Street gangs

[YMS_1975]

On 6/22/2018 at 1:14 PM, Hates politicians said:

Why is it that when these gangs are caught with illegal guns and when theyre caught shooting people that they dont have their hands chopped off? If we did that then they would be given hooks for hands. It will be pretty difficult to hold a gun, never mind pull the trigger

Chop their hands off? This is Canada, not Saudi Arabia.  

[Hates politicians]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

Chop their hands off? This is Canada, not Saudi Arabia.  

So. Who cares? They won't be able to pick up a gun and fire it with A. No hands or B hooks for hands. They are nothing but garbage with no intentions of contributing to society and need to be removed permanently

[Hates politicians]

On 6/24/2018 at 12:53 PM, Argus said:

An interesting response. You have rapidly shifted gears from furiously denying there is any sort of statistical problem vis a vis black crime, to admitting this is the case with natives but then sarcastically demanding why anyone ought to be surprised.

I guess you just don't like natives as much as you like Blacks. Otherwise you'd be furiously denying there is a disproportionate amount of native crime too.

 

Criminals are criminals, period. Whining that there too many indians in jail is useless. Don't commit crimes and you won't go to jail. It's that simple

[YMS_1975]

30 minutes ago, Hates politicians said:

Criminals are criminals, period. Whining that there too many indians in jail is useless. Don't commit crimes and you won't go to jail. It's that simple

I agree with you there, but chopping off hands and/or the death penalty is where we part ways.

[cannuck]

5 hours ago, YMS_1975 said:

I agree with you there, but chopping off hands and/or the death penalty is where we part ways.

So, your solution is to send them to a country club to learn their criminal ways better and to make broader connections in their criminal network at the taxpayer's expense?    Yeah, that's going to fix the problem.

[YMS_1975]

1 minute ago, cannuck said:

So, your solution is to send them to a country club to learn their criminal ways better and to make broader connections in their criminal network at the taxpayer's expense?    Yeah, that's going to fix the problem.

If chopping off hands & the death penalty is your idea of justice, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're a Conservative, white male.

[cannuck]

6 minutes ago, YMS_1975 said:

If chopping off hands & the death penalty is your idea of justice, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're a Conservative, white male.

Ever been to KSA?   They really don't have much of a problem with street crime.  AND: they are not white, male conservatives.  You loonie lefties squeel with delight when you murder tens of thousands of children who haven't even been borne yet, but cry the blues if someone doesn't value the life of a black gang banger.

Edited November 17, 2018 by cannuck

[YMS_1975]

Just now, cannuck said:

Ever been to KSA?   They really don't have much of a problem with street crime.

Violence will not solve anything. You can either accept that, or you can let your delusions take control over you. Free will gives you the power to make that decision. What will deter crimes however, are very strict policies. Our laws are quite lax. If you want to solve this problem, start with pressuring lawmakers to fix their policies.

 

Sentences handed out for those guilty are a joke at best. But for some reason, I'm finding that certain people think capital punishment will somehow fix this problem. It most certainly will not. When a serious crime is committed and the perpetrator is killed as part of his sentence, the only ones who remember the crime are the perpetrators family, the victim & their family. Society quickly forgets and moves on to the next cause of the month.

But people who are thrown in prison and kept in prison (yes, at the tax dollars expense) are a constant reminder to those of us on the other side of those gates. Look at Paul Bernardo. We're still reading about him. People still talk about him. And when we remember those criminals & see that they're still doing time, it forces would-be criminals to think twice. Death is an easy out. Those who commit crimes don't really fear death. They live a fast life with little to no regard for consequence.

Lock them up & throw away the key, and then suddenly their peer group takes notice. But sensible policy will always lose to mob mentality. I guess that's just the way it is.

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

Violence will not solve anything. You can either accept that, or you can let your delusions take control over you. Free will gives you the power to make that decision. What will deter crimes however, are very strict policies. Our laws are quite lax. If you want to solve this problem, start with pressuring lawmakers to fix their policies.

