Ladies Washroom

[RB]

Section 20(1) under the human rights code gives a right to a transgender person, that they should be treated consistently with the gender they present

I am very sensitive to these issues, but I mean in the ladies washroom that also includes showers, a male enters as a transvestite and I am expected to be ok with this. How are females suppose to identify this male is a transvestite immediately when “it” shows liberally they are a male.

First I have a problem as we can correctly identify this person is a male upon entry in the female washroom, and hence the violation of female privacy, a security breech but more importantly I feel the dignity of the female is indignantly betrayed and taken away when they have to cower and hide.

So the question is are we making compliance to accommodate a small group of people whist we risk away and violate the rights of a major of people

I mean a woman now have no say and cannot object to having an identifiable “male” person in the washroom OR is it that women have to smarten up and assume immediately there is no threat, no clear nor present danger, here comes a transgender person. Where are women rights and when do women get to object?

[Shakeyhands]

Hey great news... as a perv I need only purchase a wig!!!!

[Black Dog]

am very sensitive to these issues, but I mean in the ladies washroom that also includes showers, a male enters as a transvestite and I am expected to be ok with this. How are females suppose to identify this male is a transvestite immediately when “it” shows liberally they are a male.

Let's get the terminology straight:

"Tranvestite" is a term for "cross-dresser"; that is: someone who wears the clothing of another gender for any reason. Cross-dressers may have no desire or intention of adopting other behaviors or practices common to that gender, and generally does wish to undergo medical procedures to facilitate physical changes into a membe rof the opposing gender.

"Transgender", on the other hand, refers to non-identification with, or non-presentation as, the gender one was assigned at birth.

So when discussing the latter, lets not cheapen the discussion with the image of men in drag trying to use the ladies room to score a cheap thrill.

[Cartman]

Is it universal to have sex specific washrooms? I recall reading something to the effect that they were a Victorian construction amidst fears of adultery as women increasingly entered the workplace.

[August1991]

I think the issue concerns how is a "transgender" defined? At what point in the process is the person's sex changed?

This used to matter for marriage (women could only marry men) but now the issue, I guess, is moot.

Where else is gender now relevant other than washrooms and change rooms? Swimming pools? Pilate classes?

BTW, why are washrooms on airplanes (in economy or First Class), in private homes (even in corporate reception places) and on buses unisex? But washrooms in restaurants, for example, are separate?

Another question. Why do women take more time in the washroom than men?

Last question. Why don't architects allocate more space for women's washrooms than men's? (IOW, why is there always a queue for the women's room?)

Is it universal to have sex specific washrooms? I recall reading something to the effect that they were a Victorian construction amidst fears of adultery as women increasingly entered the workplace.

The Economist had an article about graffitti (typical washroom art) noting that in the 18th century, they were unisex. You can imagine how this affects washroom graffitti.

[caesar]

Is it universal to have sex specific washrooms? I recall reading something to the effect that they were a Victorian construction amidst fears of adultery as women increasingly entered the workplace.

I don't know but the men where I work better use the men's if they stand to p. Too much miss and/or splash. Stay out!!!!

[caesar]

I am very sensitive to these issues, but I mean in the ladies washroom that also includes showers, a male enters as a transvestite and I am expected to be ok with this. How are females suppose to identify this male is a transvestite immediately when “it” shows liberally they are a male.

I suppose you are referring to a gym. Do not the showers and toilets have doors or curtains. If this is to accomodate transgender; it would not cover transvestites which are generally more identifiable as being male.

Might be good for a giggle to dress as a male and check out the "equipment" in the men's room

[Cartman]

Might be good for a giggle to dress as a male and check out the "equipment" in the men's room

Female reporters already have this right in the US when interviewing NFL footbal players. It was quite an issue because male reporters were generally allowed to interview players in the locker rooms but women were not. Thus, male reporters got all the sports interviewing jobs. It was ultimately considered a sexist policy and women were eventually allowed in. I understand now that some female reporters feel taunted by these guys exposing themselves.

There was also that issue of the women who waited in line for a really long time and could not get into the female bathroom at a concert or something, so she went into the relatively empty male room. A guy got upset and the matter went to the courts where she received no punishment 'cuz she really had to go.

BTW, why are washrooms on airplanes (in economy or First Class), in private homes (even in corporate reception places) and on buses unisex? But washrooms in restaurants, for example, are separate?

Some hospitals offer unisex bathrooms too. Surrey Memorial, for example, has a few as well as separate ones.

I don't know but the men where I work better use the men's if they stand to p. Too much miss and/or splash. Stay out!!!!

I am not even gonna ask how you know this Caesar.

[RB]

Transsexual, transvestite, gender identity is a “transgender” culture.

The Canadian law has not define for us what is transgender and only recently added transgender to the Human Rights, but the law continues to see a Male and Female.

Out of the San Francisco Human Rights Commission 1994 the term "transgender" was adopted as an inclusive umbrella to include and not limit cross dressing, transvestites, pre/post operatives transsexuals, persons who perceived gender or anatomic sex conflict with their gender expression etc. so some newer meanings as the culture evolves and more detail meanings into what is "gender identity". (Yep that word gender identity I have a problem with it too - it is an artifical construct.)

Some transvestites report that they suffer from gender dysphoria. Also a transvestite may be a homo, bi or heterosexual person - they have their reasons to be socially located inside the women's washrooms

But my point was not even about transvestite, it was an objection that someone enters the bathroom because:

1) they are pretending to be a woman

2) it is a man

3) it enters the room as a woman

4) it is a woman diguise in a man's body

And no problem these folks can argue it is their right to be in the women's washroom, and because "transgender" is not define, women cannot disagree?

Look, people are either a male or female and only women should be entering the female washroom – it even has a universal symbol of a woman on the door.

If it is a unisex washroom and then you can anticipate either sex will enter

I believe the newer public buildings being constructed now has unisex washrooms, my university has some new buildings and they have the same.

[RB]

Female reporters already have this right in the US when interviewing NFL footbal players. It was quite an issue because male reporters were generally allowed to interview players in the locker rooms but women were not. Thus, male reporters got all the sports interviewing jobs. It was ultimately considered a sexist policy and women were eventually allowed in.

thats something, because in some professions like the lawyers de-robing is still gender separate and thats where all the networking and decisions get made

[Cartman]

I think the issue concerns how is a "transgender" defined? At what point in the process is the person's sex changed?

Good question. It must be when they make a legal identity change (BCert., license etc) or if they are in the process of change and can prove it because they are seeing a psychiatrist? It must be institutionally sanctioned in this case I assume. Otherwise, Shakey might carry out his plans, incognito.

[August1991]

It seems to me, Cartman, the issue is when a person can be arrested for being in the wrong place. (A man in the Woman's room or a woman in the Men's Room.)

So, when does a criminal offence occur?

Based on my posts above, I'm waiting for someone to sue the federal government for, first, discrimination in washroom design and second, access to men's washrooms.

IOW, why has no woman chosen the shorter men's line and gone to a men's cubicle? (Note to women: the men's washroom cubicles are usually free, and private except for leg view.)

[RB]

"why is there always a queue for the women's room?"

"Why do women take more time in the washroom than men?"

Men always get a little insecure when women group together. There is a couch imaginary and real in the washroom to take a break.

I have gone greater than several times into the men's washroom, it really did not make sense to join the long lines but also there was always a "Sue look out". The men are of course gentlmen, ladies first.

Also, I am not sure that men uaually mind a woman stumbling into their washroom is rare

Women mind because they are still not liberated enough and are mindful for example women are still private about having a menstrual cycle, and is hidden even from other women.