Altai Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 This topic aims to reveal dictatorial moves of US. You can share any informations or logical conclusions based on informations in this topic. Please share or quote a link for the information you share or share or quote a link for the information that where your logical conclusions depends on. Please avoid any kind of trollings, avoid drealing topic in a way, avoid provocative moves. Thèse kind of posts will be deleted at the first opportunity. Thanks for your understanding and kindness. You can also start another topic for another country. "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 13, 2017 Author Report Posted December 13, 2017 Jordanian pilot taken into custody in NY Airport after he announces Jarusalem as the capital of Palestine during the flight from Jordan to US. http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/ucaktaki-kudus-anonsu-abdyi-korkuttu-2926837 "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
?Impact Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Altai said: Jordanian pilot taken into custody in NY Airport after he announces Jarusalem as the capital of Palestine during the flight from Jordan to US. Cool image on that website, too bad it is over a year old.
JamesHackerMP Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 The link is in Turkish. How can we share anything if the vast majority of us won't be able to understand it? "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
JamesHackerMP Posted December 13, 2017 Report Posted December 13, 2017 First, may I ask what you mean by "dictatorial moves by the US"? Are you speaking of internal US politics, or American international relations policy? "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Altai Posted December 14, 2017 Author Report Posted December 14, 2017 7 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: The link is in Turkish. How can we share anything if the vast majority of us won't be able to understand it? I searhed for an English link but I could not find anything. All the English links were related to a Jordanian pilot murdered by Deash. "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 14, 2017 Author Report Posted December 14, 2017 9 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said: First, may I ask what you mean by "dictatorial moves by the US"? Are you speaking of internal US politics, or American international relations policy? Anything includes injustice. "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 14, 2017 Author Report Posted December 14, 2017 11 hours ago, ?Impact said: Cool image on that website, too bad it is over a year old. So ??? "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
JamesHackerMP Posted December 16, 2017 Report Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) "Anything includes injustice". OK. So anything "unjust" is also "dictatorial"? Alexander Hamilton (Secretary of the Treasury for Pres. George Washington, co-author of The Federalist Papers) said that "if men were angels, government would not be necessary." And I think Voltaire said something to the effect of "government requires both shepherds and butchers." There seems to be this belief that a democratic government should automatically do what its people want, and perfectly protect their liberty. If this were true, then bills of rights and written constitutions would not be necessary. The fact of the matter is that, in a democracy, you get less infringement of rights than in a dictatorship--there is never a complete absence of infringement of liberties. Why? Because men and women--especially those in power--have the propensity to abuse their positions at the expense of others. Democracy simply minimizes this, it does not 100% eliminate it. That's why I have trouble with the assertion that the United States is a dictatorship of some sort because its government performs unjust actions. Is the US government unjust--even cruel--at times? Certainly. But on the whole, I wouldn't call it a dictatorship. America's far from perfect, I admit. But you can still say so out loud and not disappear in the middle of the night, never to be heard from again. It never ceases to amaze me how people go around thinking that a democracy can ever be some sort of perfectly just society. It just isn't true. OK, but that aside, what sort of dictatorial acts were you looking for? I agree that we can find plenty, but I need a starting point to google. Edited December 16, 2017 by JamesHackerMP "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Altai Posted December 16, 2017 Author Report Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, JamesHackerMP said: "Anything includes injustice". OK. So anything "unjust" is also "dictatorial"? Yeah, dicta is ruling people according to the interests of one person or a group of people. ( source: http://bit.ly/2CnvCr2). The aim of "democracy" is to prevent unjustice. (source: http://stanford.io/1YjnlLh) and therefore we can say that unjust moves are dictatorial. Democracy is also a dictatorship, because votes cannot always determine the facts. More people voting for 2x2=5 does not make it 5. That's why I have trouble with the assertion that the United States is a dictatorship of some sort because its government performs unjust actions. Is the US government unjust--even cruel--at times? Certainly. But on the whole, I wouldn't call it a dictatorship. America's far from perfect, I admit. But you can still say so out loud and not disappear in the middle of the night, never to be heard from again. Being able to say whatever you want alone does not mean that a govt is not a dictatorship. Govt is a whole. One person's mistake is the whole govt's mistake. "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
JamesHackerMP Posted December 17, 2017 Report Posted December 17, 2017 On 12/16/2017 at 10:18 AM, Altai said: Yeah, dicta is ruling people according to the interests of one person or a group of people. ( source: http://bit.ly/2CnvCr2). The aim of "democracy" is to prevent unjustice. (source: http://stanford.io/1YjnlLh) and therefore we can say that unjust moves are dictatorial. I have to disagree with that, in part but not in whole. Democracy might aim to prevent injustice--as you put it, and with which I agree--but it does not always succeed. Therefore saying that "unjust moves are dictatorial" misses the point that there is still a "democratic elite" in some democracies, which try to promote their interests above everyone else's. No one has invented a form of government that stops all injustice. Therefore, it's incorrect to call a government a dictatorship because it has done unjust things; because democracies do do unjust things. It's part of human nature. That's why Winston Churchill said (or is thought to have said) "democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the other ones that have been tried." The point of democracy is to minimize injustice. No one's invented a form of government yet that has successfully eliminated it yet. James Madison in his famous Federalist No. 10 spoke about "the violence of faction." What he was talking about was precisely that: elites governing for themselves. Today, we would call Madison's "faction" a special interest. His belief was that, in an extended republic, there are too many