Obese Children & Parental Responsibility

[ndpnic]

What do you think?

Considering the health risks, both long and short term, should parents who allow their children to become obese be held accountable for Child Abuse?

It seems to be as crimminally negligent as Starving ones child to me to aloow them to become obese!

[Cartman]

Maybe it is not abuse, but it is a form of neglect. People should get more active and do things with their kids.

[Choke]

Ndpic, that is insane. Especially considering that children don't always stay with the same parent.

[maplesyrup]

NDPic.......you are onto something.

Too many adults just think about getting laid, and not about the consequences of having a child. It means putting your own life on the back burner for 20 years.

We need to start looking at this issue.

[Choke]

Too many adults just think about getting laid, and not about the consequences of having a child. It means putting your own life on the back burner for 20 years.

This is true, but it doesn't address the issue at hand. The issue is whether it is a CRIME to have an obese child and I think that is a ridiculous notion. There are too many variables to blame one person for their children's obesity.

[ndpnic]

Too many adults just think about getting laid, and not about the consequences of having a child. It means putting your own life on the back burner for 20 years.

This is true, but it doesn't address the issue at hand. The issue is whether it is a CRIME to have an obese child and I think that is a ridiculous notion. There are too many variables to blame one person for their children's obesity.

where and when does parental responsibility come in?

My huuby and I recently went to an assembly at our son's school, and I'm telling you at least 1/2 the kids are overweight, and 1/2 of those kids would be considered Obese.

So who's fault is it that these kids are ending up like this?

Not only are there health risks, but thimk of the Social consequenses as well : obese kids are limited to what they can physically, and are teased by other kids!

Someone needs to take responsibility for the condition of these kids.

Parents need to know that letting you kids become obese is NOT OK!!!!!

[ndpnic]

Just to be clear, I am not talking about children who suffer from Thyroid disorders et al.

I am talking about children who are OBESE because

a) the parents are, so it must be ok

parents use Food to Parent

c) parents are not promoting physical activity

These are the Parents who need to be held accountable!

[Choke]

If a child spends the first 4 years of their life with parents A & B, then a year alone with parent B, then 3 years with parents A & B during which they become obese, then 4 years with parents B & C during which they become more obese, after which they spend the rest of their childhood with parent C who would you like to blame?

Also, parent A was an alcoholic who was drunk during the time the child became obese. Parent B is certifiably insane. Parent C is a single parent. The child is NOT inactive, food is NOT used to parent, and parent C is not obese. The child simply eats too much and food is too readily available at school for it to make a difference if diet is regulated at home.

Legistlating parenting is too messy and too complicated for me to trust any government to do it right.

A fair better solution in my opinion would be to educate the children themselves. If children were taught about nutrition they would be able to make healthier choices.

[Cartman]

Legistlating parenting is too messy and too complicated for me to trust any government to do it right.

So forget about abused and neglected children? Nobody is arguing for the death penalty here, but some sort of a mechanism to remind parents that they should care about what their children eat.

[ndpnic]

If a child spends the first 4 years of their life with parents A & B, then a year alone with parent B, then 3 years with parents A & B during which they become obese, then 4 years with parents B & C during which they become more obese, after which they spend the rest of their childhood with parent C who would you like to blame?

Also, parent A was an alcoholic who was drunk during the time the child became obese. Parent B is certifiably insane. Parent C is a single parent. The child is NOT inactive, food is NOT used to parent, and parent C is not obese. The child simply eats too much and food is too readily available at school for it to make a difference if diet is regulated at home.

Legistlating parenting is too messy and too complicated for me to trust any government to do it right.

A fair better solution in my opinion would be to educate the children themselves. If children were taught about nutrition they would be able to make healthier choices.

It does not matter if the kid live with parent A or parent B, or a fosterhome.

WHOEVER the child resides with is RESPOSIBLE for the Child's health, wether it's for a week or for a day.

The ADULT is resposible for the chils weight, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!

I would hope the insane alcoholic would have their kids taken away, before these factors made their kids fat!!!!

[Choke]

So forget about abused and neglected children? Nobody is arguing for the death penalty here, but some sort of a mechanism to remind parents that they should care about what their children eat.

Abused children already fall through the cracks most of the time. What sort of mechanism would you suggest?

WHOEVER the child resides with is RESPOSIBLE for the Child's health, wether it's for a week or for a day.

