Constitutional amendment

[The Terrible Sweal]

Have your say.

[last_niceguy]

I am not too sure about this one. On one hand the provincial governments do cause an massive amount of headaches in the Federal government. Programmes such as Healthcare and Education which were not considered important in 1867 when the powers were divided cannot be run by the higher Federal government because the provinces will not give them up. I wonder however, how much more headache would happen when there would be many many varying municiple governments crying to the Federal government as opposed to one provincial government.

I am not not sure about this one at all...

[August1991]

devolving more power to.... where? (Me?)

[fellowtraveller]

Much of the crisis in healthcare is specifically due to federal meddling in program responsibility and funding - areas that are provinical responsibilities. It's ridiculous that subordinate governments are forced to beg for money from the feds, money that comes from taxpayers and then is withheld for purely political issues.

Our country will never reach its full potential until each level of govt defines and minds its own business.

If you're going to trim anywhere-start at the top.

[Newfie Canadian]

It would never work, at least not with municipalities around here.

I would favour a sharing of power with entities akin to US state counties, that wouldn't be too big or too small.

[cybercoma]

Just what we need, programs like healthcare and education to become more detached from the communities they serve. No thanks.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Much of the crisis in healthcare is specifically due to federal meddling in program responsibility and funding ... 

I'm afraid I don't see the connection. Can you explain further?

It's ridiculous that subordinate governments are forced to beg for money from the feds, money that comes from taxpayers and then is withheld for purely political issues.

The provinces choose to accept federal funds. They are free not to.

[Guest eureka]

I would favour the partial removal of municipalities from provincial control and Charters for cities as governments subordinate to the federal givernment but with substantially increased jurisdiction.

I could not agree to the abolition of provinces since, I believe, the tensions of federalism are healthy when the powers are revised to put the national interest first.

Incidentally, the Provinces are not subordinate to the federal government. Each is sovereign in its own sphere. The problem is that too many powers have gone, through misinterpretation of the Constitution and deliberate distortion of its intent, to the provinces.

[Argus]

It's ridiculous that subordinate governments are forced to beg for money from the feds, money that comes from taxpayers and then is withheld for purely political issues.

The provinces choose to accept federal funds. They are free not to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are programs the provinces are required to provide, like health care, the provisions of which are governed by the Canada Health Act. The problem comes when the feds decide the provinces must supply a service, but then don't give them enough money to do it. We all know that the feds' share of health care costs has been shrinking, year by year for a long time. You could say that the health care crisis is directly attributable to this.

[fellowtraveller]

I'm afraid I don't see the connection. Can you explain further?

Here you go:

There are programs the provinces are required to provide, like health care, the provisions of which are governed by the Canada Health Act. The problem comes when the feds decide the provinces must supply a service, but then don't give them enough money to do it. We all know that the feds' share of health care costs has been shrinking, year by year for a long time. You could say that the health care crisis is directly attributable to this.

Unfortunately for provinces, there is no linkage between their responsibility for providing health care to citizens and their ability to raise funds for this purpose. They have little control over the bulk of the money, which is retained by the feds via income tax, then used a a cudgel for political purposes. It could be said that our 'surplus' in the last few years is partly attributable to money the federal govt has taxed its citizens, then refused to contribute adequately to improve their health.

Yet another reason I believe our federation is headed to a constitutional crisis, a big one.

[fellowtraveller]

Incidentally, the Provinces are not subordinate to the federal government. Each is sovereign in its own sphere. The problem is that too many powers have gone, through misinterpretation of the Constitution and deliberate distortion of its intent, to the provinces.

They are not subordinate in words only, in reality they are subordiante through the taxation system. If the feds control the money, our money, they control everything. Provinces can increase provincial taxes, but the taxpayers can only bear so muc. In any case, it is our money , not 'their ' money.

And the poster has it backwards entirely. Our Constitution describes the division of repsonsibilites, it is the federal government that continually meddles in this, not the provinces.

It's not about serving the citizens, it is centered on central power, central control. No government chould be in the control business, they should be in the business of serving their population. And much of the time - that means getting OUT of the way, not attempting to regulate every facet of our lives.

[Guest eureka]

That is simply not true, fellowtraveller. The information I have given so far should be enough to convince any except those who do not want to believe.

The Canadian Government does not control the money. It controls less, as a proportion of total government expenditures than almost every country in the world. I long ago, in one thread gave the comparisons with Switzerland and the US.

If you admit that is the case, as it unarguably is, then it follows that Canada is a highly decentralised country.

[Bakunin]

If one thing is not usefull in canada and should be removed or reorganized, its the federal government.

If you admit that is the case, as it unarguably is, then it follows that Canada is a highly decentralised country.

Either its a decentralized federation or a centralized confederation.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Unfortunately for provinces, there is no linkage between their responsibility for providing health care to citizens and their ability to raise funds for this purpose. 

The provinces have unlimited powers of direct taxation. I don't know how they could do better than 'unlimited'.

[The Terrible Sweal]

If one thing is not usefull in canada and should be removed or reorganized, its the federal government.

You mean the entity called Canada should be abolished, right?

[August1991]

You mean the entity called Canada should be abolished, right?

The "federal government" is not the same thing as "Canada" and the "Liberal Party of Canada" is something else entirely.

I don't think Bakunin had any plans to abolish "Canada", as if that were possible.

[kimmy]

How would this work out for Canadians who don't live in cities? Quite poorly, I would expect.

-k

[Bakunin]

If one thing is not usefull in canada and should be removed or reorganized, its the federal government.

You mean the entity called Canada should be abolished, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah we could call it the independant state of america

Seriously, what i hate about canada its not its name, its that its seems to be

an entity that manage compromise from all the province.

It should be based on cooperation and win-win situation... It should be a natural and friendly partnership.

Right now evry province hate each others and their is no friendship between them... How am i supposed to be proud to be canadian when it mean making compromise all the time and fighting and no friendship... You will tell me equalization payment ? what is the point in receiving equalization payment if it is to lose our freedom, to be treated like if we where vampires that its only role is to drain canada's blood...

[The Terrible Sweal]

You mean the entity called Canada should be abolished, right?

The "federal government" is not the same thing as "Canada" and the "Liberal Party of Canada" is something else entirely.

I don't think Bakunin had any plans to abolish "Canada", as if that were possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I don't recall refering to the Libarals, but as to the rest, can you make sense for me of the notion of a federal state without a federal governmant?