Accountability...

[August1991]

Just try to name a minister who lost their job because of the egregiously mismanaged loans and grants affair, the billion-dollar gun registry overrun or, to date, the Quebec sponsorship scandal. Pierre Pettigrew left Human Resources before the loans mess surfaced and is now Minister of Foreign Affairs, no one ever accepted responsibility for the rifle horrors and, so far, only bit players are feeling the sponsorship pain.

Toronto Star Columnist

James Travers makes the case that ministers are no longer responsible or dump on others:

That said, the current system is, in practice, aberrant and serves politicians better than those who pay the bills. It gives ministers two escape routes: with the help of frequent cabinet shuffles, they can leave problems behind for their successors or, following a trend that accelerated after the infamous Al-Mashat affair in 1991, they can dump them on civil servants or, as Sgro demonstrated so ably last week, political staff.

In fact, bureaucrats are not held accountable either.

Whereas Conrad Black and Martha Stewart have to appear in court, government people at worst get named Ambassador somewhere.

In fact, Black and Stewart are the exception. The usual ignominy for corporate managers is bankruptcy or at least a collapsed share price. Think of the Bronfmans or the Eatons.

In the political realm, the true fault lies with voters. Canadian voters just re-elected the Liberals and in all likelihood, they'll give them a majority this year.

Who can blame ministers for denying any responsibility?

[Shakeyhands]

or even Kenneth Lay .....

and to be fair August, is there really a palatable alternative to the Liberal party?

[kimmy]

and to be fair August, is there really a palatable alternative to the Liberal party?

6 of 10 voters said "yes, there is," in the last election.

I think there's a stylistic difference in evidence. Chretien's way would certainly have been to shuffle individuals around, deny everything, give the press nothing to talk about, and wait for some shiny new bauble to distract them. Martin's decision to call a public inquiry was perhaps not the politically expedient way to do things, but in my view it was the right thing to do. It was a move worthy of the Paul Martin that was supposed to take Alberta by storm; it's very sad that we haven't seen more of that Paul Martin. And while it has failed to produce anything major in terms of holding anyone accountability, I haven't yet given up hope. There is still key testimony to come. And there have been some minor fraud charges laid... perhaps something more significant will come from those trials.

-kimmy

[Slavik44]

and to be fair August, is there really a palatable alternative to the Liberal party?

6 of 10 voters said "yes, there is," in the last election.

I think there's a stylistic difference in evidence. Chretien's way would certainly have been to shuffle individuals around, deny everything, give the press nothing to talk about, and wait for some shiny new bauble to distract them. Martin's decision to call a public inquiry was perhaps not the politically expedient way to do things, but in my view it was the right thing to do. It was a move worthy of the Paul Martin that was supposed to take Alberta by storm; it's very sad that we haven't seen more of that Paul Martin. And while it has failed to produce anything major in terms of holding anyone accountability, I haven't yet given up hope. There is still key testimony to come. And there have been some minor fraud charges laid... perhaps something more significant will come from those trials.

-kimmy

or perhaps 6/10 voters cast protest votes? I recall when lookign at some polls, tha Harper, Layton, and duceppe were all personally less popular then their parties amongst voters. Obviously you cannot draw something highly conclusive to that you can still understand that there really isn't an alternative.

[August1991]

and to be fair August, is there really a palatable alternative to the Liberal party?

In the mind of many Ontario voters, there is no alternative.

6 of 10 voters said "yes, there is," in the last election.

More like 3.6 of 10 chose the Liberals. If 4 of 10 choose the Liberals, they'll get a majority. (They'll get 10 more seats in Quebec and 10 more in Ontario.)

The current situation is the following:

The opposition has divided into a Quebec branch (BQ) and a western branch (CPC). The BQ has no intention of getting votes outside of Quebec and the CPC can't get votes outside of the West.

The last election was the worst case scenario for the Liberals: minority government and only 70 some odd seats in Ontario.

IOW, a palatable opposition is impossible. There are only so many "pan-Canadian" votes available (they are based in urban Ontario and non-Francophone Quebec) and the Liberals have them locked up.

If the CPC attempted to imitate the Liberals (sort of what Mulroney did), it wouldn't work. The CPC would lose its western support and/or probably not succeed in central Canada.