Ok, so then what exactly would you do about it...start grabbing every fat kid you see and sticking them in foster homes?

I would hope the insane alcoholic would have their kids taken away, before these factors made their kids fat!!!!

Hope into one hand and crap into the other, see which one fills up first.

[Cartman]

Ok, so then what exactly would you do about it...start grabbing every fat kid you see and sticking them in foster homes?

Eliminate any pop, chips etc from all vending machines and replace them with pure fruit juices and other healthy snacks. Give physical education a more prominent role in school. I see no problem with schools sending out nutritional information and education initiatives to make kids more healthy. I also think that more pressure can be applied to parents whose children are really obese. I mean when kids are at risk of heart attacks, we have a serious problem.

[brianw]

How exactly would you make a child exercise? You can't force them to. Heck if a child refuses to do the dishes without getting enough of an alowance what can you do as aparent?

Legislation won't work and punishing parents when parents don't have any control any more won't work. Kids go to school and learn that they can say no. Look at the 5 year old in the US several years ago that called 911 because he didn't get his favourite (sugar loaded) cereal for breakfast. How do parents cope? Many don't they just give up.

[Cartman]

How exactly would you make a child exercise? You can't force them to. Heck if a child refuses to do the dishes without getting enough of an alowance what can you do as aparent?

My wife was a teacher and she complained that children were too restless! It seems to me that all we have to do is tap into this natural desire for activity. Exercise is fun and kids learn informal rules at the same time. It is the adults who need to change.

Give teachers more incentive to engage in extra-curricular activities (i.e. a slight reduction in teaching load), make physical education a required component of passing and the positive results will pour in. Send out invites to parents to help out or at least watch their children play against/with others. Nag parents if need be and in extreme circumstances, principles should request meetings with parents who do not participate and have obese children. Education should be regarded as a priviledge, not a right to a baby sitting service for those who work.

Just a slight measure of reintegrative shaming is in order for such neglectful parents.

I can understand people suffering from a lack of food, but not from too much of it.

[Stoker]

Does this mean that you also wish the government to go after very skinny children's parents? What about the short children? Kids with bad teeth? Learning disorders? Red haired children? Kids that pick their nose? etc etc

The lefts idea's about making the "perfect children" sounds an awful lot like some sort of Kanadische Hitler Jugend............

[playfullfellow]

Personally I don't think going after parents with obese kids is a priority. There are more pressing issues when it comes to kids that we need to look after first.

If you want to change the problem, you have to teach people that a bag of chips, kraft dinner and KFC are not a full course meal. The same goes for rotten ronnies, this is not food that is supposed to constitute regular meals. People have to learn how to cook proper meals again. This meals in boxes and cans just isn't good enough. Throw the frikken microwave out and learn how to cook a real meal.

[Cartman]

Stoker Posted on Dec 1 2004, 11:47 PM

Does this mean that you also wish the government to go after very skinny children's parents? What about the short children? Kids with bad teeth? Learning disorders? Red haired children? Kids that pick their nose? etc etc

The following, which I have already asserted, are not extreme measures Stoker.

I have suggested that teachers be given minor "perks" in exchange for participating in the physical education of students. This is not exactly a radical idea.

Give teachers more incentive to engage in extra-curricular activities (i.e. a slight reduction in teaching load), make physical education a required component of passing and the positive results will pour in.

I have also stated that parents be given greater opportunities to participate in this endeavour. i.e.

Send out invites to parents to help out or at least watch their children play against/with others.

In extreme circumstances (i.e. where a small child is heavier than a much taller and older adult teacher and parents do not participate in their child's education), I have argued that parent(s) be asked to discuss their child's health with the principal of the school. i.e.

if need be and in extreme circumstances, principles should request meetings with parents who do not participate and have obese children.

There is nothing extreme, radical or left about this at all. This is pretty common-sense. How many parents would find this so communist and object? Teachers should pay attention to the physical characteristics of their students and ensure their well-being. This includes being too heavy (obese), too skinny (starving), having learning disorders, having many bruises (beaten) or suffering from frostbite. What is your suggestion? Just ignore it in the name of not being "left"?

The lefts idea's about making the "perfect children" sounds an awful lot like some sort of Kanadische Hitler Jugend............

