Immigrant Payments

[I Miss Trudeau]

You miss the point Trudeau. The reason for immigration is for the needs of the Provinces, not the needs of Pottawa to get votes. And since once the immigrant/refugee is released into a Province and the initial pittance is paid by Pottawa the taxpayers of said Province must pay the freight for evermore for said immigrant/refugee. Hence the immigration levels and needs should be set by the Province according to the numbers and skills needed in that Province not just Pottawa picking numbers and people willy nilly as they choose. This would also get rid of those who deal in human flesh the Immigration consultants. Remember Immigration is a priveledge and not a right. When said immigrant arrives in Canada they should not have voting rights at all until they have been here for 10 years and demonstrated that except in exceptional cases they have not been a burden on the tax payers of Canada. The extended family class were one good immigrant is selected and he then brings in uncles aunts brothers grandpa and cousins should end immediately most of these people do not honor their pledge to maintain their extended families. It should also be law that they recieve no free healthcare until they have paid taxes for at least 10 years and no free healthcare for any extended family members let them buy insurance. If they can't afford insurance they should not be here getting free healthcare at all.

Let me try again:

And do we then limit the mobility of Canadian citizens between provinces?

[caesar]

bbacon; grow up. Don't be making dumb insulting names for any of our government s or their members. It just shows your juvenile outlook. Immigration is a Federal concern. We need immigrants to keep this country running efficiently and supporting our population. People are not producing children as in previous generations.

When they become Canadians and pay taxes; they have just as much right as anyone else to vote and dtermine where they would like to see their money spent. Other than first nations people; we are all immigrants or off springs of immigrants. Many immigrants are better informed about our government system than are the locals.

By the way; healthcare is NOT free to anyone; it is part of what we recieve for the taxes we ALL pay.

[Iknowbest]

So do we have refugees that are terrorists in this country? Probably a few thousand. Do we have refugees that are criminals such as drug runners, rapists, murderers etc? Probably a few thousand. Do we have refugees that came to Canada so that they could illegally enter the United States? Probably a few thousand.

Argue facts not fiction or whatever suits your warped outlook.

Caeser : You are out of it! The Federal Government has admitted that we have a load of refugees who are terrorists, murderers, rapists and other criminals. Hell there is one big time crook who has been deported 5 times back to Jamaica and he continues to return to operate in Montreal and Toronto. He is in the drug trade.

We have had terrorists deported , one to Israel and another one to Tunisia. Thanks to your idiot Liberals it cost us taxpayers $225,00 to charter two luxury private jets to deport these two TERRORISTS! This happened last year. FACT ! Canada Customs did it! FACT !

Do YOU GET IT DUMMY?

There are thousands and thousands of these unaccounted for refugees in this country the majority of whom can and will pose a threat to the public.

Do YOU CARE? NO !

Hell you should be deported to North Korea or Iran, hey better yet Baghdad and allowed out only at night ..

[Argus]

The statements are vague and varied.

In sum, they they are clear. Quebec is given $3800 per immigrant to help resettle them, ie to help offset costs associated with immigration. Ontario, and presumably everyone else, only gets $800. Further, Quebec gets to choose which immgrants come there, and obviously they target French speakers. No one else has any choice nor is consulted.

This was all in the news again recently when Ontario asked for and was refused the same sweet deal as Quebec got.

No sweet Quebec deal for Ontario says Volpe

[bbacon]

Ceasar you are an idiot, the only way the Liberals maintain there advantage is via allowing immigrants to vote before they know the facts. Immigration costs the taxpayer Billions in resettlement, most of them are not a benefit immediately. Canada takes to many immigrants now as it is, most of the family class immigrants do not work or pay taxes so should not have the right to a vote, it used to take 10 years to get citizenship in Canada and they had to be welfare and criminal free years. That is what we should return to. And they should not have a vote until they have been here 10 years. As for mobilty of citizens don't talk so stupid. The only ones who would not be allowed to move would be non citizens. The immigrants of family class should not have rights to any healthcare unless they pay for it themselves. As far as your worn out argument that only natives have rights BS. The natives lost the war and their rights transferred to the dominant European culture read your history dummy. The natives possessed very little of the land at all and the european culture was a great benefit to them all. They were a stone age culture without horses or steel and at the time the Eurpeans came here their numbers were very small, they have done very well living off the new culture.

