Benz Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 On 2016-12-02 at 5:53 PM, ?Impact said: One of my pet peeves is the use of the dash '-' instead of a comma to separate a list of weekdays. There may be no parking on this side of the road on Mar-Jeu which means Tuesday & Thursday, not Tuesday thru Thursday. The french and the english are not using dashes, commas and dots the same way. The subtle differences can be confusing. Here is an example of english vs french. 1,234.56$ => $1 234,56 You have a good suggestion. We already use the dash for the covering hours. 9h-21h. But for days, we do Lun. au Jeu. instead of Lun-Jeu. I think the cities were fed up to see contestations at the court, so now they make it more explicit for continuous days but, still confusing when for selected days. A comma or the word ET would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benz Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 On 2016-12-02 at 10:41 PM, Army Guy said: You got anger issues, over something that you and I or for that matter anyone else on this board does not have the ability to fix......your preaching to the wrong crowd....but to you anyone that is English is the right crowd....when all your doing is setting everyone on the defensive......all of us here are concerned about what is happening in our own worlds....not 1000 kms away...... My impression is your angry.....and your expressing this angry at a crowd who, can not do anything about it...... French is dying.....here in NB they are having issues filling French only schools, because the French are no longer fluent in French.....and the numbers decline every year.....and it is not a Quebecois thing.....I mean really almost all the French from Quebec I've talked to don't even consider the Acadians French..... most of the time it is to enlarge French speaking numbers....but really Acadians don't speak French it is half French, half English, and half Maritimer....they don't fly the flue de lie.....they fly the Acadian flag or flag from France.... WOW, once again with PEI, the smallest province in the nation, also one of the poorest.....where tax dollars only go so far, as they do not have the tax dollars Quebec has nor the population......SO while now in 2009 they have opened a French school, another WOW......to preserve the French language in a province that is 95% English.....now I bring this up because French is not the primary language nor is it the secondary language.....if you want a job in PEI you have to speak English.....not French, Chinese, Japanese ....but English.....just like in Quebec one has to speak French, or you don't work......If the Acadians wanted to preserve their French....they can home school their children, or move.....but at the end of the day, if they want to work in PEI, they learn English.........end of story.....now in PEI there is not much for work, one plants potatoes, fishes, or works at the fries factory....Not many NASA scientist come from PEI......or for that matter the entire maritimes.....SO while you feel slighted that it has taken 2 centuries to get a French school....it has come at a cost of something else......kind of hallow victory.....Maybe if Quebec is so concerned about it's culture declining you guys can help out in provinces like PEI....with some funding....I mean shit how much has Quebec stolen from New found land in electricity over the last 20 years..... Welcome to reality, just when everyone thinks they know the rules they change them.....not just for the French.....but for everyone......feel slighted by the government get in line because it is a long one....still have not even begun to fix the native issue yet, so it could be a while.... ....want Mr trudeau to say sorry Quebec on TV......buck up....rub some dirt on it like the rest of us do.....and get on with it.... Quebec is a province.....that likes to think it is a nation.....your big dreamers, like everyone else in Canada.....separation is not just a French thing, the west has been looking at it for decades as well, they're tired of hauling our all asses around for all this time.....But for today Quebec is a province within Canada.....and while your at home call it what ever you like....but when we step out into reality it is a province.....one of many that makes up our great nation called Canada...... That's what I think that you do not want to discuss it, but rather fight over it.....because no one here can do anything about it....we all have something we don't like about our government.....Canada is far from perfect.....but I can tell you this.....there are plenty of worse places to be..... Army Guy, of course we can't fix it here. Here it is a place to debate among mortals. The point is trying to agree here, so maybe we can hope and take actions that may have an impact on something that can evenatually be fixed. This forum is meant to debate about topics, not have a direct influence on the executive politics. We are not the premier's closiest advisors. You must live in the south of NB. Except for Moncton (Dieppe) that has a good understable french, the one on the south east of NB is so altered that even I can't understand what they are saying. They call it the Chiac. But it is located only there. The north of NB is using an accent much better than few regions of Québec. You have a serious double standard. When french is minority in an english province, it is too costly to maintain it. When english is in minority in a french province, we MUST maintain it at all cost. How conveniant! What a f---ing coincidence that the only one language that must be preserve is your's. Canada is not a third world country for f--- sake. No it is not too expensive to have only 2 language school systems. The PEI would have not banned the french language 100 years ago. PEI would be like NB. A "bilingual" province where the french also speak english and the english want their children to learn french as well. Now you are saying "too bad, it is our fault if we destroyed your culture but, it is too late, accept your fate, even if this country is suppose to be two official languages". How can you expect us to say "oh, what a f***ing good idea, I did not think about that obvious conclusion!". We did not stole anything from Newfoundland. NF stole Labrador. Regarding electricity, they did not want to take any risk. HQ was taking all the risk. So they made a deal. Now that HQ won its bet, they want to get share that goes along the risk. It does not work that way. If you buy a ticket lotery and you win, you do not have to give half of it to your roomate who did not want to pay the ticket. Or if you prefer, you bought stocks from APPLE 20 years ago and when you sell it, your neighbor says he deserves half of it even if he did not put any money in. Nope, it does not work like that. NF is crying a river because they never learned their lesson. The deal was good and the distribution goes accordingly to the risk taken. Regarding the constitution, Québec is the only one that DID NOT sign it. Therefore, we are the most legitimized ones to change it. You buck up because this is what you choosed. Not us. We were much clever than you. You are not elligible to tell me that my nation does not exist. Your opinion is massively rejected by the people of Québec. However, alot of naives here think that someday you will be intelligent enough to open your mind and figure out the truth. Obviously you are not. Your statement is very clear. Either we must choose to stop our existance, or we separate. Do not worry, it is a matter of time before the rest of us will see your true colors. We will stop annoying you with claims to modify the constitution and we will get the F-Out. Everybody will be happy. I will not accept mediocrity because you benchmark yourself with a country worst than yours. A federation of nations (english, french, natives) is not too much ask and refusing to recognize those other nations is not a starter. It's a dead end that you will have to assume the consequences when you will face them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benz Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) On 2016-12-04 at 8:28 PM, hernanday said: The ROC has no access to french speakers on a frequent enough basis to ever learn any meaningful amount of French. They would not even understand you asking them to pass them a pencil. Vikings, apaches were here before the English or French, get over it. Also Quebec claims it is its own nation, so did you find the nation or make your own nation? You cannot even lie properly. Yeah but there are only so many emmigrants from france. What did you expect, every France person would leave France for Canada? There are more English speaking people so naturally you'd get overwhelmed. You live on an English speaking continent. it is not cultural genocide, what French did to the natives was cultural genocide, what you are proposing of eliminating new comers culture, and language is genocide. French and natives were married but did the natives get to keep their language? Are french and English not married? Your first link is empty. " After Manitoba joined Confederation, many French-speaking Métis migrated farther West, leaving more space for English-speaking Protestant settlers from Ontario (see French in the West). " French people left the province to go West, no one was genocided. French are immigrants, like everyone else, learn English. Keep