 

Sentences handed out for those guilty are a joke at best. But for some reason, I'm finding that certain people think capital punishment will somehow fix this problem. It most certainly will not. When a serious crime is committed and the perpetrator is killed as part of his sentence, the only ones who remember the crime are the perpetrators family, the victim & their family. Society quickly forgets and moves on to the next cause of the month.

But people who are thrown in prison and kept in prison (yes, at the tax dollars expense) are a constant reminder to those of us on the other side of those gates. Look at Paul Bernardo. We're still reading about him. People still talk about him. And when we remember those criminals & see that they're still doing time, it forces would-be criminals to think twice. Death is an easy out. Those who commit crimes don't really fear death. They live a fast life with little to no regard for consequence.

Lock them up & throw away the key, and then suddenly their peer group takes notice. But sensible policy will always lose to mob mentality. I guess that's just the way it is.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and assume you don't really know any criminals (hard core types, not jay walkers)?

As you mention, these guys and gals "live a fast life with no regard for the consequence".  So you reading about Paul Bernardo is going to scare them into what? a life of ethics and productivity?  You think they are not afraid of death but terrified and scared straight by the thought of the country club?  Jail is not a deterrent, it is the school of crime.   THIS is where they go to learn their trade and recruit or be recruited into criminal associations.  It is a badge of honour to do Federal time. - and a privilege to further their career.

The rate of recividism rate for Federal offenders in Canada is about 45% IN THE FIRST YEAR.   It would be a hell of a lot higher if we caught and/or convicted more than one of the dozens committing serious crimes.  Guess what the rate is for dead criminals?

[YMS_1975]

1 minute ago, cannuck said:

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and assume you don't really know any criminals (hard core types, not jay walkers)?

As you mention, these guys and gals "live a fast life with no regard for the consequence".  So you reading about Paul Bernardo is going to scare them into what? a life of ethics and productivity?  You think they are not afraid of death but terrified and scared straight by the thought of the country club?  Jail is not a deterrent, it is the school of crime.   THIS is where they go to learn their trade and recruit or be recruited into criminal associations.  It is a badge of honour to do Federal time. - and a privilege to further their career.

The rate of recividism rate for Federal offenders in Canada is about 45% IN THE FIRST YEAR.   It would be a hell of a lot higher if we caught and/or convicted more than one of the dozens committing serious crimes.  Guess what the rate is for dead criminals?

I agree that many criminals do hone their skills while in the bin & that it's a "badge of honour". That much we can agree on. But I could never agree to ending a life; even that of the harshest criminal. I'm afraid we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

[cannuck]

4 minutes ago, YMS_1975 said:

I agree that many criminals do hone their skills while in the bin & that it's a "badge of honour". That much we can agree on. But I could never agree to ending a life; even that of the harshest criminal. I'm afraid we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

I am just pointing out some facts. 

I don't advocate killing every person who passes a counterfeit note or defrauds the taxman (in fact, the last one I would give a medal).   What I DO believe is that we need to make incarceration a genuine penalty for doing crime.   When you lock someone up they should have no contact with anyone except their jailer, their doctor and their priest/minister/rabi/imam/guru.  No parole, no association with other inmates, no colour TV,  no internet - just 100% time out to think about what they are going to do with their life when they get out.

Edited November 17, 2018 by cannuck

[YMS_1975]

Just now, cannuck said:

I don't advocate killing every person who passes a counterfeit note or defrauds the taxman (in fact, the last one I would give a medal).   What I DO believe is that we need to make incarceration a genuine penalty for doing crime.   When you lock someone up they should have no contact with anyone except their jailer, their doctor and their priest/minister/rabi/imam/guru.  No parole, no association with other inmates, no colour TV,  no internet - just 100% time out to think about what they are going to do with their life when they get out.

I think you hit the nail on the head from your second sentence to the end. But that first sentence is where we reach a fork in the road. I can never agree to ending a life. No circumstance(s) could make me feel otherwise. A former co-worker once challenged me on that and asked : What if he killed your wife, your kids, or all of them?

