Would you live in The Matrix if you had 100% control?

[Moonlight Graham]

Imagine in the future where you could plug yourself in to a virtual world that seemed 100% real, like in The Matrix or Total Recall.  That was 100% customizable by you.  Where your only limit was your imagination.  Where your EVERY desire could be attained.  Where you were surrounded by insanely beautiful members of the opposite sex that desire only  to please you.  You could live the fantasy of being the greatest hockey player to ever live.  You could live in Middle Earth or on Tatooine.  You could be Prime Minister of your own dream political society that you controlled.  You could create music or buildings or colonized planets with no financial limitations. You could be a soldier in WWII.  You could hang out with Jesus.  You could meet your dream romantic companion.

The only catch is that you obviously have to live in this virtual world.  Maybe you could go spend a few hours a day there, but why would you want to come back to boring reality?  If you could live in this virtual world 24/7, would you?  You'd be fed by IV and your bodily waste disposed of, while automated exercise machines would prevent total muscle atrophy.  This may seem far fetched but technology will allow this some day, it's inevitable.  Would you do it?  Or would you stay in reality?  If so, what would you do?  What would be your fantasies?

[TimG]

It would get boring fast if these worlds are really designed to be subject to the whims of the player. 

Games like Minecraft deal with the tedium that comes with control by introducing elements which the player cannot control. 

[Bonam]

Adding an interesting level of challenge, unpredictability, or lack of control to make it ideally engaging would be a relatively simple matter, presumably. The bigger issue I think is if the subject knows that what they are in is merely a simulation, or if they think it's the real world. I think for most people, if they know it's merely a simulation, they wouldn't want to spend their whole lives in it, probably just enough to enjoy being "surrounded by insanely beautiful members of the opposite sex that desire only  to please you" every night. Of course, some people would get addicted and spend all their time there but it would be looked down on like computer game addicts are today.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, TimG said:

It would get boring fast if these worlds are really designed to be subject to the whims of the player. 

Games like Minecraft deal with the tedium that comes with control by introducing elements which the player cannot control. 

How quickly? With all the stimulation of real life so that you couldn't tell the difference except you'd be leading a golden life, fabulously wealthy, surrounded by gorgeous supermodels and Hollywood babes who adored you, floating on yachts, enjoying life, seeing the world. I don't think that would get old very soon just because everyone did and acted exactly how you wanted them to. No arguments, no stress. Food always done perfectly, racing down the highways in your Maserati  at 180 without fear of cops or tire blowouts killing you...  Yeah, I could try that for a long while. Hell, you could even give yourself super powers. Want to fly through the towers of Manhattan like Superman? Easy peasy!

Edited October 29, 2016 by Argus

[Guest]

I would go there for vacations.

[eyeball]

I'm sure it won't be long until the usual suspects consider this technology's potential for punishing criminals. They could be executed or tortured over and over again for even the most trifling crimes.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 2016-10-29 at 1:49 PM, TimG said:

It would get boring fast if these worlds are really designed to be subject to the whims of the player. 

Games like Minecraft deal with the tedium that comes with control by introducing elements which the player cannot control. 

It could be programmed to do anything the user wanted.  If the player want to to program a certain level of challenge into it, they could. 

[Moonlight Graham]

On 2016-10-29 at 2:46 PM, Bonam said:

Adding an interesting level of challenge, unpredictability, or lack of control to make it ideally engaging would be a relatively simple matter, presumably. The bigger issue I think is if the subject knows that what they are in is merely a simulation, or if they think it's the real world. I think for most people, if they know it's merely a simulation, they wouldn't want to spend their whole lives in it, probably just enough to enjoy being "surrounded by insanely beautiful members of the opposite sex that desire only  to please you" every night. Of course, some people would get addicted and spend all their time there but it would be looked down on like computer game addicts are today.

Is falling in love in a virtual world any different than in the real world?  What if the sensory responses and the emotions are the same?  What if you could choose to program the VR world to make it so if you died in the VR world you'd die in the real world too.  That would make things much more realistic.  What if things were so convingingly real, after a while you mostly forgot you weren't in 'reality".  Isn't "reality" simply what you're experiencing through your 5 senses anyways?

Edited October 31, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm sure it won't be long until the usual suspects consider this technology's potential for punishing criminals. They could be executed or tortured over and over again for even the most trifling crimes.

That's an interesting thought.  I'm sure that would happen in some ways.  It would be considered torture though, maybe only for to "enemy combatants" 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[TimG]

11 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Is falling in love in a virtual world any different than in the real world?

When you know there is a 'restart' button people will take different risks. It can never be the same.

[TimG]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It could be programmed to do anything the user wanted.  If the player want to to program a certain level of challenge into it, they could. 

Game AIs are often artificial. People learn to plan to exploit weaknesses in the AI rather than treating it as a real thing. You can hypothesize better AIs but that is a leap from your original premise which was just a virtual world. 

