Libs Open Up 11% Lead Over Cons (Leger, May 26/05)

[bigdude]

Voters in poll fear Tory agenda

BIG SAMPLE SIZE - more than 1,500 persons interviewed

National

Libs: 38%

Cons: 27%

NDP: 17%

Ontario

Libs: 46%

Cons: 29%

NDP: 19%

British Columbia

Libs: 47%

Cons: 26%

NDP: 22%

Quebec

Bloc: 62%

Libs: 24%

Do you think we will have an election now?

[cybercoma]

Yes, FEAR THE AGENDA!

There will be much goosestepping and jackboot lacing if they ever get into office.

[bigdude]

I chauk these nothing but disasterous poll results for the Conservatives to their hatred for anything Canadian, and/or their intense dislike of Canadian values.

Canadians like themselves, it is too bad Conservatives don't like Canadians.

If this keeps up the Conservatives are going to be considered in a similiar way the Bloc is in the rest of Canada.

[cybercoma]

I chauk these nothing but disasterous poll results for the Conservatives to their hatred for anything Canadian, and/or their intense dislike of Canadian values.

Canadians like themselves, it is too bad Conservatives don't like Canadians.

If this keeps up the Conservatives are going to be considered in a similiar way the Bloc is in the rest of Canada.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

horseshit. can you post anything more vacuous?

The NDP hate the freedoms of Canadians and wish to force socialism on our country which last I checked was democratic and consisted of a free market. Their intense hatred for business and anything else to do with any Canadian actually being able to make a substantial living for themselves and their family is reprehensible to say the least. I guess it's ok to steal as long as you're stealing from the rich and as long as you have a piece of paper that says it's the law.

Please tell me, why do the NDP wish to force an agenda on this country that has resulted in destroying states around the world? Why do they hate our freedoms and culture so much that they wish to tear apart everything hard working Canadians have worked for?

The NDPs hatred for Canadian values is so daunting that it's an insult to use NDP and values in the same sentence.

All of that nonsense above, same kind of horseshit on the other side of the coin you tossed when deciding to make that idiotic post.

[bigdude]

Actually the last time I checked Canada was a social democratic society.

These poll results speak for themselves as to what the average Canadian, which you obviously have a large disdain for, preferences are, and it sure NOT the Conservative party values, nor the values you espouse.

Careful your fangs are showing!

[cybercoma]

Actually the last time I checked Canada was a social democratic society.

These poll results speak for themselves as to what the average Canadian, which you obviously have a large disdain for, preferences are, and it sure NOT the Conservative party values, nor the values you espouse.

Careful your fangs are showing! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I have disdain for is someone who supports the NDP making igonrant comments like, "why do the conservatives HATE Canadians so much?" And even more stupid than that is the idea that Canadians don't support the Conservative Party when they stomped all over the NDP in all of those polls even after being reduced to 2 seats in the house after B.M.

[bigdude]

Let's live in today's world, eh pal!

The NDP in BC was reduced to 2 seats in 2001 and look at them now......

What's the big deal about that?

Anyway it is not me but the Canadian people who have spoken in this latest poll.

[Black Dog]

Cybercoma, your pronouincments about the NDP are completely fallacious. You piss and moan the second someone talks about the CPC's hidden agendam, yet continue to make sweeping, ignorant, factually unsound proouncments about the ND's. In short: liar liar, your pants are on fire.

And even more stupid than that is the idea that Canadians don't support the Conservative Party when they stomped all over the NDP in all of those polls even after being reduced to 2 seats in the house after B.M.

That was the P.C.'s, not the current batch of Reformatories.

Of course the reason the ND's have such trouble making headway is the neverending stream of unadulterated horseshit speweing from the likes of you that only serves to drive people to the Liberal party. Way to go.

[Riverwind]

The article says the following:

Part of the Conservatives' problem, the survey suggests, may have more to do with the number of Canadians, especially in Quebec and Ontario, who are mistrustful of Mr. Harper's stand on social issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage as well as his pro-U.S. positions.

If the conservatives want to be the NDP of the right which considers ideology more important than getting elected then the CPC does not need to change anything.

