B.C. voters open to meditation, Christian prayer — but not indigenous ceremonies in public schools: poll

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎18 at 7:42 PM, Argus said:

.oN

No and no.

Because diversity destroys nations. There has never been a diverse nation state which survived without civil war. Most don't survive at all unless one group can successfully suppress the other group(s). Even in Europe, the most civilized place in the world, the only states which had major groupings of ethnic minorities and did not fully integrate them wound up engaged in terrorism and guerrilla warfare almost up to this day. Hell, you can see this even where the groups aren't particularly distinctive, such as the Scots and Irish who want out of the UK. You also see violent separatists and a history of guerrilla and terrorist warfare in France, Spain and other parts of Europe. The Czechs and Slovaks couldn't stay together, and Belgium is an absolute, nearly ungovernable mess.

With due respect diversity doesn't destroy nations, lack of loyalty does. You mix the two up. You assume that because one is diferent than another that automatically causes chaos and destruction of nations in your comments.

 

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

With due respect diversity doesn't destroy nations, lack of loyalty does. You mix the two up. You assume that because one is diferent than another that automatically causes chaos and destruction of nations in your comments.

Automatically, perhaps not. But it seems wherever there are large 'diverse' groups within a nation there is rivalry for power and resentment and some politicians will inevitably come along and stir that up. I don't personally know of a diverse nation which lives together in blissful friendship and mutual respect and cooperation. Yugoslavia managed it, with an iron fist. The moment that fist was withdrawn it tore itself apart in civil war. The Soviet Union managed it through the same means, and as soon as that power was relaxed parts of the country did their best to break away, some successfully, some not. Certainly Canada is NOT such a nation, as its French and English largely live separately, and there appears to be little loyalty to Canada on the part of the majority of its Francophones. We see endless fighting throughout Africa because different tribes have been placed within the same national boundaries. And, of course, the Shiites and Suunis fight each other throughout the Arab world wherever there are large groups of both within a single country. In Israel, there is constant friction between the Haradi and the rest, as well, of course, as between the Muslims and Jews. Where do diverse groups live together in harmony? There might be a place, but I guarantee you the number of countries where diversity has failed greatly exceeds the number where it has succeeded.

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎17 at 2:27 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1) I asked this first: "What does "in school" mean specifically?"

Then when taxme refused to clarify, for his own reasons, i asked specifically about private clubs.

2) Spares and lunch hour is fine with me.

It means during regular school hours. Spares and lunch hour as not is during school hours. Once public school closes for the day renting it out for various uses is a separate issue. What you are proposing is using the school during the regular school day and no its not fine because of practical reasons. In your world lunch rooms should be divided into tribes,  You see nothing wrong with that. You see nothing wrong with school class rooms during school hours being segregrated. I do.

What you propose is segregation of public schools based on religion, ethnicity, culture during school hours. That necessarily leads to tribalism and competition of tribes for the limited resources there are in such schools.

The reality is  when Muslim students demand a prayer room during school hours they don't give a damn about other religions-simply their own and what serves them.

Tell me. What if you have only one room and 7 different religions want it. Do the math. You don't get it. In the real world the Muslims who lobby for the prayer room want it every day at the same time and do not want to share it. You don't get it because you are not there at the school meetings where competing interests all fight for the same pie and you think the school can be everything for everyone at the same time.No. There are limits although in your world of entitlement for all there seem to be none.

You want a free for all with everyone engaging in tribal competition for the same public funds? Yah right. Does Trudeau look like he is treating all minorities equally? Well?

Your hero of let everyone be what everyone wants is selective as to which minorities he panders to, to get votes. He is just as much a bigot and racist as any right winger he thinks he is smugly superior to. He props so called refugees as trained monkeys for photo ops. He expresses disdain for Islamophobia he can't even define while remaining silent as the same Muslims demanding protection from Islamophobia spew out anti Semitism in the very mosques they say are under attack.