He didn't much care for my answer, but I then told him if he could find someone to administer a lie-detector test, he'd see I wasn't lying. I told him that if somebody killed my loved ones, I'd hate them from the bottom of my heart. I'd wish for their suffering. I'd wish they were made to feel the same amount of pain & suffering I'd be sentenced to when they took my loved ones away from me, but I still couldn't advocate taking a life. It's just so wrong. Nothing could ever justify taking another persons life. At least.....that's how I see it.

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

I think you hit the nail on the head from your second sentence to the end. But that first sentence is where we reach a fork in the road. I can never agree to ending a life. No circumstance(s) could make me feel otherwise. A former co-worker once challenged me on that and asked : What if he killed your wife, your kids, or all of them?

He didn't much care for my answer, but I then told him if he could find someone to administer a lie-detector test, he'd see I wasn't lying. I told him that if somebody killed my loved ones, I'd hate them from the bottom of my heart. I'd wish for their suffering. I'd wish they were made to feel the same amount of pain & suffering I'd be sentenced to when they took my loved ones away from me, but I still couldn't advocate taking a life. It's just so wrong. Nothing could ever justify taking another persons life. At least.....that's how I see it.

So, you oppose abortion on demand?

[YMS_1975]

Just now, cannuck said:

So, you oppose abortion on demand?

I don't oppose abortion. I don't see abortion in the same light. Yes, it is taking a life but it's before the baby has a chance to fully develop.

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

I don't oppose abortion. I don't see abortion in the same light. Yes, it is taking a life but it's before the baby has a chance to fully develop.

Right, a life that has developed to commit crime, harm and kill people, teach and encourage others to do the same is sacred.  A child who's only offence is to be a possible inconvenience to the mother does not deserve to live.

I really can not fathom what could drive the "logic" of a socialist mind.

[YMS_1975]

4 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Right, a life that has developed to commit crime, harm and kill people, teach and encourage others to do the same is sacred.  A child who's only offence is to be a possible inconvenience to the mother does not deserve to live. 

I really can not fathom what could drive the "logic" of a socialist mind.

That's a bit one-sided, don't you think? What about women who were raped? Don't you think a woman who was raped & was forced to carry that child to term might not love the child? What about all the mental trauma that child would endure because he/she eventually would learn they were the product of a malicious crime? How about the negative effects it would have on him/her?

What if there were serious health concerns for the mother, if the child was carried to term?

Comparing abortion to ending the life of a violent criminal is comparing apples to oranges.

Edited November 17, 2018 by YMS_1975

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

That's a bit one-sided, don't you think? What about women who were raped? Don't you think a woman who was raped & was forced to carry that child to term might not love the child? What about all the mental trauma that child would endure because he/she eventually would learn they were the product of a malicious crime? How about the negative effects it would have on him/her?

Comparing abortion to ending the life of a violent criminal is comparing apples to oranges.

So, the one in ten thousand pregnacies due to rape means we should condemn the other 999 to death?

You are so right.  It is apples to oranges.  One is a convicted criminal, the other is an innocent victim.

I guess I can see how socialists get elected: they use the same kind of logic in selecting their representatives.

[YMS_1975]

Just now, cannuck said:

So, the one in ten thousand pregnacies due to rape means we should condemn the other 999 to death?

You are so right.  It is apples to oranges.  One is a convicted criminal, the other is an innocent victim.

I guess I can see how socialists get elected: they use the same kind of logic in selecting their representatives.

You seem to be hung up on labels like "socialists". You do realize that this is merely my own personal opinion, right? I don't represent socialists, nor do I represent any political parties. I'm not sure where you're getting the "one in ten thousand pregnancies due to rape" number from, but rape happens to be very common (http://sacha.ca/resources/statistics). You also didn't address health concerns. In my previous post I only addressed health concerns for the mother. But what about the child? What if the child is born with a crippling disease? What if he/she can't function normally in society? What if he/she can't even walk or talk? What will happen to the child then? What if nobody can care for the child after mom & dad have passed away?