You know what Stoker? My grandfather (German) spent 9.5 years in a Soviet hard labour camp after the war and suffered greatly. It pisses me off when people like you compare life in Canada to that in Germany during or after the war so don't give me that bullshit buddy!! There is a difference between brainwashing children and caring for them.

[playfullfellow]

Physical activity is not the end all be all to solving the problem of obese chidren, yes, it is certainly a big help and a very necessary part of a kids life, but it is not the only solution. Every aspect from nutrition to exercise has to be balanced into a kids life. This includes how many hours of sleep they get, how much tv or video games the get to see and whether they get a ride to go a couple of blocks to do something.

The worst problem is that as parents, a lot of us do not set a very good example. We eat like crap, drive every where and plop our big arses down in front of the boob tube every night while supper cooks in the microwave. Then we sit around at night eating chips and crap until we go to bed, usually too late so we don't get enough sleep. The kids usually don't get enough sleep either because we don't want to listen to them whine when we tell them to get ready for bed and they figure it is not time to do so.

Kids learn by example. I grew up watching my folks work hard everyday on the farm. I learned to work hard and to live a decent life. We, as parents, have to set a good example for our kids, it is not enough just to preach the way to live life, we also have to show by example. If we don't, the kids will just ignore us, which they may do anyways but at least we will be trying to improve our own lives and theirs.

[Stoker]

I have suggested that teachers be given minor "perks" in exchange for participating in the physical education of students. This is not exactly a radical idea.

teachers are already paid with tax payer money.......if you want to add increased physical active to the cirrculum why give the teachers perks instead of changing what they have to teach? This sounds like Union appeasment.......

I have also stated that parents be given greater opportunities to participate in this endeavour. i.e.

And if none or very few parents respond, that will be it?

In extreme circumstances (i.e. where a small child is heavier than a much taller and older adult teacher and parents do not participate in their child's education), I have argued that parent(s) be asked to discuss their child's health with the principal of the school. i.e.

So school principles are now qualifed to diagnose health problems?

There is nothing extreme, radical or left about this at all. This is pretty common-sense. How many parents would find this so communist and object?

How many parents would like to be told how to raise their children?

Teachers should pay attention to the physical characteristics of their students and ensure their well-being. This includes being too heavy (obese), too skinny (starving), having learning disorders, having many bruises (beaten) or suffering from frostbite. What is your suggestion? Just ignore it in the name of not being "left"?

So teachers are now aloud to judge which children they deem too fat? How do we also know that skinny kids are starving, and are not...just..skinny?

As for my suggestion, I agree with increasing PE programs at schools and having healthier food and drink served/sold at schools......but the state shouldn't be interfering with every faucet of the family unit.....

I'm sure you think it's wrong for the state to be meddling in a person's bedroom.......how is meddling in their kitchen/living room any different?

You know what Stoker? My grandfather (German) spent 9.5 years in a Soviet hard labour camp after the war and suffered greatly. It pisses me off when people like you compare life in Canada to that in Germany during or after the war so don't give me that bullshit buddy!! There is a difference between brainwashing children and caring for them.

Where is the line between the state "brainwashing them" and "caring for them"? Why not allow the parents to care for them?

Also, for somebody with such a negative event in their family, I'd think you would be opposed to increased state controls.......be they in a Nazi or Soviet fashion.

[Cartman]

IMO, we should be very watchful and maybe even a little suspicious of state actions b/c there is always the potential for oppression. But, in order to really solve a lot of problems in society, we require collective responses.

Child obesity is a problem in society and it costs us. It costs us b/c people are using the health care system for preventable diseases caused by being too heavy and sedentary. Obesity and being very overweight are suspected to soon overtake smoking as the most common preventable disease. This is really sad because as I already said, kids are naturally active and want to climb the walls in school but we currently spend too much time making them sit still in front of computers.

I am not saying brainwash them, but certainly make them realize the value of being in good phyisical shape and healthy nutrition. I do not understand why the government spends so much time and resources encouraging adults to stop smoking, but seem to do little to encourage kids to live healthy lives. I do think that if a small child is so fat that they are at a high risk of having a heart attack, then this is a form of neglect and a little bit of persuasion may be enough to alter the current trend. I suspect that any costs incurred would be saved in the long run by reduced health care expenditures.

[Cartman]

Stoker said:

The lefts idea's about making the "perfect children" sounds an awful lot like some sort of Kanadische Hitler Jugend............

