier vs 2 tier Healthcare, The Courts have made their ruling and the current system violates our Charter Rights. Are you saying that the Charter is Wrong? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No i'm not! I'm saying 2 tier healthcare is not the answer especially when that 2nd tier is going to be insurance driven healthcare! There are numerious indications that private healthcare does not lessen wait times. This challenge about the charter was more about a guy having to wait for a hip re-placement than it was about ""choices"" for healthcare! HINT: If he hadn't had to wait he would have never launched his complaint! Quebec as a matter of fact has the most private healthcare clinics so if private clinics shorten wait times why was this guy (HINT who was living in Quebec) complaining! HELLO! Quote
willy Posted June 18, 2005 Report Posted June 18, 2005 This just in. Theliberal is out of step with Canadian values. It turns out the majority of Canadians would like to purchase healthcare if they chose. In fact, seven in ten (70%) agree they should be able to buy services from a private healthcare provider if they want to - 37% strongly feely this way, and more than half of Canadians see two potential positive outcomes as a result of this ruling: 1) 60% percent think it will lead to shorter waiting lists, and 2) 54% think it will lead to improvements in the quality and availability of the healthcare services that their family receives. The Poll Quote
kimmy Posted June 18, 2005 Report Posted June 18, 2005 No I found another! France has 2 tier healthcare and they are ranked number one BUT GET THIS! France has 3.3 doctors per 1000 population we have 2.1 per 1000 population! What does that tell you "ANYTHING" or isn't your common sense working good enough to figure it out? WE DO NOT NEED INSURANCE DRIVEN HEALTHCARE IN THIS COUNTRY! Oh! Get this, Canada has a shortage of doctors relative to other leading nations! That *couldn't* have anything to do with our healthcare system, could it? It *couldn't* be that our system restricts the number of health professionals working in Canada. It *couldn't* be that our system encourages health professionals to take their valuable skills to countries where they can earn more. Could it? Nah, couldn't be. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
August1991 Posted June 18, 2005 Report Posted June 18, 2005 It *couldn't* be that our system encourages health professionals to take their valuable skills to countries where they can earn more.They are not just motivated by higher salaries abroad. The provincial health systems have become Soviet bureaucracies with arcane rules, smothering initiative and flexibility. Health people working in private clinics in Quebec typically give "bureaucracy" as the reason they chose their workplace. I think a person has to have spent several years of their life in the army or the civil service to appreciate fully this idea. Quote
newbie Posted June 18, 2005 Report Posted June 18, 2005 I really don't know what the big fuss is about. I applaud the two tier system. I don't know about waiting times for knee and hip replacements but for my meagre physio, I'm in a private clinic within a couple of days here in Alberta. My wife got an private MRI within a week. My father got his cataracts taken care of in the same period of time. Quote
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