Alberta New Democrats

[jimrahn]

So do you guys think the NDP will ever form the government in Alberta?

Why or why not?

[Cartman]

I do not see this happening for a long time if ever. In part, this is because Albertans do not really allow other parties to get a foothold; plurality is perceived as dissent and weakness. Many want a solid front to Ottawa. As well, it seems as though Albertans simply want smaller governments. Of course, all things change and perhaps when times get tough, people will change their minds. Whether the NDP will still exist is another matter.

[Hawk]

We dont want the cost of a lumbering, incompetent government constantly weighing us down is more like it. I dont understand the mentality of anyone that thinks by paying more and more people to do less and less we are progressing anywhere. It is a pointless circle of poverty. Just look at Sask.

[Cartman]

Since the NDP suggests more government, are you proposing the opposite? That is, the eradication of government?

Can you explain why the NDP wants more poverty since this is always the result? Is this possibly a plot of some sort?

[kimmy]

Albertans will be content with the status quo, as long as the status quo remains comfortable.

-k

[Black Dog]

We dont want the cost of a lumbering, incompetent government constantly weighing us down is more like it. I dont understand the mentality of anyone that thinks by paying more and more people to do less and less we are progressing anywhere. It is a pointless circle of poverty. Just look at Sask.

So why do Albertans continue to vote Tory, who deliver all those things and who are saved from utter poverty by record resource revenues?

[jimrahn]

So why do Albertans continue to vote Tory, who deliver all those things and who are saved from utter poverty by record resource revenues?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just before the last provincial election in ALberta, I asked a co-worker if she was going to vote Conservative or for another party. She said she liked the way the tories had eliminated the deficit, so I assumed she was voting tory.

After she left the room, another co-worker said to me, "Just because they got rid of the deficit doesn't mean I'm going to vote for them...with all that oil money, you could put a monkey in the premier's office and still have gotten rid of the deficit."

I think there's actually a great deal of dissatisfaction with the tory government in Alberta, but Albertans are scared if they change governments things will get worse before or instead of getting better.

Albertans need to know just exactly how much wealth the province has. If we were discussing any other province in Canada except Alberta, I'd be afraid or at least cautious in voting for the the NDP (or Liberals) , and that a change in government would probably equate into a tax increase, but given that we are discussing Alberta, I don't think that's necessarily the case.

If there's one thing that REALLY bugs me about the tories its' this:

Mr. Klein has bemoaned the fact that Alberta pays on average $2000.00 more to the federal government than it receives in federal government services.

I don't mind this in and of itself, because I think Alberta can well afford it and should use it to it's own advantage.

What I don't understand is why we are paying our own healthcare premiums in Alberta when other provinces don't charge healthcare premiums.

Why is the Alberta's provincial government in effect making me subsidize healthcare premiums in other provinces (so that people in other provinces don't have to pay them) when I have to pay them myself, despite living in Canada's richest province?

There has got to be some mismanagemant going on there for sure, so I don't agree with voting tory just because they claim to be good financial managers.

Sometimes I don't think they are.

Let's remember too that resource revenue was not an invention of the Alberta tories, but rather Social Credit.

One could argue the old Socred party was closer to the toriesm than the NDP are. Granted.

But the point is this: Let's not credit the Progressive Conservative Party of Alberta for something they can't realistically claim credit for.

Cheers!

[aj2004]

Ralph Klien should retire its been here to long.

[The_Rebirth]

Ralph Klien should retire its been here to long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Give it a couple of months.......

[Left for life]

Not in the next 50 to 100 years. Once oil is no longer the engine that drives the world Alberta will not be the rich province it currently is, plus you will have younger generations that get more liberal as time goes on I could see maybe several decades down the road, but not anytime soon.

[Hawk]

Oil is a resource that will always have a use, but yes it will someday become much much cheaper... but until then, we should be using that revenue to continue in developing Alberta's other industries and services.

As for Klein, he might not be perfect, nobody is. But at least he doesn't lie and try to convince us he is an angel, that and the fact his party hasn't screwed us over like some other governments *Looks at Trudeau*

If there was an actual good alternative, from a party with Alberta's (not the rest of Canada's) best interest at heart we would vote them in =) Currently that is Klein's government, and for some of us there is also the Seperatist party.

[Black Dog]

Oil is a resource that will always have a use, but yes it will someday become much much cheaper... but until then, we should be using that revenue to continue in developing Alberta's other industries and services.

Actually oil ain't getting any cheaper.

As for Klein, he might not be perfect, nobody is. But at least he doesn't lie and try to convince us he is an angel, that and the fact his party hasn't screwed us over like some other governments *Looks at Trudeau*

That's exactly what he does. Klein pushes policies that harm the "severely normal" Albertans under the guise of helping them (take electricity deregulation as a prime example).

If there was an actual good alternative, from a party with Alberta's (not the rest of Canada's) best interest at heart we would vote them in =) Currently that is Klein's government, and for some of us there is also the Seperatist party.

the problems with Alberta are institutional.