[kimmy]

People should stop insulting Caesar. Address the issue as Argus just did: by producing relevant facts without resorting to personal attacks.

-that is all.

-kimmy

[Guest eureka]

I wonder whether that will get through. Those two have not done much for the tone or quality of debate. I had been going to drop a somewhat weightier message on them but you have said it best.

[Iknowbest]

People should stop insulting Caesar. Address the issue as Argus just did: by producing relevant facts without resorting to personal attacks.

-that is all.

-kimmy

IF Caeser ever comes up with ONE relevant fact then yes we will but that bozoo is full of it because he is a LIberal and they lie and are corrupt. So stop this garbage and face the truth ok?

Caeser is full of it PERIOD !!!

[Fortunata]

bbacon wrote:

The natives lost the war and their rights transferred to the dominant European culture read your history dummy. The natives possessed very little of the land at all and the european culture was a great benefit to them all. They were a stone age culture without horses or steel and at the time the Eurpeans came here their numbers were very small, they have done very well living off the new culture.

Where on earth do you get this claptrap from? Aboriginals traded their land, which included all traditional grounds, to the English for treaty promises. The European culture almost decimated their numbers, it has done so to some of their language and other traditions, they lost their independence and pride and we are all paying the price of that now. They have done well? I suggest that we have done well living off of what they lost. Read your history man.

[caesar]

IF Caeser ever comes up with ONE relevant fact then yes we will but that bozoo is full of it because he is a LIberal and they lie and are corrupt. So stop this garbage and face the truth ok?

Caeser is full of it PERIOD !!!

You are an idiotic nitwit.

[Guest eureka]

I would suggest that all reasonable posters ignore those two - if they are two. I rather think it is one overgrown kid. One who is innocent of any acquaintance with facts and ignorant of etiquette or netiquette.

A particularly cowardly one, too.

[caesar]

bbacon wrote:

QUOTE 

The natives lost the war and their rights transferred to the dominant European culture read your history dummy. The natives possessed very little of the land at all and the european culture was a great benefit to them all. They were a stone age culture without horses or steel and at the time the Eurpeans came here their numbers were very small, they have done very well living off the new culture.

If this kind of sickening misinformation was addressed to the Jews; this would be called "Hate Literature" for sure. If it is not hate literature; it is very close to being so.

I guess all those diseases that wiped out the natives plus the introduced booze was a great benefit according to bacon. geeesh!!!!! That being said; I sure wish we had that ignore button.

[Argus]

So do we have refugees that are terrorists in this country? Probably a few thousand. Do we have refugees that are criminals such as drug runners, rapists, murderers etc? Probably a few thousand. Do we have refugees that came to Canada so that they could illegally enter the United States? Probably a few thousand.

Argue facts not fiction or whatever suits your warped outlook.

This can hardly be described as fiction. It is known that numerous immigrants and would-be immigrants to Canada are caught trying to illegally cross into the US. It is certainly known that numerous immigrants are criminals and supporters of terrorism.

[seabee]

bbacon wrote:

QUOTE 

The natives lost the war and their rights transferred to the dominant European culture read your history dummy. The natives possessed very little of the land at all and the european culture was a great benefit to them all. They were a stone age culture without horses or steel and at the time the Eurpeans came here their numbers were very small, they have done very well living off the new culture.

It takes a very warped mind to think that victims of genocidal acts are better off. Except, of course, if it is the mind of a genocidal anglo-supremacist, trying to justify its crimes.

Why not ask the Beotucks if they benefited from their English conquerors. Oops! I forgot. The "benefactors" hunted them all into extinction. But what a jolly good sport, isn't it?

By the way, the Amerindians in Canada were never conquered in combat; they were dispossessed, chased off their fertile land into areas that could barely sustain life, and individuals occasionally killed for sport. Aren't there a couple of such incidents before the courts in Western Canada?

