Is ITQ Quotas Morally Right?

[August1991]

Ceasar , the people of canada no longer own the fish , even fishermen that have fished them for generations don't own the fish. ( go try to catch one without paying the rich friends of goverment first)

Digby, you are angry that you have to pay for something and you think you should be able to take it for free.

I don't care who owns the fish (rich businessmen, mafia, the government, the Pope or Michael Jackson) as long as someone does. Once someone owns something, then it is costly to kill it. Cows are not a threatened species. Elephants and cod fish are.

Quotas are worth money; if a fisherman sold his quotas for a fast buck; that is his problem.

Caesar may have put a finger on the problem. I suspect the government gave quotas to fishermen for free. Then, fishermen sold the quotas for the cash.

Just put Digby Wharf into a search engine in case you think im making up the story about our wharf . It gets worse the more you study it.

Canadian taxpayers in Alberta and Ontario built a wharf. You are upset that you have to pay for its use.

I'm beginning to think that Harper was right. The Liberal Party really has destroyed the culture of the Maritimes.

There was a time, Digby, when Nova Scotians and Newfoundlanders didn't think about hand-outs, government grants, getting their share of the pie, who is ripping off whom, who knows whom. But you'd have to back at least 75 years to see it.

[Digby]

Again im being misquoted , PAying for use of the warfe is not the problem (even though former generations always had free use )

They gave the warfe to one of their liberal friends for 1 dollar ,then gave him 3,000,000 dollars to keep the warfe repaired .

He stole the 3 ,000,000 never spent any on repairs .

now the warfe is almost falling down hardly safe to use and hes telling the fisherman to come up with 6,000,000 dollars or else he is selling their warfe to some chinese people in china .

All this time the fishermen have been paying outrages wharfage and not saying a word 300,000 or more a year has been collected in wharfeage.None of the wharfeage goes back in the wharfe. Meanwhile we are taxed like crazy .

Now augest if your in agreement with this type of Canada . Id say this country is in hard shape.

In most cases the fishermen never sold the fish ,it was gifts to friends from goverment , just like our wharf was.

[Digby]

I want to comment on your statement that nova scotians and new foundlanders was different 75 years ago .

Maybe it was differnet in a lot of ways lets compare back a few years .

Price of a lobster licence in my generation 1,000,000 dollars

price 10 years ago = 2000 dollars

price to my grandfathers generation =.50 cents

wharfage in my fathers day = 0

now i have to pay 2000 a year or so

building a boat today =1,000,000

my fathers generation = about 1/3 to half was subsidised . The goverment would pay you 100,000 or more to build a boat. the boats only cost 200,000 .Today no subsidies for any thing in fishing . Its just pay ,pay pay.

some actually had brand new 65 footers built only oweing 60,000 to 70,000 . wide open fishing for any thing boat loads where landed . Some boats was paid for in 6 months . Nobody even thought of paying for fish to business men yet .

Also the ocean was full of fish . My grandfather could load his boat 1/2 mile from land . My father hardly ever went out side of 10 miles . I usally have to fish 100 miles off in very deep water . deeper then ever fished before .

In my grandfathers generation some actually fished with dynomite , just threw a stick in the water and watch some come to the surface .

Most the damage to the ocean was done by my fathers generation . they fished wide open no thought for tomorow . Small mesh gear any thing went .

The ITQ quota system is a result of this former generation getting too old to go to sea but still wanting the profits from our resources .

(i Think in the bible when it talks of Fathers eating the flesh of their children it means restricting their rights into your pocket with goverment)

Most the licences was held by fish buyers back a few years ago . these fish buyers mostly don't even buy fish now . As they get all the profit from them through ITQ quotas . so don't need to buy fish any more .

[The Terrible Sweal]

Digby, you are angry that you have to pay for something and you think you should be able to take it for free.

That's not it at all. He's angry at how the government established some who can charge for it and some who must pay for it.

I don't care who owns the fish (rich businessmen, mafia, the government, the Pope or Michael Jackson)

You should care, not who owns it, but how they own it. I thought you were in favor of the market, August. What has changed?

There was a time, Digby, when Nova Scotians and Newfoundlanders didn't think about hand-outs, government grants, getting their share of the pie, who is ripping off whom, who knows whom. 

I find it astonishing that you roll a legitimate concern for corruption into the same list as thinking about hand-outs. When did you begin to favor entrenched cronyism as a public policy stance?

[August1991]

Price of a lobster licence in my generation 1,000,000 dollars. price 10 years ago = 2000 dollars. price to my grandfathers generation =.50 cents

Also the ocean was full of fish . My grandfather could load his boat 1/2 mile from land . My father hardly ever went out side of 10 miles . I usally have to fish 100 miles off in very deep water .

Digby, as a fisherman, you must be a smart, practical man. I have no doubt you know exactly what's going on in those two quotes above.

building a boat today =1,000,000

my fathers generation = about 1/3 to half was subsidised . The goverment would pay you 100,000 or more to build a boat. the boats only cost 200,000 .

Here, I noticed you didn't say how much it cost your grandfather to have a boat. But I notice that you blame your father for the lack of fish.