Hey Stoker? Just received an email from my dad about your stupid, assinine reference to "Canadian Hitler youth". He mentioned that when he was in the first grade in Germany, he learned how to throw a hand grenade. Did you learn how to do that in Canada buddy? He learned that Jews with horns on their heads were lurking in the forests waiting to eat German kids. Did you learn that kind of fear in a Canadian school during physical education?

Yeah, learning how to throw hand grenades and learning about nutrition are precisely the same. Maybe you should realize that many Germans feel an incredible amount of guilt about what happened during the war before you open your mouth you idiot. Why bring up such suffering needlessly? Before you engage in the usual stupid, verbal masturbation, you should know what you are talking about. Damn you are dumb.

I understand when people refer to the lessons that should be learned from this era. I have no problem with that. But when stupid, inapproriate analogies are made to foods and nutrition classes, it makes me really angry. At one point, I think it was Argus who said that when someone makes an anaolgy to Hitler, they lose all credibility. Unfortunately, you have none to lose.

[shackwacky]

As a parent: I am lucky.

I have four happy healthy kids. All my kids are active, we have an acreage and pets and limited tv and very little access to junk foods and sugars. We home cook 90% of our meals. Our kids walk and bike in the summer, sled and ski in the winter. (Yes, we do too, but not as much). I have cable tv for the months October to March, it is turned off regularily in the summer months. I coach baseball and soccer, and all my kids play on one team or another.

Three of my kids are slim and fit. One is not. He does have access to junk food etc at the school, but this can not possibly explain the complete difference between him and the others. What do I do? I try really hard to make sure that he knows that he is okay anyway, and I try to promote healthy living. But I am not going to starve this kid to bring him in line with what researchers feel are healthy parameters.

So I should be "investigated" as an irresponsible parent? Bring it on. I can remember obese kids when I was young, before McD's and TV took over, before everything was prepackaged and microwaves were the center of the kitchen. When Moms' stayed home and kids walked everywhere, there were always the overweights who got teased and picked on.

The bigger problem now is obesity in adults. Ask the overweight adult, they will tell you.....I was fine till...I left home...I got a job...I had a baby...I got chronic fatigue syndrome (bleck).

Stay off the parents backs.

[playfullfellow]

Three of my kids are slim and fit. One is not. He does have access to junk food etc at the school, but this can not possibly explain the complete difference between him and the others.

This is a perfect example of why the government or any of it's agency's should not be able to go after parents with kids who are "considered" obese. I can remember there being some overweight kids when I went to school. Some were from hereditery problems, others health problems and some because they ate 3 chickens and a dozen eggs a day. But you know, they were generally fairly active, healthy and down to earth. What standards do we use to consider a kid obese? Who decides what is obese? What about kids that have other eating disorders, they are putting themselves at much more risk with binge dieting and popping pills and crap to keep themselves skinny. As parents, we have the duty to do the best for our kids that we can with what ever we have. Somebody else who has better financial resources can maybe do bigger and better things for their kids than I can but are their kids better off? No matter what, we will never have kids that fit one mold and thats the way it should be. As long as you feed your kids right, give them lots of love and be good parents to them, then the government can stay the heck out of your life. There are far more urgent problems than having parents watch dogged because their kids have a weight problem.

[shackwacky]

Thanks for that Playfull.

To illustrate your point. Our nearest neighbours had a daughter who was overweight. They had the money and the resources, so they sent her to a clinic down in Calgary for eating disorders. She came back very thin, and with a self esteem to match. Last fall she took a whole bunch of sleeping pills and left a note that "she wasn't good enough". She was then 97 pounds.

Too much emphasis somewhere. God help me from ever saddling my kids with that.

[caesar]

Often it is not the parent's fault. Many kids just don't have the right metabolism. Poorer families feed their kids too much starchy food that is cheaper. A good diet with fresh vegetables, fruits, etc is not cheap. When kids have two working parents; their breakfast probably consists of sugary ready to eat cereals. Parents should be helped and encouraged to make sure children eat a healthier diet and lead a more active life style. Turn off the tv and shut down the computer/ nintendo etc. Go for a walk or bike ride with your kids in the evening. Unfortunately when children have two working parents children do not always get the time devoted to them that they should.

A crime??? No but it is a shame if there are no extenuating circumstances such as a metabolic disorder.