[Argus]

Immigration is a Federal concern.  We need immigrants to keep this country running efficiently and supporting our population.  People are not producing children as in previous generations. 

There is considerable question regarding whether we need immigrants, and if so how many. Authorities on the question outside of government and outside the immigrant/ethnic lobby groups have been adamant that we need very few immigrants compared to what we are taking in.

When they become Canadians and pay taxes; they have just as much right as anyone else to vote and dtermine where they would like to see their money spent.

Unfortunately, many immigrants do not come from cultures with any tradition of democracy, and have poor instincts regarding community involvement and cooperation. If you ask the Sri Lanka community where we should spend money they'd probably support donating a billion or two to the Tamil Tigers to help their revolution, for example.

Other than first nations people; we are all immigrants or off springs of immigrants.

This is a tired cliche, and not true anyway. Everyone is an immigrant if you really want to stretch the concept that far, including natives. For that matter, so are all Europeans as they originally came from Africa.

Many immigrants are better informed about our government system than are the locals.

None that I've ever met.

[Iknowbest]

Well idiot boy Paul Martin a few years ago when he was Finance Minister went to a fund raising dinner in Scarborough Ontario. The RCMP and CSIS both warned him not to go to that dinner. He was the guest speaker.

He told both the RCMP and CSIS to F*** Off!

What was this about? Fundraising for the terrorist organization named the Tamil Tigers. The number of Tamil Tigers in Scarborough are 150,000. Is this vote buying? Is this support for a terrorist organization? The answer to both is YES.

SO THE LIBERALS UNDER PAUL MARTIN SUPPORT TERRORISM! FACT !

[Iknowbest]

I forgot one thing reference Scarborough and Paul the Quebecer Martin The Minister of Immigration a another Liberal better known as someone whose nose was six miles longer than pinocchios represented that riding for many years. Her husband had a job in the private sector. What did he do? He was a very very busy immigration lawyer.

No conflict of interest there and no vote buying and no corruption and no lying and no cheating and total concern for the security of Canadian Citizens. Barf !

Stay tuned folks I have story after story all factual about these lying corrupt buggers called Liberals but really all you have to do is change one letter in that name and then they would be called what they are. I worked for 7 PM's and their political parties and believe me I know what when on in the PMO, The Hill and in many ridings. A lot of it would make mature concerned taxpayers very ill. And it is the taxpayers who pay the bills not those jerks on Parliament Hill.

Disgusting? Worse than that !

[Argus]

bbacon wrote:

QUOTE 

The natives lost the war and their rights transferred to the dominant European culture read your history dummy. The natives possessed very little of the land at all and the european culture was a great benefit to them all. They were a stone age culture without horses or steel and at the time the Eurpeans came here their numbers were very small, they have done very well living off the new culture.

This is remarkably poor phrasing, and in general, not true. Some parts of native civilization in the Americas were fairly advanced as far as social rules and cooperation were concerned. They were behind in technology, true, but that isn't everything. I would suggest an Iroquois couple and their children probably lived as well as, and in many cases better than your average European peasant of that period. And invariably had more personal freedom and a better lifestyle than those in the crowded, filthy, disease infested cities of Europe. Furthermore, their numbers were drastically cut by the influx of Europeans, mainly through disease. It would be very, very hard to make a case that the Amerindians benefited from being conquered.

It takes a very warped mind to think that victims of genocidal acts are better off. Except, of course, if it is the mind of a genocidal anglo-supremacist, trying to justify its crimes.

Do not make the mistake of applying today's standards to centuries past. Conquering the weak was a general sport in that day and age, and the Amerindians were past masters at it, with precious little pity for their enemies.

[Argus]

Well idiot boy Paul Martin a few years ago when he was Finance Minister went to a fund raising dinner in Scarborough Ontario. The RCMP and CSIS both warned him not to go to that dinner. He was the guest speaker.

He told both the RCMP and CSIS to F*** Off!

What was this about? Fundraising for the terrorist organization named the Tamil Tigers. The number of Tamil Tigers in Scarborough are 150,000. Is this vote buying? Is this support for a terrorist organization? The answer to both is YES.

SO THE LIBERALS UNDER PAUL MARTIN SUPPORT TERRORISM! FACT !