[Hawk]

Actually oil ain't getting any cheaper.

Yes it will, once it has been much more phased out of our everyday lives. Read my post AND the post I was refering to before replying please, your not helping the discussion.

That's exactly what he does. Klein pushes policies that harm the "severely normal" Albertans under the guise of helping them (take electricity deregulation as a prime example).

The fear of deregulation is a socialist fear, however capitalists and true supporters of mixed systems dont find it nearly so imposing. Your point is only relevant to those with the same ideology as you, and therefore should not have been used to try and convince me of... well, anything =p

the problems with Alberta are institutional.

What exactly are you talking about?

[Technocrat]

The fear of deregulation is a socialist fear, however capitalists and true supporters of mixed systems dont find it nearly so imposing.

Just ask anyone on the California power grid how well its working. Ohh yeah... in Ontario where energy derregulation was brought in by the Harris tories, there is now talk about the need for rolling blackouts. YAY for deregulation... it really works ohh so well :angry:

[Cartman]

The fear of deregulation is a socialist fear, however capitalists and true supporters of mixed systems dont find it nearly so imposing. Your point is only relevant to those with the same ideology as you

What!? Do you own a home? I doubt that anyone is happy about this particular policy change. Do you run a business? I was a manager for a meduim-sized business when they deregulated and I nearly fell on my head when I looked at how much it cut into profits. This was no small increase for businesses buddy.

[Black Dog]

Yes it will, once it has been much more phased out of our everyday lives. Read my post AND the post I was refering to before replying please, your not helping the discussion.

To be replaced with what? What will Alberta do if oil drops to $5 a barrel? Well, it doesn't matter because it won't happen. Oil supply is shrinking, demand is increasing. You don't have to have an economics degree to figure out what that means.

The fear of deregulation is a socialist fear, however capitalists and true supporters of mixed systems dont find it nearly so imposing. Your point is only relevant to those with the same ideology as you, and therefore should not have been used to try and convince me of... well, anything =p

You might want to try addressing the facts instead of your perceptions of what my beliefs are.

Deregulation was sold to Albertans on the premise of being cheaper. yet prices shot up (in some cases, tripling) to the point where the government had to institute its own Regulated Rate Option (RRO) for electricity consumers, which has been consistently cheaper than the rate soffered by the power companies. WHat's more is that deregulation, a major step, was undertaken with almost no public consultation.

What exactly are you talking about?

For starters, there's the outdated electoral system that distorts outcomes. In the 2004 election the Tories got 47 per cent of the vote, which somehow translated to 73 per cent of the seats: this in a election where only 45 per cent voted, which means that only 21% of eligible voters cast a ballot for the Klein Conservatives. Think on that a second.

[I Miss Trudeau]

The fear of deregulation is a socialist fear, however capitalists and true supporters of mixed systems dont find it nearly so imposing.

I'm duly chastised. I'll never attempt to sway you with facts or figures, Hawk.

[fellowtraveller]

Deregualtion has been a disaster for the Tories. That's why the govt has backed off bigtime in the last few months. It's always interesting to see how much the Alberta government is hated and demonised outside Alberta, yet wins majority after majority within the province.

I can't see the NDP winning anything in Alberta in the foreseeable future. Big government /big labour is not the answer to any sensible question.

[Hawk]

The fear of deregulation is a socialist fear, however capitalists and true supporters of mixed systems dont find it nearly so imposing.

Just ask anyone on the California power grid how well its working. Ohh yeah... in Ontario where energy derregulation was brought in by the Harris tories, there is now talk about the need for rolling blackouts. YAY for deregulation... it really works ohh so well :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You blame a rising need for electricity on the Tories? That is not very logical, so I suggest you don't pursue that.

The fear of deregulation is a socialist fear, however capitalists and true supporters of mixed systems dont find it nearly so imposing. Your point is only relevant to those with the same ideology as you

What!? Do you own a home? I doubt that anyone is happy about this particular policy change. Do you run a business? I was a manager for a meduim-sized business when they deregulated and I nearly fell on my head when I looked at how much it cut into profits. This was no small increase for businesses buddy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No I don't own a home, but I dont see what owning a house has to do with deregulation. If you are refering to utilities (like electricity, at least I guess that is what you are refering to) then I am still confused as to how that supports your argument. Are you saying deregulation is allowing companies to charge what their services are worth, and that is a bad thing? I dont believe in the sweat shop mentality, and I don't believe in the government being able to regulate everything. It doesn't work people, stop trying.

[Hawk]

To be replaced with what? What will Alberta do if oil drops to $5 a barrel? Well, it doesn't matter because it won't happen. Oil supply is shrinking, demand is increasing. You don't have to have an economics degree to figure out what that means.

Exactly, and Alberta has AT LEAST the economy and industry (other than oil-generated) of BC and/or Sask. We might not be filthy rich without oil, but we would be no worse off than BC. Add to that we will be able to spend this surplus oil money furthur developing our economies, cutting corporate taxes (thereby improving our industrial sector) and by the time the oil runs out we will still be miles ahead =)

You might want to try addressing the facts instead of your perceptions of what my beliefs are.