on showing your true colors. Denial of slavery and racial slurs, no surprise coming from your racist ilk. O so slaving indians is sooo much better than Africans. Yet 80% of the slavers remained french according to the experts. French were 3rd class citizens, then what were the Africans they denied services and genocided along with the indians they were enslaving? Yes. If FRench are getting it, then we got to give it to every other whiny group. The quote above showed they spread, and they should assimilate they lost the war. French has no special status in the ROC nor should they, don't like it, to bad. Where are the Vikings? Where are the Apaches? Vikings have been busted off the east coast by the natives before the other europeans came in. The Apaches were in what is now called USA. I am talking the actual country named Canada and the actual people living in it. It is cultural genocide because you banned it. If the french could have keep their schools, english would have still become the most spoken language and the french would have still need to learn english as well. But english would be their second language, just like me and the Acadiens. English would still be the most spoken one and the french culture would not be dying. Win-win for every one. Manitoba, PEI, NS and such, they would be like NB. As far as I am concerned, they are not killing each others so far. Come on, few french left to the west, not all. Among those who left, it was mostly because of oppression. Stop behaving like an ostrich. Regarding slavery, you are very childish. I never denied the existance of slavery, nor said anything about a race that is more acceptable than another. You are in very bad faith. I do not deny the facts. There was slavery. What I question (and all historians are doing the same) are not the facts, but rather his interpretations. He exagerated the slavery by adding people that were free to leave but had no where else to go, no ownership. The slavery in New France was not comparable to Haïti and Louisiana where the French used almost only africans. I never said it was more acceptable for canadiens to use natives. It comes from you and only you. No slavery was acceptable. Even if everyone were doing it, including the natives. But if you want to picture me as a bad evil guy, you can say that I eat babies medium rare and I leave the rest of my plate to the dog. It is not true either, but it is more spectacular. Quote If FRench are getting it, then we got to give it to every other whiny group. The quote above showed they spread, and they should assimilate they lost the war. French has no special status in the ROC nor should they, don't like it, to bad. If you want to give it to non official languages, it is up to you. You do what you want with your province. The 2 official languages of Canada are french and english. All provinces most comply and accept that those two groups must have schools in their languages. If you want a school for the swedish, it is up to you. I should assimilate because I lost the war? Nope. Start the war again then. Spread my blood on the floor. Edited December 8, 2016 by Benz d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Benz said: Army Guy, of course we can't fix it here. Here it is a place to debate among mortals. The point is trying to agree here, so maybe we can hope and take actions that may have an impact on something that can evenatually be fixed. This forum is meant to debate about topics, not have a direct influence on the executive politics. We are not the premier's closiest advisors. You have a funny way of trying to make people see your issue, because it is to clouded with anger in all your posts....not addressed at the federal government but rather the English people here on this forum as if they had something to do with the current state of your culture......I get it your emotional tied to this topic.....but the rest of us are not, so much.....it is not that we don't care, it is just not in our top 10 things to care about....something you fail to understand.....as I am sure the price of lobster does not have a direct influence in your life...your taking out your frustrations at the readers here, not debating they should be directed at the federal government .,....who is a Frenchmen, with shin in the game.....why is he not making this a priority in his government ? Quote You must live in the south of NB. Except for Moncton (Dieppe) that has a good understable french, the one on the south east of NB is so altered that even I can't understand what they are saying. They call it the Chiac. But it is located only there. The north of NB is using an accent much better than few regions of Québec. The north of NB is the "North shore" and it is here that unless your familiar with the dialect and both languages, English , French, and Maritimer you will struggle.....so much so that even Quebecois have given up on them......see they don't fly the Quebec flag , they fly the Acadian flag.....those that I've talked to do not consider them self Quebecois.....but rather Acadian two separate cultures....in southern NB you'll find more traditional French, areas around places such as Moncton etc....not many Acadians here....It is in these areas that French schools are having issues with filling their schools with French students.....because only 25 % of the population of new students are fluent in French...The problem is not enough schools but rather finding the people to speak French....it is the culture in that part of the province , filled with small fishing industries or forestry, and farming....Not a lot of money in those industries....those that do receive higher education go on to work in other areas of the country, some in Quebec most in English Canada.....and yet they are provided with both languages and given free choice to decide.... Quote You have a serious double standard. When french is minority in an english province, it is too costly to maintain it. When english is in minority in a french province, we MUST maintain it at all cost. How conveniant! What a f---ing coincidence that the only one language that must be preserve is your's. Canada is not a third world country for f--- sake. No it is not too expensive to have only 2 language school systems. The PEI would have not banned the french language 100 years ago. PEI would be like NB. A "bilingual" province where the french also speak english and the english want their children to learn french as well. Now you are saying "too bad, it is our fault if we destroyed your culture but, it is too late, accept your fate, even if this country is suppose to be two official languages". How can you expect us to say "oh, what a f***ing good idea, I did not think about that obvious conclusion!". I don't have a double standard, when I was 16 my father , who was in the military, serving in ST Hubert, at the time....I did not speak any French at the time....and to find work moved back to NB with my mother. Was I bitter NO, if one wanted to find work in Quebec one needed to speak French, that was the only solution.........I'd also like to remind you French is a minority here in New Brunswick, less than 30 % of the citizens that live here are French.....but once again you forget that.....and yet for a have not province it maintains both schools systems ....but at a cost...have you've driven on NB roads lately....we don't get big federal government contracts, nor do we have the tax base to make a real difference....and while you said it is not that expensive to do both.....I think Quebec and PEI, NB would differ with you.....here in NB both French and English schools are closing , at the rate of 15 -20 per year in order to save funding.....but enough about PEI....I find it funny that a self proclaimed Quebecois is complaining about the rest of Canada, when the only province that is bilingual is NB....New Brunswick is leading the way for both the English and French.....and not Quebec....who has declared it self unilingual..... Now if you step back for just a moment and take a look at Quebec, do you really think that French is not in danger of becoming a lost language....even English is in decline these days, take a look at western BC, where Chinese is a better language to learn than French or English....same can be said in a lot of major cities, where our grand melting pot is not so melted....and many different ethic groups still hold on to their cultures...... Our nation is evolving and what it will look like in 20 or 30 years is anyone's guess...but it will not look like anything we see today.....you either embrace change or get left behind.... Quote We did not stole anything from Newfoundland. NF stole Labrador. Regarding electricity, they did not want to take any risk. HQ was taking all the risk. So they made a deal. Now that HQ won its bet, they want to get share that goes along the risk. It does not work that way. If you buy a ticket lotery and you win, you do not have to give half of it to your roomate who did not want to pay the ticket. Or if you prefer, you bought stocks from APPLE 20 years ago and when you sell it, your neighbor says he deserves half of it even if he did not put any money in. Nope, it does not work like that. NF is crying a river because they never learned their lesson. The deal was good and the distribution goes accordingly to the risk taken NFLD stole Labrador, your funny .....man you guys don't give up......Labrador