It would be better to say they place little importance on fighting or curtailing terrorism, certainly less importance than on fund raising, and attracting Tamil voters in Toronto.

There was, in fact, recent testimony before the Senate committee by a couple of ex senior CSIS officers was scathing in its depiction of the crass political motivation behind exempting the Tamil Tigers.

BTW, the powers that be in this forum will not long accept your personal insults, not even those directed towards the Liberals Ie. "lieberals". You'll have to tone that down.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

I worked for 7 PM's and their political parties and believe me I know what when on in the PMO, The Hill and in many ridings

One thing I noticed about 'troll posters' is that they are always full of sh*t. Someone who has worked in the civil service since Trudeau's era(25-35 years) doesn't speak like this. I suggest no response is the best response.

[seabee]

. I would suggest an Iroquois couple and their children probably lived as well as, and in many cases better than your average European peasant of that period. And invariably had more personal freedom and a better lifestyle than those in the crowded, filthy, disease infested cities of Europe.. I would suggest an Iroquois couple and their children probably lived as well as, and in many cases better than your average European peasant of that period. And invariably had more personal freedom and a better lifestyle than those in the crowded, filthy, disease infested cities of Europe.

I don't know about the Iroquois, but as far as the Montagnais (Innu) and other Algonquian nations, this is definitely the case. No reason it shouldn't be the case with the Iroquoian nations. They were definitely infinitely more adapted to the "le Canada" environment than the French settler who would never have survived had it not been of the Indians. In fact, some of the early settlers "defected" to the Indians and became one of them. Many more lived with them for prolonged periods of time and embraced the Indian culture.

Throughout the French regime, the Amerindians were referred to as "les Sauvages", not to be translated by the English word "savages". At the time, the word "sauvage" meant "without restraints", i.e., free. As a noun, "Sauvages" was always written with a capital S, as is the rule for the name of nations. Many, if not most immigrants who came to settle in Acadia and in Canada did so in order to escape the overwhelming governance they were subjected to in France, and the Indian way of life was an inspiration (except for the Iroquois).

It would be very, very hard to make a case that the Amerindians benefited from being conquered.

As far as I can see, the only net benefit the Indians received was the introduction of iron tools. The settlers benefited a heck of a lot more.

Conquering the weak was a general sport in that day and age, and the Amerindians were past masters at it, with precious little pity for their enemies.

I tend to generally agree with that,but with reservations. In the 1604-1665 period, the settlements by the French in Acadia and Canada could have been easily wiped out by the Amerindians; they weren't. And even the Iroquois (.a.k.a Agniers a.k.a. Mohawks) alone could have done much, much more damage to the settlements than they actually did.

[seabee]

Do not make the mistake of applying today's standards to centuries past.

The biggest genocide ever occured less than a century ago.

In the last hundred years, many genocides have occurred or are occuring in the world.

In contemporary Canada, the "residential school" scandal ended only a couple of decades ago and can definitely be described as a genocide by United Nations standards and definitions.

[caesar]

In contemporary Canada, the "residential school" scandal ended only a couple of decades ago and can definitely be described as a genocide by United Nations standards and definitions.

Nonsense; they were badly abused not killed.

The USA's treatment of its natives was considered a genocide.

[caesar]

This can hardly be described as fiction. It is known that numerous immigrants and would-be immigrants to Canada are caught trying to illegally cross into the US. It is certainly known that numerous immigrants are criminals and supporters of terrorism.

I was more referring to his constant "probably" rather than arguing facts. It was a little too much guessing not facts.

[seabee]

QUOTE

In contemporary Canada, the "residential school" scandal ended only a couple of decades ago and can definitely be described as a genocide by United Nations standards and definitions.

Nonsense; they were badly abused not killed.

The United Nations' definition of genocide refers to the intentional extermination of a group, not only individual killings.

Convention  on the Prevention and Punishment of  the Crime of Genocide

Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the U.N. General Assembly on 9 December 1948.

Entry into force: 12 January 1951.

[...]

Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b  Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The "residential schools" program meets both conditions (b and (e) of the definition. It clearly was a genocide.