What world do you live in? What world is it where you think public services have no limits to accommodation and are not co erced and corrupted by interest groups?

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

1) It means during regular school hours. Spares and lunch hour as not is during school hours. Once public school closes for the day renting it out for various uses is a separate issue. What you are proposing is using the school during the regular school day and no its not fine because of practical reasons. In your world lunch rooms should be divided into tribes,  You see nothing wrong with that. You see nothing wrong with school class rooms during school hours being segregrated. I do.

What you propose is segregation of public schools based on religion, ethnicity, culture during school hours. That necessarily leads to tribalism and competition of tribes for the limited resources there are in such schools.

2) The reality is  when Muslim students demand a prayer room during school hours they don't give a damn about other religions-simply their own and what serves them.

3) Tell me. What if you have only one room and 7 different religions want it. Do the math. You don't get it. In the real world the Muslims who lobby for the prayer room want it every day at the same time and do not want to share it. You don't get it because you are not there at the school meetings where competing interests all fight for the same pie and you think the school can be everything for everyone at the same time.No. There are limits although in your world of entitlement for all there seem to be none.

 

1) I don't see how 'rooms' can be segregated.  People can but not rooms.  If there are rooms available during the day then make them available if they're needed.  

2)  I'm sure they don't expect classes to be cancelled, so yes there is a reasonable limit here.

3) Your situation is hypothetical.  Please don't hyperbolize my point of view into extremism.  The school administration has to manage this, and yes it's political but it is not an impossible task.  Dialogue is necessary and hyperbole has no place in such sensitive discussions.

The rest of your post was a kind of rant so I left it alone.

 

 

 

[Rue]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) I don't see how 'rooms' can be segregated.  People can but not rooms.  If there are rooms available during the day then make them available if they're needed.  

2)  I'm sure they don't expect classes to be cancelled, so yes there is a reasonable limit here.

3) Your situation is hypothetical.  Please don't hyperbolize my point of view into extremism.  The school administration has to manage this, and yes it's political but it is not an impossible task.  Dialogue is necessary and hyperbole has no place in such sensitive discussions.

The rest of your post was a kind of rant so I left it alone.

 

 

 

Your post is full of it. You propose segregating people during school hours for religious reasons or cultural reasons, etc.

My comments were not a rant they were directly on point as to how people like you want to cater to specific interest groups but pretend its not bigoted or se;lective. Of course it is by its very nature. Your attempt to engage me in nonsense about segregating rooms is par for the courser with you. Its the people you are putting in the room s I was talking about as you were well aware. Kind of a rant. Why because you disagree with it? I am fed up with people thinking they can use public funding to cater to specia; interests and disguise those special interests as anything but special.

[Rue]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

Automatically, perhaps not. But it seems wherever there are large 'diverse' groups within a nation there is rivalry for power and resentment and some politicians will inevitably come along and stir that up. I don't personally know of a diverse nation which lives together in blissful friendship and mutual respect and cooperation. Yugoslavia managed it, with an iron fist. The moment that fist was withdrawn it tore itself apart in civil war. The Soviet Union managed it through the same means, and as soon as that power was relaxed parts of the country did their best to break away, some successfully, some not. Certainly Canada is NOT such a nation, as its French and English largely live separately, and there appears to be little loyalty to Canada on the part of the majority of its Francophones. We see endless fighting throughout Africa because different tribes have been placed within the same national boundaries. And, of course, the Shiites and Suunis fight each other throughout the Arab world wherever there are large groups of both within a single country. In Israel, there is constant friction between the Haradi and the rest, as well, of course, as between the Muslims and Jews. Where do diverse groups live together in harmony? There might be a place, but I guarantee you the number of countries where diversity has failed greatly exceeds the number where it has succeeded.