was transferred to NFLD in 1809, long time to keep a grudge.....since then Quebec's borders have changed even more.....since that date time to give it up..... I guess we have different stories.....here is the short story....in NFLD wanted to sell it's power to the outside world ...But it needed to cross Quebec first.......Quebec said NO, you'll have to sell your power to us... ....it had nothing to do with risks.....it was a project funded by NFLD and the federal government, only at the time , they did not have the funding/ tech available to bypass Quebec.....in other words, Quebec took advantage of NFLD state a poor province at the time....and forced it to sell for peanuts....what the hell it's just a bunch of English guys right..... It should be noted the second project will see under sea cable being run from Labrador to NFLD....then to NS.....Quebec will be by passed.....how's that for making friends , and promoting French culture..... Quote Further development of the Churchill River in central Labrador was planned for after the Churchill Falls Generating Station opened in 1972. However, the government of Québec refused to allow exports of electricity through its territory. The Lower Churchill Project passed an environmental assessment in 1980, but the project was postponed indefinitely due to concerns over market access to Hydro-Québec's electricity transmission system and financing. According to former Premier Brian Tobin, as Labrador borders Québec, when an agreement was being negotiated to sell the power generated at Churchill Falls, the power had to be sold to an entity within Québec or pass through Québec. The government of Québec refused to allow power to be transferred through Québec and would accept a contract only if the power was sold to Québec.[18] This vision is extremely controversial.[19] Because of this monopsony situation, Hydro-Québec received very favourable terms on the power sale contract. The contract was negotiated to run for a 40-year timespan, running until the year 2016,and then automatically renewing for 25 more years at a discounted rate.[20] According to former Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams, Hydro-Québec reaps profits from the Upper Churchill contract of approximately $1.7 billion per year, while Newfoundland and Labrador receives $63 million a year.[21] In reality the contract was " a gamble and it's gone against [Nalcor Energy]"[22] According to long-time Hydro-Québec critic Claude Garcia, the former president of Standard Life (Canada) and author of a recent assessment of the utility commissioned by the Montreal Economic Institute, if Hydro-Québec had to pay market prices for the low-cost power it received from the Churchill Falls project in Labrador, the 2007 profit would be an estimated 75% lower.[23] According to the government of Newfoundland and Labrador, Hydro-Québec has reaped more than $19 billion in profits while Newfoundland has received only $1 billion in revenues from the Churchill Falls project. Québec refused to renegotiate the project, which expires only in 2041.[24] Due to the coercion involved in that deal, Newfoundland and Labrador has sought an alternate route for the Lower Churchill Project that bypasses Québec.[25] Quote You are not elligible to tell me that my nation does not exist. Your opinion is massively rejected by the people of Québec. However, alot of naives here think that someday you will be intelligent enough to open your mind and figure out the truth. Obviously you are not. Your statement is very clear. Either we must choose to stop our existance, or we separate. Do not worry, it is a matter of time before the rest of us will see your true colors. We will stop annoying you with claims to modify the constitution and we will get the F-Out. Everybody will be happy. I will not accept mediocrity because you benchmark yourself with a country worst than yours. Hey you want to call it poutin , call it poutin, but the rest of the world, including the UN, see's it as a province within Canada's borders....one has to win a referendum first before you get the title of nation or state.....as for the people of Quebec I think they are happy being Canadian.....they had a chance to separate and what happened....How is the Blocs power base any ways still as strong.....How much has all this talk of separation cost the country in dollars I wonder....and if you do separate I wonder what the borders will look like....id Quebec ready for a whole new look.....I briefly remember the last demands Quebec made before it said it would separate.....1/2 of everything, but none of the debt.... and do you really think the Rest of Canada will stand for no access to the Maritimes, there needs to be a land bridge.....wonder how much money will be spent sorting all that crap...not to mention the mass of people moving....major corporations moving....what will Quebec gain and what will it lose....my bet is everyone is going to come out big losers.....for what so you can call Quebec a nation.....there will consequences for all of us.....perhaps even blood spilt.....to solve them.....until then we are all Canadians, some happier than others.... 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Benz Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: You have a funny way of trying to make people see your issue, because it is to clouded with anger in all your posts....not addressed at the federal government but rather the English people here on this forum as if they had something to do with the current state of your culture......I get it your emotional tied to this topic.....but the rest of us are not, so much.....it is not that we don't care, it is just not in our top 10 things to care about....something you fail to understand.....as I am sure the price of lobster does not have a direct influence in your life...your taking out your frustrations at the readers here, not debating they should be directed at the federal government .,....who is a Frenchmen, with shin in the game.....why is he not making this a priority in his government ? Again, this is a forum for debate on the canadian politics. If you keep telling me those topics can only be address to the federal government, fine. What are you doing here then? The government in place, is the one you choosed. So, yes, you have something to do with. The current situation is the outcome of leaders coming from your side of the fence and the reason why they are still issues, is because your leaders object to any solutions. Not a priority? We can tell, obviously. That is strange because when we do a referendum, out of sudden, it is the number one national priority. Your leaders have no problem of what so ever to cheat the rules and push a huge amount of money to come here and influence our people with promises that you will never keep. So whether you like it or not, you are concerned. You won't be concern anymore when Québec will leave. 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: The north of NB is the "North shore" and it is here that unless your familiar with the dialect and both languages, English , French, and Maritimer you will struggle.....so much so that even Quebecois have given up on them......see they don't fly the Quebec flag , they fly the Acadian flag.....those that I've talked to do not consider them self Quebecois.....but rather Acadian two separate cultures....in southern NB you'll find more traditional French, areas around places such as Moncton etc....not many Acadians here....It is in these areas that French schools are having issues with filling their schools with French students.....because only 25 % of the population of new students are fluent in French...The problem is not enough schools but rather finding the people to speak French....it is the culture in that part of the province , filled with small fishing industries or forestry, and farming....Not a lot of money in those industries....those that do receive higher education go on to work in other areas of the country, some in Quebec most in English Canada.....and yet they are provided with both languages and given free choice to decide.... Québécois is a civic nation. Not an ethnic nation. That is why the Acadians do not considere themselves Québécois and we are perfectly fine with it. They do not live here and they do not have the same reality. They do not have their own state and they do not have a national holliday on their national day. The Acadians had a much more painful history than us. The Grand Dérangement of 1755 was a very unnecessary cruel move the British did to them. 