IMV, the federal Liberal Party never introduced any conservation measures but they gave every soft loan possible for boats and gear. Radar, sonar, the works. No wonder there's no fish.

I'm no expert but I think the cod will come back.

I think Canada should unilaterally extend its economic zone to 300 miles to cover the tail and nose of the Grand Banks. This would eliminate all international disputes since foreign vessels wouldn't be there at all.

Map

We must negotiate with France and the US for borders, control and a single ITQ.

Cod eat different food ,mainly hering which are in trouble ,and shrimp which are heavily fished . I suspect with a shortage of food Cod turn to other sources of food . The ocean is full of hag fish ,if a cod eats one he is dead in one hour . With a shortage of hering and shrimp i think cod turn to hagfish for food and this is poison .

Now that's interesting! My understanding is that cod must survive to about age 6 years and become a certain length before they start to procreate well.

----

I don't care who owns the fish (rich businessmen, mafia, the government, the Pope or Michael Jackson)

You should care, not who owns it, but how they own it. I thought you were in favor of the market, August. What has changed?

What do you mean "how they own it"?

Markets require ownership transferrable among many players. History shows that the benefits of such cooperation are so great that the identity of the initial owner is irrelevant. Decide it randomly - but definitively - if need be.

God can decide where to put rainfall; but how to decide how best to use the rain?

[Digby]

To make a long story short we are in a Landlord Peasant System ,and i guess i'm to be a peasant for eternity .

What im questioning is how the Landlords got to be landlords (why THEM). I thought now days Canada was suppose to be in favour of all men equal . But im learning as i get older ,that the powers of Goverment have been used to make modern day slaves.

Why don't the goverment just keep going with this and like I say , give the roads to any body that helps them get elected . give all fresh water lakes away ,give all beaches away , give all parks away .

After Augest gets paying for every single thing he does to liberal friends he might start reliseing how wrong it is to just hand out property that belongs to all canadians to Supporters of Crooked Goverment.

I should get in the In crowd (just shut my mouth) I should put in for ownership of our deer ,and moose and other wildlife . Every time somebody wants to go hunting they could send me 300 dollars or so . Why Not Give Me Ownership of All our Wildlife? And the rest of you for eternity just pay me every time you want to hunt or kill a animal.

No augest codfish are not coming back . The goverment is not capable of manageing an ocean. They just base their figgures on dollar value .

The sharp increase in lobster licences is a sign of the times , Lobsters are the clean up crew . Never in history has their been lobsters in our ocean like now . As lobsters like to live of dead animals , The Itq System has really helped them as millions of lbs of cod have been discarded under this system. The ocean is filling full of scavengers , Scavengers in Canada are worth big money now . So nobody is trying to study the end result of changeing in fish like cod,haddock ,pollack for scavengers like lobsters and crabs. Its big money on the Short term and thats all goverment sees .

There has been an explosion of lobster and crab reproduction in our oceans . Why ? my guess is a shortage of herring , I beleave small herring ate the lobster and crab larvee out of the water . Now that herring are being wiped out every egg becomes a lobster . The more herring get scarce the more lies are told about the stock conditions ,as they need herring for lobster and crab bait . Herring seiners that use to work inshore less then a mile , now days often travel 100 miles off . We are loseing our herring and thats the oceans back bone .

Acurate history of marine resources is avoided by DFO as it would prove them incompetant . Isted all eyes are on dollars landed from the ocean. Cod Landings now mean nothing , its lobster that fills the pockets . This is completley A new thing but nobody cares or even looks at what it really means to our ocean.

Id say to be honest we have less then 10% the fish stocks that was in my grandfathers generations ocean.

DFO don't relise this ,or hide it. But lobsters and crabs are now reproduceing like never before . The ocean has been turned into a scavenger factory.

We are loseing our oceans , its been hid by the publics lust for scavengers , but nobody is looking at the end result of changing the oceans normal reproduction patterns.

I think the key to Cod not coming back is Hagfish the ocean is exploding in them now days . Its the species that DFO protects the most and my theory is its the one wipeing the cod out . As if a Cod eats one its dead in 1 hour . When herring and other food is Scarce I beleave they do eat them. I almost know im right , but When mentioning this to DFO the just lauph .

DFO is incompetant, But because they can spell better then fishermen like men . They manage our oceans .They don't even have to go look at an ocean , can stay right in their offices in ottawa and send a brainwashed scientist out 2-3 days a year.

[Digby]

ITQ is very wrong , But i know it can not be stopped .Its part of the recipe to stir up some end time troubles .

We have lost most of our men of Honour , Our wisemen . ect . The end time Count down has begun .

Isaiah 3 fortells that end time famines will come from goverment filling full of fools ,bad judges , ect.

Then it says the People shall be oppressed ,every one by an other . (ITQS )

[Digby]

I actually blame the Homosexuals in our country for all the Foolish things like ITQ quotas ,and Native rights issues .

How it works ?

They stacked our Courts and public offices with fool judges and fool beuracrates . Just so they could get things like GAY marraige through .

Now the result is Our law makers and judges are mostly fools and we are doomed !