elites for any one of them to gain the upper hand for any extended period of time. (Oops.) On 12/16/2017 at 10:18 AM, Altai said: Democracy is also a dictatorship, because votes cannot always determine the facts. More people voting for 2x2=5 does not make it 5. I totally agree with this statement. People vote based on their perception, which doesn't always match up with the facts--in fact, it frequently doesn't match up with facts. This is one of the reasons that injustices occur in democracies. Many people vote out of ignorance, and it's impossible for anyone--even for a person who is well-informed--to be armed with all the facts before they check the box inside the voting booth. (For this reason we have republics instead of direct democracies.) And of course, it is human nature to not truly understand what it's like for someone else until you've walked a mile in his shoes. It's not possible to walk a mile in everyone else's shoes before going into the polling booth. On 12/16/2017 at 10:18 AM, Altai said: Being able to say whatever you want alone does not mean that a govt is not a dictatorship. I totally agree with this statement as well! In western democracies, libel or slander--especially when the slanderer is attempting to ruin you--is not legal. True, that in the USA, the first amendment protects free speech and press, but not actual libel. (Of course it's actually hard in the United States to stop someone libeling you once they've done it: you have to be able to prove the slanderer's intent in court. Otherwise the person libeling you can just claim "oops, i was wrong.") There's also the expression "you can't yell fire in a crowded theater." You certainly cannot. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have the right to start a stampede for the fire exit when there's no fire. On 12/16/2017 at 10:18 AM, Altai said: Govt is a whole. One person's mistake is the whole govt's mistake. Well, politicians do seem to have a special talent for shifting blame onto their colleagues. The proverb that seems most applicable would be "Victory has a thousand fathers; defeat is an orphan." That's why the framers of the American constitution created a one-man executive (he might have assistants, but they're not equal to him in authority): because if there were a council of chief executives they'd spend their entire time shifting blame onto each other. It's hard for a president to totally escape blame for some sort of screw-up: he's the most visible member of the regime and the most powerful, so the egg will land squarely on his face. (Hopefully.) Pretty good debate so far! "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
JamesHackerMP Posted December 17, 2017 Report Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) Despite my aversion to always using Wikipedia as a source, this article does have a good summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._10 I just realized Altai, I seem to have misinterpreted your statement about saying what you want does not mean the government is not a dictatorship. I think I read that wrong, sorry. I'd have to disagree with you then. If you can say what you want the government is not likely a dictatorship. People disappear in the middle of the night for saying what they want in a dictatorship, typically. Edited December 18, 2017 by JamesHackerMP "We're not above nature, Mr Hacker, we're part of it. Men are animals, too!" "I know that, I've just come from the House of Commons!" [Yes, Minister]
Altai Posted December 20, 2017 Author Report Posted December 20, 2017 Russia reverses the deleted documents in the laptop of the assassin of the Russian ambassador. They found out hundreds of documents of US backed Turkish terror organization FETO. Source: "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 20, 2017 Author Report Posted December 20, 2017 US official threaten the countries who votes opposite to US vote in UN meeting about Palestine. https://twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/943241599953309696?s=17 "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 20, 2017 Author Report Posted December 20, 2017 US govt trying to hide the number of civilians they murdered during so-called Mosul operation against ISIS. https://apnews.com/bbea7094fb954838a2fdc11278d65460/Vast-undercount-of-Mosul-dead:-9,000-civilians-paid-in-blood?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 21, 2017 Author Report Posted December 21, 2017 A Jewish guy who was sentenced to 27 years in prison is released by the president. http://bit.ly/2DiqMfT "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 26, 2017 Author Report Posted December 26, 2017 US announced that they are going to straiten budget spend for United Nations after UN disagrees with US. Source: http://bit.ly/2C8qrwl "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 27, 2017 Author Report Posted December 27, 2017 US spreading fake/false news to cause a war. Source: http://bit.ly/1YRkQCA "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 27, 2017 Author Report Posted December 27, 2017 US social media organ Twitter closed the account of Palestinian kid Ahed Tamimi who is a symbol person of Palestinian resistance against terrorism. There is no news about it in Western media agencies, so I put her account link below.http://bit.ly/2BI67ka "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 29, 2017 Author Report Posted December 29, 2017 People are jailed for years even without a trial. Source: http://bbc.in/2DwnJAb "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted December 30, 2017 Author Report Posted December 30, 2017 US social media companies Twitter and Facebook says they delete accounts on the requests of US and Israel govts. Source: https://theintercept.com/2017/12/30/facebook-says-it-is-deleting-accounts-at-the-direction-of-the-u-s-and-israeli-governments/ "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Posted January 10, 2018 Teacher detained for asking questions in a meeting. Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/09/louisiana-teacher-handcuffed-forcibly-after-asking-questions-at-board-meeting "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Posted January 11, 2018 US soldiers shooting at civilian vehicles in Afghanistan. Source: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/10/military-investigating-shooting-afghanistan-battlefield-video-276534 "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Posted January 12, 2018 Female patient kicked out from hospital for not being able to meet treatment fees. Source: https://www.davidwolfe.com/baltimore-hospital-patient-dumpting/ "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
Altai Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Posted January 16, 2018 People got arrested for helping the homeless people. Source: http://www.kusi.com/dozen-arrested-feeding-homeless-el-cajon/ "You cant ask people about their belief, its none of your business, its between them and their God but you have to ask them whether or not they need something or they have a problem to be solved." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror"We are not intended to conquer someone's lands but we want to conquer hearts." Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed The Conqueror
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