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: I don't have a double standard, when I was 16 my father , who was in the military, serving in ST Hubert, at the time....I did not speak any French at the time....and to find work moved back to NB with my mother. Was I bitter NO, if one wanted to find work in Quebec one needed to speak French, that was the only solution.........I'd also like to remind you French is a minority here in New Brunswick, less than 30 % of the citizens that live here are French.....but once again you forget that.....and yet for a have not province it maintains both schools systems ....but at a cost...have you've driven on NB roads lately....we don't get big federal government contracts, nor do we have the tax base to make a real difference....and while you said it is not that expensive to do both.....I think Quebec and PEI, NB would differ with you.....here in NB both French and English schools are closing , at the rate of 15 -20 per year in order to save funding.....but enough about PEI....I find it funny that a self proclaimed Quebecois is complaining about the rest of Canada, when the only province that is bilingual is NB....New Brunswick is leading the way for both the English and French.....and not Quebec....who has declared it self unilingual..... St-Hubert is not Westmount. There are places and jobs you can get without speaking french but, they are concentrated in the same area. My son's friend has parents coming from somewhere in south america. They speak spannish and a little of english. No french, although their son goes to a french school. In my area, it is true that it is a serious challenge to live without french. I do not know how they manage to do it, but they do. Québec declared french as the only OFFICIAL language. But Québec ALSO added english for the rights of educations and services. So English has a status and the english minority has rights. The difference between NB and Québec is, NB put both language on the same level. NB is the only one province when the numbers make it comparable to the face of Canada. The House of Common and the parliement in NB are using both languages. You do not see that anywhere else in Canada. That makes NB the most Canadian-like province of Canada. However, the number of french is declining and it is NOT because they are not interested in their language. Canada is a land of immigration and immigrants are attracted by the english language because it is the most spoken as second language in the world. It has an international non official recognition for common use conveniance. The reasonning of the immigrants is, if I have to choose a second language, I prefer the most popular. I do respect that, I would do the same. But it is an indirect threat to the survival of french. So Québec has rules to force them to send their children in french schools. NB does not have such rules. So unless the french does make more children than the english + immigrants, their number will always decline. By the way, despite NB is "bilingual", the english people of Québec speak more french than the anglos of NB. Well that was true for a long time. I know alot of anglos in NB learned french in the recent years. I am curious if the people are more bilingual today. I do not have recent data about that. You tell me. Comment se porte ton français et ceux de tes proches? 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: Now if you step back for just a moment and take a look at Quebec, do you really think that French is not in danger of becoming a lost language....even English is in decline these days, take a look at western BC, where Chinese is a better language to learn than French or English....same can be said in a lot of major cities, where our grand melting pot is not so melted....and many different ethic groups still hold on to their cultures...... Our nation is evolving and what it will look like in 20 or 30 years is anyone's guess...but it will not look like anything we see today.....you either embrace change or get left behind.... Speaking more than one language has scientific proven personal benefits. When I hear people speaking other languages around me, I do not mind at all. My only concern is that they must be able to speak french when we need to communicate together, (job, service, school). Other than that, they can keep up the language of their origins, I have no problem with that. Explain me this. For so long, you did every thing to erase french from Canada. Now that the chinese are starting to impose their language, you are fatalistic and let it go. What's the point. The hundred war is over, get over it. 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: NFLD stole Labrador, your funny .....man you guys don't give up......Labrador was transferred to NFLD in 1809, long time to keep a grudge.....since then Quebec's borders have changed even more.....since that date time to give it up..... I guess we have different stories.....here is the short story....in NFLD wanted to sell it's power to the outside world ...But it needed to cross Quebec first.......Quebec said NO, you'll have to sell your power to us... ....it had nothing to do with risks.....it was a project funded by NFLD and the federal government, only at the time , they did not have the funding/ tech available to bypass Quebec.....in other words, Quebec took advantage of NFLD state a poor province at the time....and forced it to sell for peanuts....what the hell it's just a bunch of English guys right..... It should be noted the second project will see under sea cable being run from Labrador to NFLD....then to NS.....Quebec will be by passed.....how's that for making friends , and promoting French culture.... Labrador has been taken away from Québec and give to NF. 2 of the 5 judges had interests in the Labrador, so they were partial. It was in 1927. But Québec does not claim it anymore. Too late. However, Québec is asking that the decision is at least respected because the border at the south of Labrador are not what is suppose to. Regarding the issue your are mentionning, NF wanted to use our territory but, they did not want to pay. The lines are not free, we pay for the maintenance. So HQ said, ok, don't pay, we will just buy your electricity and sell it ourselve. Nope, NF want the butter and the money from the butter. You are providing the opinion of NF. You did half of the job. Now you have to get the counter part. 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: Hey you want to call it poutin , call it poutin, but the rest of the world, including the UN, see's it as a province within Canada's borders....one has to win a referendum first before you get the title of nation or state.....as for the people of Quebec I think they are happy being Canadian.....they had a chance to separate and what happened....How is the Blocs power base any ways still as strong.....How much has all this talk of separation cost the country in dollars I wonder....and if you do separate I wonder what the borders will look like....id Quebec ready for a whole new look.....I briefly remember the last demands Quebec made before it said it would separate.....1/2 of everything, but none of the debt.... and do you really think the Rest of Canada will stand for no access to the Maritimes, there needs to be a land bridge.....wonder how much money will be spent sorting all that crap...not to mention the mass of people moving....major corporations moving....what will Quebec gain and what will it lose....my bet is everyone is going to come out big losers.....for what so you can call Quebec a nation.....there will consequences for all of us.....perhaps even blood spilt.....to solve them.....until then we are all Canadians, some happier than others.... Of course the world see a province. Because its current status is a province. That is exactly why we want to change it. We want decentralization, half of us are thinking you will accept, the other half are giving up waiting. How much it cost so far? Easy, look at all the spending with the Chrétien's sponsorship scandal. It will give you an idea. Although the No won by 0,6%, 60% of the french voted yes. It says alot about how much Canadians we do feel. So you are ready to spilt my blood on the floor rather than accept that I am not the same nation as your's? Be my guess, bring it on. I want my fellows to see how receptive you are. Who told you none of the debt? We accept our share of the debt, and expect our share of the actives as well. If Québec are happy canadians, then why we do not sign YOUR constitution? Canada is not the worst place to live in the world. That's why we are not rushing anything. We are not satisfied with the system, but we are not oppressed either. Being threatened of blood spilt by a loyalist of NB is not the kind of thing that will trouble or sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Benz said: Again, this is a forum for debate on the canadian politics. If you keep telling me those topics can only be address to the federal government, fine. What are you doing here then? The government in place, is the one you choosed. So, yes, you have something to do with. The current situation is the outcome of leaders coming from your side of the fence and the reason why they are still issues, is because your leaders object to any solutions. Not a priority? We can tell, obviously. That is strange because when we do a referendum, out of sudden, it is the number one national priority. Your leaders have no problem of what so ever to cheat the rules and push a huge amount of money to come here and influence our people with promises that you will never keep. So whether you like it or not, you are concerned. You won't be concern anymore when Québec will leave. St-Hubert is not Westmount. There are places and jobs you can get without speaking french but, they are concentrated in the same area. My son's friend has parents coming from somewhere in south america. They speak spannish and a little of english. No french, although their son goes to a french school. In my area, it is true that it is a serious challenge to live without french. I do not know how they manage to do it, but they do. Québec declared french as the only OFFICIAL language. But Québec ALSO added english for the