The Canadian electoral map is in a heck of a mess. It has collapsed down to regional parties. (One consequence is that the Liberal government is not accountable.)

I have the strong impression that many English Canadians have put their head in the sand about this. They simply do not want to face the plain facts.

[Guest eureka]

You overlook the reality of the current Canadian political situation where the Liberals are the second choice of many of the voters for the other parties.

That gives them an overwhelming lead in the pan Canadian scene. It is also a strong indication that a strong plurality of Canadians actually support Liberal principles except for a few issues close to their hearts that are represented by other parties.

That is democracy when the winning party more closely reflects the wishes of a broad spectrum of the population. It is also one of the things that could be lost under proportional representation.

[Newfie Canadian]

I can't remember the last time a minister fell on their sword, honourably.

You would think that in the era of mass communications and media outlets it would be easier to, for lack of a better term, force a minister into a position where he/she would have to take responsibility for their actions, inactions or statements.

Such has not been the case.

In regards to the Gomery Inquiry Kimmy, looks like Chrétien is trying to stall it by attacking Gomery himself, although the current Liberal regime is rejecting the thought of removing Gomery thereby stalling the inquiry. If that works, answers are stilll a long way off.

Without a breakthrough in Ontario, the CPC is doomed to lead a life as Her Majesty's Official Opposition.

Unless they can chip away at Liberal ridings in other areas like Atlantic Canada, pick up some seats in Ontario and totally destroy the Liberals out West, in which case they could probably get a shot at a solid minority government.

[Stoker]

The last election was the worst case scenario for the Liberals: minority government and only 70 some odd seats in Ontario.

IOW, a palatable opposition is impossible. There are only so many "pan-Canadian" votes available (they are based in urban Ontario and non-Francophone Quebec) and the Liberals have them locked up.

If the CPC attempted to imitate the Liberals (sort of what Mulroney did), it wouldn't work. The CPC would lose its western support and/or probably not succeed in central Canada.

The Canadian electoral map is in a heck of a mess. It has collapsed down to regional parties. (One consequence is that the Liberal government is not accountable.)

I have the strong impression that many English Canadians have put their head in the sand about this. They simply do not want to face the plain facts.

How would you fix the electoral map August? Thats if it could be fixed.........

I guess this trend leans towards the end of Confederation.......which as a manic Westerner, on four of the seven days of the week I'd welcome.

[August1991]

That gives them an overwhelming lead in the pan Canadian scene. It is also a strong indication that a strong plurality of Canadians actually support Liberal principles except for a few issues close to their hearts that are represented by other parties.

eureka, I put the words "pan-Canadian" in quotation marks to be ironic. There are ridings in Quebec and in western Canada that for the foreseeable future will never vote for what you refer to as "Liberal principles".

The Liberal Party is now the Central Canadian party and since central Canada has the most ridings, the Liberals will form the government.

Canada is no different than an African country with tribal votes.

Without a breakthrough in Ontario, the CPC is doomed to lead a life as Her Majesty's Official Opposition.

Unless they can chip away at Liberal ridings in other areas like Atlantic Canada, pick up some seats in Ontario and totally destroy the Liberals out West, in which case they could probably get a shot at a solid minority government.

Newf, that is the CPC's best case scenario. But it won't happen. Harper and the party are perceived as too western in Central Canada. (If Bernard Lord were leader, he too would be weighed down by the party.)

The fact of the matter is: we're going to have a Liberal government off into the future until something changes. That's the lesson I got from the past election. The Liberals have a "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

[Guest eureka]

August, that is a cross Canada situation. At this time, it is a "pan-Canadian" thing. Conservatism has lost ground everywhere and will remain in that condition until it becomes conservative again.

[Digby]

If i was an Albertan id support the local seperation party .

But im on the east coast so not much can be done except grin and take it.

This country needs to take a turn to the right its been left too long but we can't get it because ontario don't want a albertan taking the lead.

So Canada now leads the world in a decay of moral principles and on we go.

[Shakeyhands]

supposed 'decay of morals' from a neo-conservative Christian perspective traded against the same rights for all and access to the same services to all seems a good trade off to me... I understand that there is a country south of here that shares you idea, perhaps you should look into it (and I am not being sarcastic or facetious here) It would seem to me that if I were there, I would look into coming here.