Deregulation was sold to Albertans on the premise of being cheaper. yet prices shot up (in some cases, tripling) to the point where the government had to institute its own Regulated Rate Option (RRO) for electricity consumers, which has been consistently cheaper than the rate soffered by the power companies. WHat's more is that deregulation, a major step, was undertaken with almost no public consultation.

Did the Tories get re-elected? Then obviously the majority is ok with it, or (like in Federal Politics) the majority are just too dam lazy to do anything about it.

The sad thing is, like I posted earlier, the more you regulate the more you discourage development in your province. Therefore you can either create a nanny-state or have higher costs of living, higher standard of living, surpluses, more freedoms, and more job opportunities

For starters, there's the outdated electoral system that distorts outcomes. In the 2004 election the Tories got 47 per cent of the vote, which somehow translated to 73 per cent of the seats: this in a election where only 45 per cent voted, which means that only 21% of eligible voters cast a ballot for the Klein Conservatives. Think on that a second.

So wait, your pissed at that.. yet the Liberals get just over 30% of the nations votes and is, in your opinion, ok to push through legislation and rule with a majority government? o.0

Yeah that outdated electoral system is kind of universal to Canada, hence why we should follow the USA model... you know, the one that works?

I'm duly chastised. I'll never attempt to sway you with facts or figures, Hawk.

True, as it seems you never need to rely on them yourself... being a socialist and all, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside it must be the right thing =)

Deregualtion has been a disaster for the Tories.  That's why the govt has backed off bigtime in the last few months.  It's always interesting to see how much the Alberta government is hated and demonised outside Alberta, yet wins majority after majority within the province.

I can't see the NDP winning anything in Alberta in the foreseeable future.  Big government /big labour is not the answer to any sensible question.

Its always interesting how much Alberta in general is hated and demonised by the rest of Canada, yet another reason why we shouldn't be part of this confederation.

Haha it was funny, last night (Canada day) me and my buddies went out to the fireworks and drinking etc... you know, Canada day stuff. But the entire evening I was randomly stopping and asking people if they were Albertan or Canadian first.

I only had 1 person say they were Canadian, that was a chick visiting here from BC.. and she was not at all into politics.

I guess you could say when that sort of thing happens on your national holiday, it shows that in Alberta there exists a powder keg right now.. all it will take is an actual leader and Seperatism will flare dangerously =p But heck, you guys dont want us around anyways, we are all just stupid hillbillies, right? =)

[mcqueen625]

Let's hope not, ever!

[CrazyCanuck]

Let's hope not, ever!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Imagine the hockey rivalry between the two countries. That alone is a good reason for seperation!

[Toro]

The NDP will never be elected in Alberta.

Simply because deregulation was botched doesn't mean its a bad thing. What it means is that deregulation was botched. There may be some industries that should not be de-regulated. But the experience of most of the world is that most of the time, deregulation works. It must be done intelligently however.

[mirror]

The NDP will never be elected in Alberta.

Simply because deregulation was botched doesn't mean its a bad thing.  What it means is that deregulation was botched.  There may be some industries that should not be de-regulated.  But the experience of most of the world is that most of the time, deregulation works.  It must be done intelligently however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose when you say deregulation works you might be referring to the operators or the investors. I'm not so sure one can say that it works well for the average consumer.

I'm thinking of a few examples such as the California power grid system, ICBC in BC, etc. I have also heard horror stories where families in undeveloped countries are paying 27% of their income for water alone now since water was privatized.

[Toro]

I suppose when you say deregulation works you might be referring to the operators or the investors. I'm not so sure one can say that it works well for the average consumer.

I'm thinking of a few examples such as the California power grid system, ICBC in BC, etc. I have also heard horror stories where families in undeveloped countries are paying 27% of their income for water alone now since water was privatized.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It depends what you are deregulating, how you are deregulating and the structure of the market. Deregulation in the British power market was successful for the consumer but lousy for investors because there was an overabundance of generational capacity. It failed in California because it wasn't really deregulation. That's not saying true deregulation would have worked in California, but companies, for example, could not enter long-term power contracts in some markets. In Texas, deregulation has been good for consumers. As for water, people like to point to a few examples of deregulation not working, but the main reason why private companies are invited into countries is because the countries do not have the capital to upgrade their own facilities. So the option is higher water prices, but at least there's water, as opposed to no water at all.

People like to point to power and water as examples of deregulation, but people forget the 1970s and 1980s when there was tremendous deregulation occcuring in a number of industries which has been enormously beneficial for the economy as a whole. Airlines is an example. Another is natural gas, which was regulated in, I think, 1991. Gas used to be burned off at the tip because it didn't make sense to use it as an energy source. Now it is becoming more ubiquitous.

Generally, de-regulation is a good thing because it sends market signals to those areas in need of capital investment. However, when it occurs, it must be done so intelligently.