rights of educations and services. So English has a status and the english minority has rights. The difference between NB and Québec is, NB put both language on the same level. NB is the only one province when the numbers make it comparable to the face of Canada. The House of Common and the parliement in NB are using both languages. You do not see that anywhere else in Canada. That makes NB the most Canadian-like province of Canada. However, the number of french is declining and it is NOT because they are not interested in their language. Canada is a land of immigration and immigrants are attracted by the english language because it is the most spoken as second language in the world. It has an international non official recognition for common use conveniance. The reasonning of the immigrants is, if I have to choose a second language, I prefer the most popular. I do respect that, I would do the same. But it is an indirect threat to the survival of french. So Québec has rules to force them to send their children in french schools. NB does not have such rules. So unless the french does make more children than the english + immigrants, their number will always decline. By the way, despite NB is "bilingual", the english people of Québec speak more french than the anglos of NB. Well that was true for a long time. I know alot of anglos in NB learned french in the recent years. I am curious if the people are more bilingual today. I do not have recent data about that. You tell me. Comment se porte ton français et ceux de tes proches? Speaking more than one language has scientific proven personal benefits. When I hear people speaking other languages around me, I do not mind at all. My only concern is that they must be able to speak french when we need to communicate together, (job, service, school). Other than that, they can keep up the language of their origins, I have no problem with that. Explain me this. For so long, you did every thing to erase french from Canada. Now that the chinese are starting to impose their language, you are fatalistic and let it go. What's the point. The hundred war is over, get over it. Labrador has been taken away from Québec and give to NF. 2 of the 5 judges had interests in the Labrador, so they were partial. It was in 1927. But Québec does not claim it anymore. Too late. However, Québec is asking that the decision is at least respected because the border at the south of Labrador are not what is suppose to. Regarding the issue your are mentionning, NF wanted to use our territory but, they did not want to pay. The lines are not free, we pay for the maintenance. So HQ said, ok, don't pay, we will just buy your electricity and sell it ourselve. Nope, NF want the butter and the money from the butter. You are providing the opinion of NF. You did half of the job. Now you have to get the counter part. Of course the world see a province. Because its current status is a province. That is exactly why we want to change it. We want decentralization, half of us are thinking you will accept, the other half are giving up waiting. How much it cost so far? Easy, look at all the spending with the Chrétien's sponsorship scandal. It will give you an idea. Although the No won by 0,6%, 60% of the french voted yes. It says alot about how much Canadians we do feel. So you are ready to spilt my blood on the floor rather than accept that I am not the same nation as your's? Be my guess, bring it on. I want my fellows to see how receptive you are. Who told you none of the debt? We accept our share of the debt, and expect our share of the actives as well. If Québec are happy canadians, then why we do not sign YOUR constitution? Canada is not the worst place to live in the world. That's why we are not rushing anything. We are not satisfied with the system, but we are not oppressed either. Being threatened of blood spilt by a loyalist of NB is not the kind of thing that will trouble or sleep. I did not say you could not debate, but that is not what you are doing you are pointing your anger at all English persons as if we were the ones that have done all you have said the English have done....My father grew up in , Montreal, area, in Verdun....it used to be an English area , not any more, but he does not share your anger....things change my point is your anger is coming out in your posts....and it is putting people on the defensive.....it is not debating but just you yelling...... The current government is not of my choosing....just one more assumption you have about English people, I voted conservative....on the last election....and just for the record, the current PM is Justin trudeau he is from Quebec, and he is a Frenchmen.....like you....he just does not share your views...at least not openly to the public....Why would it not become a number one priority to keep Canada together.....you seem to have this impression of the English want you guys out of our great nation.....but it is not true...most of us know the bill that it would cost if Quebec was to separate.....major comprise would have to come from both sides....IE on debt, who gets what, as in portions of the military, coast guard, rcmp...etc etc...and land brigde from the east to the west....which was a sticky point last referendum. a million questions would need to be answered and put into law....before Quebec would see a border change....not going to happen over night it would take years, before action could be settled and generations to finally ironed out..... Quote Québécois is a civic nation. Not an ethnic nation. That is why the Acadians do not considere themselves Québécois and we are perfectly fine with it. They do not live here and they do not have the same reality. They do not have their own state and they do not have a national holliday on their national day. The Acadians had a much more painful history than us. The Grand Dérangement of 1755 was a very unnecessary cruel move the British did to them. Are you saying that the Acadians were not French men and women from France at one time that you share a common back ground with .....and yet over time they have separated from true Quebecois in Quebec.... and become something different Acadians, who do not think of themselves as Quebecois but rather Acadians whos' loyality lies with France....not Quebec....... , and as I have said before many of the French people from Quebec that I've talked to, don't even consider Acadians French.....and if all this is the case why do you care if PEI has only a few French schools....or NS had very little , they are after all Acadians....not true Frenchmen from Quebec.... I think it is just one more excuse for the French in Quebec to whine about..... Quote By the way, despite NB is "bilingual", the english people of Québec speak more french than the anglos of NB. Well that was true for a long time. I know alot of anglos in NB learned french in the recent years. I am curious if the people are more bilingual today. I do not have recent data about that. You tell me. Comment se porte ton français et ceux de tes proches? I would hope so....one your population base is a lot larger than that of NB, plus the fact that French is required to work in most places in Quebec....not so much in NB....French is required in French towns and villages, plus most government jobs, federal or provincial ....the fact remains that in NB there is no fighting over languages, we have for the most part worked with French and English to make things work.....And if it can happen in NB where we don't have 1/1000 of your resources....then i'm sure things can work out between French and English in the rest of Canada.....Learning another language is popular in NB, in 2009 the school system had tried a 50/50 school year, for half the year everything in school would be French, the other half English.....it failed, but it was not brought in gradually.....families could not help with school work because parents did not understand enough French....the kids picked it up slowly and by the end of that school year were doing alright....but the program was canceled, and we returned to a French immersion program....which is still popular....I think learning a second language is important, is that second language to be French....not sure, here in New Bruswick sure, nut in alberta, sask, I think I would be studing Chinese, Russian, or something else.... Quote Explain me this. For so long, you did every thing to erase french from Canada. Now that the chinese are starting to impose their language, you are fatalistic and let it go. What's the point. The hundred war is over, get over it. This is what I mean....I have not tried to erase anything French from this country.....you imply that all English Canadians are doing this.....and yet most of our nations leaders have come from Quebec.....and are French....and some how the war is still ongoing.....I wish Quebec would see the same thing....the war is over , you lost....the English won....that was many many many moons ago....today we are one country with one flag.....that both French and Englishmen and women have stood up for and fought under the same flag, not once but 4 times....we have said to the world "WE ARE CANADIANS" and we will stand up for this country and all of her commitments, here and abroad.....................now that might not mean anything to you.....but it does to mean....and im sure it means a lot to the proud French members of the Vandoos, 2 