However, if I was a conservative supporter I would be calling my MP immediately and telling him to stop opposing SSM because SSM is a symbol of the conservatives so called 'hidden agenda'. No matter how often the CPC claims that they have moderate policies or how SSM is issue that divides Canadians it still makes the CPC look extreme to be the only party that opposes this issue. The CPC opposition to SSM makes the Liberal claim that the CPC plans to restrict abortion look credible even though the CPC policy platform says they have no such plans.

Conservatives need to ask themselves: is SSM so important that they are willing to risk yet another defeat over this? The Conservatives have already abandoned most of their economic principles by promising to keep every spending promise that the Liberals make - so the CPC cannot really claim that they do not want to abandon their principles to get power. So what gives? Why do the CPC supporters on this board not want to give up on SSM?

[willy]

Your interpretation of this poll is questionable.

This is just one poll at one point in time. The reason the Conservatives don't change after every poll is because they aren't Liberals.

If I was an advisor to the Conservatives, I would suggest that they move forward:

• Be consistent over time and rise above the name calling

• Focus on the insufficient policies of the government

• Don't use the house for daily Gomery Questions

• Wait and prepare for an election in the winter

• Start working face-to-face now and keep going until after we have an election

• Spend some time building the caucus as a team, share some of the leadership

The polls are volatile and for a little while don't pay much attention to them. There is a lag between events, action and public perception. Allow the next strategy to work for a while. We are at least 6 months from an election.

[Riverwind]

If I was an advisor to the Conservatives, I would suggest that they move forward:

• Be consistent over time and rise above the name calling

• Focus on the insufficient policies of the government

• Don't use the house for daily Gomery Questions

• Wait and prepare for an election in the winter

• Start working face-to-face now and keep going until after we have an election

• Spend some time building the caucus as a team, share some of the leadership

The polls are volatile and for a little while don't pay much attention to them. There is a lag between events, action and public perception. Allow the next strategy to work for a while. We are at least 6 months from an election.

A reasonable approach. A hypothetical question though: if could be shown that my assertion is correct and SSM is an Achilles heel for the CPC. Do you think the CPC would abandon SSM as an issue?

[willy]

Do you think the CPC would abandon SSM as an issue?

Quick answer NO.

The party has stated policy not to touch the abortion debate and with SSM the party has moved that all rights and privileges be extended to SS couples in legal unions. This is as far as the party can go without alienating a key base of supporters. This base group is already not comfortable with the moderation of the party and the buck stops with the word Marriage.

On the bright side this position in other polls was shown to enjoy the support of 54% of all Canadians.

[PatM]

I'm happy to see the Reform party taking a beating but...

1500 people are supposed to reflect the true feelings of all Canadians?

How many times have the polls been way off despite claims of being within +/-5% 19/20 times?

I believe that polls are more about directing opinion more than reflecting. After all, nobody wants to back a losing horse.

[Black Dog]

The party has stated policy not to touch the abortion debate and with SSM the party has moved that all rights and privileges be extended to SS couples in legal unions. This is as far as the party can go without alienating a key base of supporters. This base group is already not comfortable with the moderation of the party and the buck stops with the word Marriage.

On the bright side this position in other polls was shown to enjoy the support of 54% of all Canadians.

Obvioulsy people would support the least contenteous option, which is what the Cons are peddling. However, the Cons position is fundamentally untenable, as same sex marriage is already legal in most provinces and territories, a fact Con supporters constantly overlook. What will the Cons do to those thousands of same sex couples already married? Furthermore, given the courts' support for same sex marriage, how would the Cons resist a legal challenge to their position?

[willy]

Yes Black Dog, we all know you disagree with this position and it has been debated to death on this site. I was asked a question and I answered it.

I am no lawyer, are you. Each party has a number of people who are and for any legislation to go through the house it would have to stand up to legal scrutiny.

[Riverwind]

Do you think the CPC would abandon SSM as an issue?

Quick answer NO.

The party has stated policy not to touch the abortion debate and with SSM the party has moved that all rights and privileges be extended to SS couples in legal unions. This is as far as the party can go without alienating a key base of supporters. This base group is already not comfortable with the moderation of the party and the buck stops with the word Marriage.

That is unfortunate. Because that same key base of supporters is what so many Canadians are afraid of.

On the bright side this position in other polls was shown to enjoy the support of 54% of all Canadians.

Unfortunately, it is not the substance of that specific issue. I just think that pushing it makes it way too easy to attack the CPC for having a 'hidden' agenda.