Abortion has several factors to consider. I still maintain it's not comparable to capital punishment.

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

You seem to be hung up on labels like "socialists". You do realize that this is merely my own personal opinion, right? I don't represent socialists, nor do I represent any political parties. I'm not sure where you're getting the "one in ten thousand pregnancies due to rape" number from, but rape happens to be very common (http://sacha.ca/resources/statistics). You also didn't address health concerns. In my previous post I only addressed health concerns for the mother. But what about the child? What if the child is born with a crippling disease? What if he/she can't function normally in society? What if he/she can't even walk or talk? What will happen to the child then? What if nobody can care for the child after mom & dad have passed away?

Abortion has several factors to consider. I still maintain it's not comparable to capital punishment.

It is the very definition of capital punishment - without any conviction by jury of peers.   That is better known as murder.

[YMS_1975]

5 minutes ago, cannuck said:

It is the very definition of capital punishment - without any conviction by jury of peers.   That is better known as murder.

Not sure where you got that definition of capital punishment from.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capital punishment

Regardless....choosing to end a life because that life committed crimes is wrong. Choosing to end a life ("planned parenthood" I believe is the term they use) because you want to be responsible is completely different.

Edited November 17, 2018 by YMS_1975

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

Not sure where you got that definition of capital punishment from.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capital punishment

Regardless....choosing to end a life because that life committed crimes is wrong. Choosing to end a life ("planned parenthood" I believe is the term they use) because you want to be responsible is completely different.

Being responsible means using birth control or abstinance.  Murdering your child is about as far away from "being responsible" as you can get.

[YMS_1975]

Just now, cannuck said:

Being responsible means using birth control or abstinance.  Murdering your child is about as far away from "being responsible" as you can get.

Tell that to a rape victim who became pregnant, or to a would-be mother who's just been told by her doctor that her child will be born with a terminal disease; that the child's life would be in constant suffering. I wonder how the mother in those cases could be "responsible". Or perhaps they're not entitled to have their voices heard.

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, YMS_1975 said:

Tell that to a rape victim who became pregnant, or to a would-be mother who's just been told by her doctor that her child will be born with a terminal disease; that the child's life would be in constant suffering. I wonder how the mother in those cases could be "responsible". Or perhaps they're not entitled to have their voices heard.

As seems to be your pattern: you present the outliers to justify the murder of hundreds of times more innocent vicitms.  They are two very different things, but to you, they are all wearing the gold star, so they should go straight to the gas chamber.

[YMS_1975]

5 minutes ago, cannuck said:

As seems to be your pattern: you present the outliers to justify the murder of hundreds of times more innocent vicitms.  They are two very different things, but to you, they are all wearing the gold star, so they should go straight to the gas chamber.

Not at all. Just because I'm pro-choice doesn't mean I'm advocating abortion. It just means I believe people should have a choice, because not everyone is dealing with the same set of circumstances.

A blanket solution for everyone doesn't work. Some pregnancies are due to poor planning (no contraceptives were used). Other pregnancies were the result of rape. Most pregnancies result in healthy babies (whether they were wanted or not). Some pregnancies result in horrible disease & a life of pain & suffering.

If you think everyone's story is the same then you're sadly mistaken.

[cannuck]

3 minutes ago, YMS_1975 said:

Not at all. Just because I'm pro-choice doesn't mean I'm advocating abortion. It just means I believe people should have a choice, because not everyone is dealing with the same set of circumstances.

A blanket solution for everyone doesn't work. Some pregnancies are due to poor planning (no contraceptives were used). Other pregnancies were the result of rape. Most pregnancies result in healthy babies (whether they were wanted or not). Some pregnancies result in horrible disease & a life of pain & suffering.

If you think everyone's story is the same then you're sadly mistaken.

So, if careless parents can simply kill an unwanted child, why can't I simply kill any criminal I find inconvenient?