RBC, and the rest of the French units that have served this nation with honor..... Quote Labrador has been taken away from Québec and give to NF. 2 of the 5 judges had interests in the Labrador, so they were partial. It was in 1927. But Québec does not claim it anymore. Too late. However, Québec is asking that the decision is at least respected because the border at the south of Labrador are not what is suppose to. You might want to take a look at your history books, Labrador was given to NFLD in 1809.....in 1927 that was the year that the borders were being disputed by Quebec.....And while Quebec may be right the border may not be were it once was, Quebec has grown in other ways during this times as well, a lot of Ruputs land was given to Quebec to administer as well. besides how many people does it effect....that far up north.....is really something Quebec can not live with out.....and your right charging NFLD a fair price would have been reasonable......But that's not what happen is it.....that is why NFLD in 65 years will have made 1 bil....while Quebec manged to make 18 bil....is that a fair price....for a poor province...one of the poorest at the time.....and if it was so fair....why is NFLD now building under sea cable to transfer power to NLFD then on to NS.....at the cost of 22 bil, is it because Quebec treated them fairly....or because they got a raw deal ....and now Quebec will get 0 of the new power generation plants electricity. I'm not ready to spill any French Canadians blood, for me that would be the worst day of any Canadian lives.....to fight our brothers in arms...would be a sad day......but then again I do not make the rules nor do I make the decisions in this country........but if comprise of both sides does not work, then it may have to be settled in other ways.........the last referendum , do you think that the CF-18 from Quebec were sent on exericise by mistake in the US, once they arrived they're aircraft were grounded, under US guards......do you also think that most of 5 brigade was sent to New York state for exericise as well and they were not allowed to leave those bases.....do you think that was because Canada was afraid of what might happen in Quebec, that they were not willing to take some precautions by removing French military forces out of Quebecs area, so Canada does not lose control of them...................why was 2 Brigade put on alert, all leave canceled, soldiers put on readiness alert.....it had to have a reason....but why.....because the military option was there if need be.....so as much as i'd like to say they will be no armed forces that enter into Quebec ....after a separation vote...to secure interests of Canada.....I do not make the decisions here in Canada....nor do I know what is going to happen....but there are options.... 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Benz Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: I did not say you could not debate, but that is not what you are doing you are pointing your anger at all English persons as if we were the ones that have done all you have said the English have done....My father grew up in , Montreal, area, in Verdun....it used to be an English area , not any more, but he does not share your anger....things change my point is your anger is coming out in your posts....and it is putting people on the defensive.....it is not debating but just you yelling...... So I understand you feel like a victim. I will try to be more delicate. You seemed so insensible to the minorities (french and natives). I did not think you would feel oppressed by finger pointing at you. 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: The current government is not of my choosing....just one more assumption you have about English people, I voted conservative....on the last election....and just for the record, the current PM is Justin trudeau he is from Quebec, and he is a Frenchmen.....like you....he just does not share your views...at least not openly to the public....Why would it not become a number one priority to keep Canada together.....you seem to have this impression of the English want you guys out of our great nation.....but it is not true...most of us know the bill that it would cost if Quebec was to separate.....major comprise would have to come from both sides....IE on debt, who gets what, as in portions of the military, coast guard, rcmp...etc etc...and land brigde from the east to the west....which was a sticky point last referendum. a million questions would need to be answered and put into law....before Quebec would see a border change....not going to happen over night it would take years, before action could be settled and generations to finally ironed out..... Trudeau is bilingual. His father had a french dad and an english mom. He has an english mom I think. It is difficult to say if he is more english or french. I do not think he wants to choose. He has his own understanding. One thing for sure, we are definitely different mindsets. Him and I do not have much in common. I do not have the feeling you want us out. I have the feeling you want to own us and do not want to see as your partners, but rather as your property. In a normal situation, we do not need to separate to become sovereign and set the rules as we wish in our land. But that requires you to give you on this old imperialist mindset. Imagine for a moment that Québec voted yes in 1995. After moreless 2 or 3 years of negociations, we separate. Then 10 years later, when we respect each others as good neighbors, we understand that we would have great benefit to unite again. Then we do a real confederacy type of union where our states are still sovereign and share some powers for the common good. Now your question is, then why separate in first place? Because it would be a different union than the current one. It would be a union where we are a sovereign nation, therefore, we must agree together to set rules. Unlike now, you have the exclusive ownership of the constitution because you outnumber us. You do not respect us. You change the rules as you wish according to your values and interests 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: Are you saying that the Acadians were not French men and women from France at one time that you share a common back ground with .....and yet over time they have separated from true Quebecois in Quebec.... and become something different Acadians, who do not think of themselves as Quebecois but rather Acadians whos' loyality lies with France....not Quebec....... , and as I have said before many of the French people from Quebec that I've talked to, don't even consider Acadians French.....and if all this is the case why do you care if PEI has only a few French schools....or NS had very little , they are after all Acadians....not true Frenchmen from Quebec.... I think it is just one more excuse for the French in Quebec to whine about..... Of course not, I did not say that. Québécois and Acadiens are both french, from the same origin. I do not know what you are talking about Acadiens not being real frenchmen. You definitely do not know what you talk about. We are entertaining closer ties than you think. It seems that the Québécois you met are not having good faith. Beside the Acadians speaking Chiac in south eastern NB, their french is easy to understand for us. 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: This is what I mean....I have not tried to erase anything French from this country.....you imply that all English Canadians are doing this.....and yet most of our nations leaders have come from Quebec.....and are French....and some how the war is still ongoing.....I wish Quebec would see the same thing....the war is over , you lost....the English won....that was many many many moons ago....today we are one country with one flag.....that both French and Englishmen and women have stood up for and fought under the same flag, not once but 4 times....we have said to the world "WE ARE CANADIANS" and we will stand up for this country and all of her commitments, here and abroad.....................now that might not mean anything to you.....but it does to mean....and im sure it means a lot to the proud French members of the Vandoos, 2 RBC, and the rest of the French units that have served this nation with honor..... You said it, it was long time ago. Can we move on and respect each others? The Québécois learn english, they respect the principle of the representativeness in the House of common, although they do not agree with major points, they still collaborate, but it is never enough for you. You want total domination. You want the exclusivity over the rules. No sharing, total ownership. This is why we can't feel home in this country. It's the very same thing with the natives. 