When tribalism does not unify and put the country first then I agree with you of course. If it puts the country and a unified neutral vision first then I got problems with the keesters who want to put their puff pastries before basic bread. What you are really referring to and you clarified thank you and in that case I agree with are that  it are people put their own identities before the national one yes they can screw up a country as you say.. That's a recipe for special interest fractured crap we see in this country today with people bending over backaords to accommodate certain minorities but never other minorities.

You saw my response to Mr. Harder. No I am not in agreement with anyone who puts their difference before the nation's common identity and good. I don't agree with segregation of any kind and liberal guilt posed as cultural tolerance-its not its justification to be bigoted for certain groups at the expense of others-pure and simple.

The crap you refer to and there is no shortage of it are people who put their own tribes' interests first and to hell with everyone else. Never yet saw a Muslim country accommodate any non Muslim the way the Jewish state does non Jews. Its why I find all the Muslim states who are anti Israel a bunch of two faced liars using Palestinians to justify their anti semitic bigotry. As for Canada, I will never fault it for its tolerance. I blame specific individual citizens of Canada putting their own narrow interests first. I think most Canadians do not. However  we give people the message right off the boat they are entitled to whatever they want instantaneously. First message we give them is break the law and we let you jump the line and get better benefits in Canada not only than those hard working honest people lining up to get in but also genuine refugees not to mention Canadian citizens like me. What a slap in our faces. What a slap to see this sob of an Immigration Minister hiss back at the press with contempt that he doesn't have to do a thing about the flood of illegals swarming into this nation. Gee who saw that coming. I mean come on, he's so neutral and able to logically consider the issue. He has no emotional attachment to his portfoilio. Oh but I am ranting because I call a spade a spade or in this case an Immigration Minister.

Let's face it. We are living in a country with a spoiled rich boy who got whatever he wants in life an feels guilty about it so engages in this skitzoid  attempt to act out his superiority and narcissism at the same time as acting as if he cares about others.

Look at this collosal blood clot some  call Justin Trudeau. He says what? Oh his rich family was able to use its privilege to get his late brother off a pot charge. So this is why he wants to legalize pot? What because he feels guilty his rich privileged status got his late brother off a pot charge? That's his impetus? What drivel. Oh I get it-he feels guilty and this produces his visions? Give me a bloody break.  Yah see he can bring in some brown babies and pose with them, throw some winter coats at them, and presto, his guilt over being rich and sheltered is assuaged? That is his vision, use the office of Prime Minister to indulge his guilt feelings?

That's all the multi-culturalism of Trudeau is. Its a rich boy, a rich spoiled sheltered  sexually confused emotional cripple  acting out this sordid play of wanting to make Mama and Papa be happy.. He's as unstable as his mother and as arrogant and  upper crust rich boy as his Papa..

This country should be built on a vision of what we stand for, not what we are ashamed of  or feel guilty of being. 

Oh but wait its a rant. No its an opinion. I am fed up with self entitled individuals feeling guilty seeking to use the government and its services as psychotherapy for their sexual confusion. That in one sentence summarizes Trudeau and his disaster of an immigration policy let alone concept as to what multi-culturalism is. I grew up with plenty of Justin's with their noses wedged in the air thinking everyone should love them. Snot faced pukes who would never in a million years be caught dead with the masses other than a quick peek through Papa's Mercedez Benz window.

Show me some fool suggesting we accommodate in public schools anyone who demands it and I will show you some sheltered privileged fellow mistaking his private school life with the real world where Mama and Papa don't buy the uniform and dictate the curriculum and laws based on privilege not merit.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Rue

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, Rue said:

1) Your post is full of it. You propose segregating people during school hours for religious reasons or cultural reasons, etc.

2) My comments were not a rant they were directly on point as to how people like you want to cater to specific interest groups but pretend its not bigoted or se;lective. Of course it is by its very nature.

3) Your attempt to engage me in nonsense about segregating rooms is par for the courser with you. Its the people you are putting in the room s I was talking about as you were well aware. Kind of a rant. Why because you disagree with it? I am fed up with people thinking they can use public funding to cater to specia; interests and disguise those special interests as anything but special.