[bigdude]

There is one area that I disagree with the Leger poll about.

The Conservatives are going nowhere with Harper as leader.

If they had chosen Stronach they might be the government now. I know these kind of comments grait them, but ain't it the truth, and the truth hurts sometimes!

I hope the Cons keep their opposition to same sex marriage as it ensures they will never be elected. What a bunch of bigoted dinasaurs - the angry white men's party.

[Black Dog]

Yes Black Dog, we all know you disagree with this position and it has been debated to death on this site.

We're not talking about SSM as a broad issue, but the CPC's stance on it. If the position is, as I maintain, unteneable, is it not disingeneuous for the Cons to put it forward?

I am no lawyer, are you. Each party has a number of people who are and for any legislation to go through the house it would have to stand up to legal scrutiny.

IANAL. But I am aware of the history of the SSM fights and the many court decisions regarding it. Those decisions (which have not been contested) reaffirm the federal government's authority over civil marriage (not civil unions, which are a provincial responsibility), as wells the unconstitutinality of the current definition of marriage. Given these realities, its entierly appropriate to question the CPC's stance. To me, it's disingenous and an indicator of why the Cons can't be trusted: basically, if they can't put forward an honest position on this one issue, what makes one think they will on any others?

[willy]

I just think that pushing it makes it way too easy to attack the CPC for having a 'hidden' agenda.

To me, it's disingenous and an indicator of why the Cons can't be trusted: basically, if they can't put forward an honest position on this one issue, what makes one think they will on any others?

How much clearer can one be.

The word marriage as was passed by the Liberals less than two years ago will continue to be one man and one woman.

The extension of civil rights to SS couples should and will be passed.

What is hidden? Is this your wedge. If it is, you get your vote. I get mine and elections will sort it out.

[Black Dog]

The word marriage as was passed by the Liberals less than two years ago will continue to be one man and one woman.

And, as recently as one year ago, the Supreme Court of Canada concurred with the decision of lower courts in Ontario and BC thatthat definition is unconstitutional.

The extension of civil rights to SS couples should and will be passed.

Civil unions, as I said, are provincial juridstiction. The feds are responsible for marriage. Why is that fact, which torpedos the basic premise of the Cons proposal, so difficult to grasp.

Is this your wedge. If it is, you get your vote. I get mine and elections will sort it out.

Not a wedge, but simply a demonstration of the Cons' willingness to sell voters a bill of goods by presenting a position that doesn't hold water.

[Riverwind]

What is hidden? Is this your wedge. If it is, you get your vote. I get mine and elections will sort it out.

The CPC position is good from the perspective of a liberal partisan. It is bad from the perspective of a Canadian would like to see the CPC grow beyond its Alberta roots.

[Bakunin]

what is sad with the liberal is that they are waiting the next election to start applying their program like the gay marriages, im sure they will push the issue till the next election to try to win another election on social issue....

[Riverwind]

what is sad with the liberal is that they are waiting the next election to start applying their program like the gay marriages, im sure they will push the issue till the next election to try to win another election on social issue....

Perhaps the Liberals and Conservatives will call a truce:

The Liberals will stop exaggerating the Conservatives hidden agenda

and the Conservatives will stop exaggerating the Liberal corruption problems.

Maybe the Pope will convert to Islam as well....

[RightWinger]

Perhaps the Liberals and Conservatives will call a truce:

The Liberals will stop exaggerating the Conservatives hidden agenda

and the Conservatives will stop exaggerating the Liberal corruption problems.

Maybe the Pope will convert to Islam as well....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How is it possible to exaggerate the level of corruption from the Liberals?

Does anyone have the name of Saddam Hussein's accountant?

Spoken like a true Liberal Sparhawk!

Open your eyes dude!

[takeanumber]

Two big problems with the Cons:

1. A total lack of empathy for anybody in society.

(See: The attitude that since some ppl abuse AISH, Welfare, then nobody should be able to get any help...a clear demonstration of a total lack of empathy.)

(See: Positions on Same Sex Marriage.)

(See: Veterans bill flip flop)

2. A tendency to characterize anybody who does not share their principles as being 'unprincipled'.

(See: The inability to see issues other than corruption as being important.)

(See: Positions on Same Sex Marriage.)

Canadians see through them.

*Coughs*

When are those wiretapping charges going to be laid against Grewal and key members of the CPC leadership?