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: You might want to take a look at your history books, Labrador was given to NFLD in 1809.....in 1927 that was the year that the borders were being disputed by Quebec.....And while Quebec may be right the border may not be were it once was, Quebec has grown in other ways during this times as well, a lot of Ruputs land was given to Quebec to administer as well. besides how many people does it effect....that far up north.....is really something Quebec can not live with out.....and your right charging NFLD a fair price would have been reasonable......But that's not what happen is it.....that is why NFLD in 65 years will have made 1 bil....while Quebec manged to make 18 bil....is that a fair price....for a poor province...one of the poorest at the time.....and if it was so fair....why is NFLD now building under sea cable to transfer power to NLFD then on to NS.....at the cost of 22 bil, is it because Quebec treated them fairly....or because they got a raw deal ....and now Quebec will get 0 of the new power generation plants electricity. Labrador has move form NF to Québec and vice versa few times. The coast belong to NF, but the border was not well defined. When London gave to NF what Labrador is today, not only Québec, but the whole Canada was angry at the decision. Canada wanted back the land London has took away from them (excluding the east coast if it pleases you). After a while, Canada stopped claiming back Labrador and rather tried to swallow the whole NF. That is what they do. Here is a map of 1912: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontière_entre_le_Québec_et_Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador#/media/File:NFL_in_1912.png 15 hours ago, Army Guy said: I'm not ready to spill any French Canadians blood, for me that would be the worst day of any Canadian lives.....to fight our brothers in arms...would be a sad day......but then again I do not make the rules nor do I make the decisions in this country........but if comprise of both sides does not work, then it may have to be settled in other ways.........the last referendum , do you think that the CF-18 from Quebec were sent on exericise by mistake in the US, once they arrived they're aircraft were grounded, under US guards......do you also think that most of 5 brigade was sent to New York state for exericise as well and they were not allowed to leave those bases.....do you think that was because Canada was afraid of what might happen in Quebec, that they were not willing to take some precautions by removing French military forces out of Quebecs area, so Canada does not lose control of them...................why was 2 Brigade put on alert, all leave canceled, soldiers put on readiness alert.....it had to have a reason....but why.....because the military option was there if need be.....so as much as i'd like to say they will be no armed forces that enter into Quebec ....after a separation vote...to secure interests of Canada.....I do not make the decisions here in Canada....nor do I know what is going to happen....but there are options.... You suggested it. Now I see that you back off. Of course we know the reason why they sent the CF-18 in US soil. We are not naive. If Ottawa would have use the army against us, it would change the face of Canada forever. If you think the rest of the world would let you do that without consequences... if you think you would just keep Québec against its will with military forces without consequences, you definitely do not know what you are talking about. One thing for sure, the reputation of Canada would change drastically from one of the best, to among the worst. English Canadians may have some stupid leaders but, they are not like that. Canada is a pacific country. Otherwise I would not be in favor of a confederacy type of union. I would not use a referendum either. I would be bringing back FLQ to life again. There is no doubt in my mind that is not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 11 hours ago, Benz said: So I understand you feel like a victim. I will try to be more delicate. You seemed so insensible to the minorities (french and natives). I did not think you would feel oppressed by finger pointing at you. Trudeau is bilingual. His father had a french dad and an english mom. He has an english mom I think. It is difficult to say if he is more english or french. I do not think he wants to choose. He has his own understanding. One thing for sure, we are definitely different mindsets. Him and I do not have much in common. I do not have the feeling you want us out. I have the feeling you want to own us and do not want to see as your partners, but rather as your property. In a normal situation, we do not need to separate to become sovereign and set the rules as we wish in our land. But that requires you to give you on this old imperialist mindset. Imagine for a moment that Québec voted yes in 1995. After moreless 2 or 3 years of negociations, we separate. Then 10 years later, when we respect each others as good neighbors, we understand that we would have great benefit to unite again. Then we do a real confederacy type of union where our states are still sovereign and share some powers for the common good. Now your question is, then why separate in first place? Because it would be a different union than the current one. It would be a union where we are a sovereign nation, therefore, we must agree together to set rules. Unlike now, you have the exclusive ownership of the constitution because you outnumber us. You do not respect us. You change the rules as you wish according to your values and interests Of course not, I did not say that. Québécois and Acadiens are both french, from the same origin. I do not know what you are talking about Acadiens not being real frenchmen. You definitely do not know what you talk about. We are entertaining closer ties than you think. It seems that the Québécois you met are not having good faith. Beside the Acadians speaking Chiac in south eastern NB, their french is easy to understand for us. You said it, it was long time ago. Can we move on and respect each others? The Québécois learn english, they respect the principle of the representativeness in the House of common, although they do not agree with major points, they still collaborate, but it is never enough for you. You want total domination. You want the exclusivity over the rules. No sharing, total ownership. This is why we can't feel home in this country. It's the very same thing with the natives. Labrador has move form NF to Québec and vice versa few times. The coast belong to NF, but the border was not well defined. When London gave to NF what Labrador is today, not only Québec, but the whole Canada was angry at the decision. Canada wanted back the land London has took away from them (excluding the east coast if it pleases you). After a while, Canada stopped claiming back Labrador and rather tried to swallow the whole NF. That is what they do. Here is a map of 1912: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontière_entre_le_Québec_et_Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador#/media/File:NFL_in_1912.png You suggested it. Now I see that you back off. Of course we know the reason why they sent the CF-18 in US soil. We are not naive. If Ottawa would have use the army against us, it would change the face of Canada forever. If you think the rest of the world would let you do that without consequences... if you think you would just keep Québec against its will with military forces without consequences, you definitely do not know what you are talking about. One thing for sure, the reputation of Canada would change drastically from one of the best, to among the worst. English Canadians may have some stupid leaders but, they are not like that. Canada is a pacific country. Otherwise I would not be in favor of a confederacy type of union. I would not use a referendum either. I would be bringing back FLQ to life again. There is no doubt in my mind that is not necessary. No , not a victim, more of a guy trying to learn of your plight....maybe learn a few things or two.....but that's not where this is going ....this is "you" who needs to yell or vent at some English person....any English person will do....because some how some one from NB is responsible for all your problems.....and to be blunt.....I don't give a rats ass....I have my own problems, in my own province.... From listening to you separation is only a matter of time.....great good luck with that.... I hope that Quebec does not separate....but that's out of my hands, so I don't lay in bed and lose sleep over it.....I will tell you if it does happen , it will be a major source of disruption, and discourse within Canada, our dollar will fall, as will our trade, our debt will grow, etc etc....Canada reputation will take a hit on the world markets....but hey you'll have your own country that is what you want....that may or may have the same borders as it does today, everything will be sunshine and rainbows....and we will all live happily ever after...........and 50 years from now no one will even remember that we were once one undivided country..... good luck with finding your next English person to torture.....it has been nice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benz Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 On 2016-12-11 at 1:18 AM, Army Guy said: No , not a victim, more of a guy trying to learn of your plight....maybe learn a few things or two.....but that's not where this is going ....this is "you" who needs to yell or vent at some English person....any English person will do....because some how some one from NB is responsible for all your problems.....and to be blunt.....I don't give a rats ass....I have my own problems, in my own province.... From listening to you separation is only a matter of time.....great good luck with that.... I hope that Quebec does not separate....but that's out of my hands, so I don't lay in bed and lose sleep over it.....I