1) How so ?  Are students allowed to leave class to pray ?  I don't think they should be.

2) Don't worry about people like me.  'Cater' is a loaded word, and the only think worse than a loaded word is a loaded caterer.  I believe in reasonable accommodation and that is decided by individuals.  

3) I thought we were talking about religious activities outside class hours - was I wrong ?

Here's where you lost me: " they don't give a damn about other religion"... I don't need to hear that when I'm looking at the details.  If you have any then provide them.

Prayer should be outside school time.  If a student has a spare, then sure go and pray.  If there's a room that they can use for it then fine.  That's reasonable to me and I don't need to make comments about you or others "not giving a damn" I just need to know the logistics of what we're talking about.

[Rue]

Not during school hours. Spares and lunch are regular school hours.

If you need to pray leave the school and go to a private school. You want a public school pray before or after school.

You can't adjust then tough. Enough with this trying to impose religion in public schools during school hours. It aint the time or the place.

 

[Rue]

I am telling you its only a matter of time until children demand bringing in musk ox testacles and penises to class to pray during spare hours. I want musk ox to feel safe in Canada damn it.

As for beavers well certain cultures are already mutilating them as part of their religious beliefs. Why the phack should anyone accommodate that.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎25 at 10:35 AM, Rue said:

It means during regular school hours. Spares and lunch hour are regular  school hours. Once public school closes for the day renting it out for various uses is a separate issue. What you are proposing is using the school during the regular school day and no its not fine because of practical reasons. In your world lunch rooms should be divided into tribes,  You see nothing wrong with that. You see nothing wrong with school class rooms during school hours being segregrated. I do.

What you propose is segregation of public schools based on religion, ethnicity, culture during school hours. That necessarily leads to tribalism and competition of tribes for the limited resources there are in such schools.

The reality is  when Muslim students demand a prayer room during school hours they don't give a damn about other religions-simply their own and what serves them.

Tell me. What if you have only one room and 7 different religions want it. Do the math. You don't get it. In the real world the Muslims who lobby for the prayer room want it every day at the same time and do not want to share it. You don't get it because you are not there at the school meetings where competing interests all fight for the same pie and you think the school can be everything for everyone at the same time.No. There are limits although in your world of entitlement for all there seem to be none.

You want a free for all with everyone engaging in tribal competition for the same public funds? Yah right. Does Trudeau look like he is treating all minorities equally? Well?

Your hero of let everyone be what everyone wants is selective as to which minorities he panders to, to get votes. He is just as much a bigot and racist as any right winger he thinks he is smugly superior to. He props so called refugees as trained monkeys for photo ops. He expresses disdain for Islamophobia he can't even define while remaining silent as the same Muslims demanding protection from Islamophobia spew out anti Semitism in the very mosques they say are under attack.

What world do you live in? What world is it where you think public services have no limits to accommodation and are not co erced and corrupted by interest groups?

 

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

I am telling you its only a matter of time until children demand bringing in musk ox testacles and penises to class to pray during spare hours.

C'mon, that's just plain nuts.

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, Rue said:

1) Not during school hours. Spares and lunch are regular school hours.

2) If you need to pray leave the school and go to a private school. You want a public school pray before or after school.

3) You can't adjust then tough. Enough with this trying to impose religion in public schools during school hours. It aint the time or the place.

 

1) I disagree.  I don't see a problem with being in school hours as long as it's off-class hours.

2) It's impractical and puts too much hardship on religious students IMO.  If it can be accommodated, I don't see a problem.  Otherwise, the government is effectively discourating religious freedom IMO.  It's fine to say "go to a private school" but then you are making religion something you need to pay for.  It's personal expression, so it shouldn't have to cost you.

3) I don't see how 'imposing' can be used here when all of this is voluntary.