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, TimG said:

Game AIs are often artificial. People learn to plan to exploit weaknesses in the AI rather than treating it as a real thing. You can hypothesize better AIs but that is a leap from your original premise which was just a virtual world. 

It's not a leap, the title of the thread is referencing The Matrix and Total Recall, where AI in both worlds is completely indistinguishable from real humans.

I see what you're saying about the reset button.  But then, to make things more realistic you could set limits on how many total times you would be able to reset, or how often you could (ie: once every 3 years), tor allow no resets.  It can be as realistic or not as the user wants.

[TimG]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I see what you're saying about the reset button.  But then, to make things more realistic you could set limits on how many total times you would be able to reset, or how often you could (ie: once every 3 years), tor allow no resets.  It can be as realistic or not as the user wants.

I have lost track of the number of times I wished for a 'restart' button in real life. No way I would give that up but the existence of the restart button would ultimately differentiate real life from virtual reality.

[Moonlight Graham]

8 minutes ago, TimG said:

I have lost track of the number of times I wished for a 'restart' button in real life. No way I would give that up but the existence of the restart button would ultimately differentiate real life from virtual reality.

Well that's for sure.  But is that preferable?  I mean the whole point of VR is to live a fantasy.  It would be cool to be able to erase all mistakes, but then what would it do to our psyche? Maybe short-term less stress, but longterm other side-effects.

[Bonam]

18 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Is falling in love in a virtual world any different than in the real world?  What if the sensory responses and the emotions are the same?  What if you could choose to program the VR world to make it so if you died in the VR world you'd die in the real world too.  That would make things much more realistic.  What if things were so convingingly real, after a while you mostly forgot you weren't in 'reality".  Isn't "reality" simply what you're experiencing through your 5 senses anyways?

Yes, hypothetically you could create such a thing and if one spent long enough in it one might "forget" that it isn't reality. Thinking about it in practice though, it seems likely that it would not be legal to program things so if you died in your simulation your physical self would be killed as well. Further, assuming that nothing was done to mess with your memory, the underlying fact that what you are experiencing is only a simulation would still be intellectually known to you even if it didn't "feel" like a simulation. While experiencing an immersive, realistic simulation where you can live out all your fantasies is very appealing and no doubt many people would spend some time in it, I think many people are driven by some sort of ambition to achieve something in the "real" world. 

[Moonlight Graham]

7 hours ago, Bonam said:

Yes, hypothetically you could create such a thing and if one spent long enough in it one might "forget" that it isn't reality. Thinking about it in practice though, it seems likely that it would not be legal to program things so if you died in your simulation your physical self would be killed as well. Further, assuming that nothing was done to mess with your memory, the underlying fact that what you are experiencing is only a simulation would still be intellectually known to you even if it didn't "feel" like a simulation. While experiencing an immersive, realistic simulation where you can live out all your fantasies is very appealing and no doubt many people would spend some time in it, I think many people are driven by some sort of ambition to achieve something in the "real" world. 

Hmm that's true, to your last point.  But then again, ie: if you could make love to hot women who love you in a VR world, why would you try to do it in the real world when you're just going to fail far more often in the real world.  But then, maybe you'd still be motivated to meet a real romantic partner and have a family.  I think such a world would be so incredibly temping to people, especially those not unhappy with their real lives, which is quite a few people.  Maybe that's a form of natural selection?

[Bonam]

20 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Hmm that's true, to your last point.  But then again, ie: if you could make love to hot women who love you in a VR world, why would you try to do it in the real world when you're just going to fail far more often in the real world.  But then, maybe you'd still be motivated to meet a real romantic partner and have a family.  I think such a world would be so incredibly temping to people, especially those not unhappy with their real lives, which is quite a few people.  Maybe that's a form of natural selection?

 Well clearly a lot of people fall to even much more imperfect simulations of a more blissful world, even when they're physical body is not being taken care of. An obvious example is drugs that make you feel good. And certainly creating an option which has even more powerful rewards than this (being able to live out all your fantasies) while also keeping your body in perfect health would appeal to more people. But in the end it's just an escape. Would you be happy living in the simulation that someone else invented, that someone else keeps functioning, and which is only ever likely to be improved if someone else does so? I don't think I would be. I want to make some contribution, to affect the course or events, to further some aspect of technology, science, civilization, etc. Even if we have fancy simulations that let people live out their fantasy lives, there are always more things to achieve. Maybe you'll get all the hot women you want in the fantasy world and won't bother trying to form relationships with real life women any more, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything else to do in the real world. In fact most people could probably achieve far more in the world if so much of life didn't revolve around trying to attract and retain a suitable mate. 

I want to see mankind colonize the galaxy and ensure it's survival for the next few trillion years, I want to see the mysteries of dark matter and dark energy unraveled, I want the disease of aging to be cured and lifespans extended indefinitely, among many other things. And I can't do any of those things (for real) from a simulation. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Bonam