will tell you if it does happen , it will be a major source of disruption, and discourse within Canada, our dollar will fall, as will our trade, our debt will grow, etc etc....Canada reputation will take a hit on the world markets....but hey you'll have your own country that is what you want....that may or may have the same borders as it does today, everything will be sunshine and rainbows....and we will all live happily ever after...........and 50 years from now no one will even remember that we were once one undivided country..... good luck with finding your next English person to torture.....it has been nice.... Exchanging our point of views is the only way to understand. But sometimes even when we try hard, understanding looks like it is out of reach. I see the hue gap we have on some issues and I honestly do not know what is the solution. You have the feeling that I blame you for all my problems. Maybe it is because I have said alot of things that either you not aware or just do not agree, or maybe both. There are alot of problems that you have nothing to do with it. I am not annoying you with these. I am just talking about those that regards you. Imagine for a moment that Meech would have pass in 1990. What kind of Canada would we have today? For the common day-to-day, it would look almost the same. But the political conflicts would not be as numerous as now. The dynamic would be healthier and more constructive. The need for independance would be below 20% or maybe below 10%. If a conflict would occurs, there would be tools to solve it without having to bring up the separation card. If we would start from scratch and a create a new country by fixing the rules together, we probably would be able to agree on 90% of the conditions. But that 10% we don't, we are on total opposite sides. To me, it is a total mystery that hold on so much to a united Canada but, a the same time, has so few consideration with the conditions the french are having. It just does not make sense. How come you wish to have so much division in your union? If you want so much to keep unity, why being so conflictual? Why so exclusive on the rules? What you say and the decisions you take, are not heading in the same direction, but I do not think you realise it. You probably telling yourself that I am totally offroad with that opinion. Whether you agree or not, what you need to know is that from our point of view, what you want and the decisions you take, are not compatible. The same can be said for us regarding the nation status that is so important for us to a point that we cannot sign the current constitution but, at the same time, we reject our own referendum about it. We also were not always clear about our requests. One of the problem with Meech, was the choice of words. Such as Distinct Society instead of Nation. The Quebec liberals and the Conservatices (Mulroney) thought it was easier for you to accept that naming. Even if the intention was good, it looked suspicious. Maybe there is something else that I do that is not in your understanding compatible with what I want. I do not have a problem to give more powers to the native nations, give them more sovereignty and the tools to develop themselves. I do not feel that I lose the grip on anything. I think the Paix des Braves treaty is an example to follow. It is very obvious for me. Maybe because I am not in the seat of the dominant. I do not see the concept of nations of Canada as something that can treathen the unity of Canada. On the contrary, it can save it for a common good. I understand that your opinion is the contrary of mine but I do not understand why and how come it is so difficult for you to understand our point of view. Even if your federation has been set in a time where women could not vote and it was a crime to be gay, you still think that the French and the Natives must comply to it as is, only because the British won the war few centuries ago. Why do you think humans should be that much fatalists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted December 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 21 minutes ago, Benz said: Exchanging our point of views is the only way to understand. But sometimes even when we try hard, understanding looks like it is out of reach. I see the hue gap we have on some issues and I honestly do not know what is the solution. You have the feeling that I blame you for all my problems. Maybe it is because I have said alot of things that either you not aware or just do not agree, or maybe both. There are alot of problems that you have nothing to do with it. I am not annoying you with these. I am just talking about those that regards you. Imagine for a moment that Meech would have pass in 1990. What kind of Canada would we have today? For the common day-to-day, it would look almost the same. But the political conflicts would not be as numerous as now. The dynamic would be healthier and more constructive. The need for independance would be below 20% or maybe below 10%. If a conflict would occurs, there would be tools to solve it without having to bring up the separation card. If we would start from scratch and a create a new country by fixing the rules together, we probably would be able to agree on 90% of the conditions. But that 10% we don't, we are on total opposite sides. To me, it is a total mystery that hold on so much to a united Canada but, a the same time, has so few consideration with the conditions the french are having. It just does not make sense. How come you wish to have so much division in your union? If you want so much to keep unity, why being so conflictual? Why so exclusive on the rules? What you say and the decisions you take, are not heading in the same direction, but I do not think you realise it. You probably telling yourself that I am totally offroad with that opinion. Whether you agree or not, what you need to know is that from our point of view, what you want and the decisions you take, are not compatible. The same can be said for us regarding the nation status that is so important for us to a point that we cannot sign the current constitution but, at the same time, we reject our own referendum about it. We also were not always clear about our requests. One of the problem with Meech, was the choice of words. Such as Distinct Society instead of Nation. The Quebec liberals and the Conservatices (Mulroney) thought it was easier for you to accept that naming. Even if the intention was good, it looked suspicious. Maybe there is something else that I do that is not in your understanding compatible with what I want. I do not have a problem to give more powers to the native nations, give them more sovereignty and the tools to develop themselves. I do not feel that I lose the grip on anything. I think the Paix des Braves treaty is an example to follow. It is very obvious for me. Maybe because I am not in the seat of the dominant. I do not see the concept of nations of Canada as something that can treathen the unity of Canada. On the contrary, it can save it for a common good. I understand that your opinion is the contrary of mine but I do not understand why and how come it is so difficult for you to understand our point of view. Even if your federation has been set in a time where women could not vote and it was a crime to be gay, you still think that the French and the Natives must comply to it as is, only because the British won the war few centuries ago. Why do you think humans should be that much fatalists? If quebec should ever separate the rest of Canada will do just fine, and maybe do better. Billions saved from not having to put up with bilingualism anymore. Business will go on as usual, trade deals will still go on, the markets won't crash, people won't lose jobs, except maybe the bilingual ones, and kids will still go to school and get their education, and not have to worry about having to learn french to get a job with the federal government. And English Canadians won't have to worry about having to listen too and see some french person from quebec taking a job away from an Anglophone in the rest of Canada. They can have a job without being told that they must speak french if they want a management job or have to speak french to become a Prime Minister. The french won't be so arrogant anymore, and think that Canada cannot survive without quebec. Matter of fact , if quebec should separate, and as a western separatist from way back, maybe the west can finally take control of our own affairs, and not have Quebec or Ontario dictating to us as to how we will live, and be forced to live with all of their wasteful and useless blowing of western Canadians tax dollars on all of their politically correct programs and agendas that serve no purpose for the rest of the west. We can finally be masters in and of our own house. Hey, will work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 hour ago, nicko21expression said: If we would start from scratch and a create a new country by fixing the rules together, we probably would be able to agree on 90% of the conditions. But that 10% we don't, we are on total opposite sides.Right? I know as to what I would do if we could go back and do it all over. It would be bilingualism for Quebec, and the rest of the country will be unilingual English. There, problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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