Freedom of Speech?

[drummindiver]

Recently, Anjem Choudary was jailed for asking his supporters to support ISIS. I agree with free speech and abhor censorship, but feel this was the right call. Any opinions?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33784926

[Guest]

Given the UK is at war with the Islamic State, albeit undeclared, it was treason. Shoot him.

[DogOnPorch]

Islam in general has no interest in freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means freedom to criticize the Quran and Muhammad...a sin.

[Big Guy]

There are now well over 1,000 British troops fighting ISIS. Not sure if they have officially declared war against ISIS but that might be a moot point. To give support and comfort to the enemy is treason. Treat it as such.

[The_Squid]

Islam in general has no interest in freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means freedom to criticize the Quran and Muhammad...a sin.

So you think he should be allowed to say what he did, or you don't? You kind of went off on a straw man there...

[DogOnPorch]

So you think he should be allowed to say what he did, or you don't? You kind of went off on a straw man there...

Andy should be doing hard time for things besides what he said.

[DogOnPorch]

...and Andy has no interest in your freedom of speech...just his.

[The_Squid]

If he is inciting violence, then free speech doesn't apply... it has limits, like any other right.

He seems to be breaking the support provisions of the terrorism act in the UK.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/12

I don't know much about it, but I have no issues jailing people who support terrorist organizations.

[The_Squid]

Andy should be doing hard time for things besides what he said.

...and Andy has no interest in your freedom of speech...just his.

But for the things he said... should he go to jail? You seem to be avoiding the actual question.

[DogOnPorch]

I'm not a judge...neither are you.

However, Andy is responsible for Lee Rigby....in my opinion. And Islam as a doctrine still isn't interested in freedom of speech.

You are free to now report me....the button in on the lower right.

[Guest]

Everybody who posts on here agrees that freedom of speech should not be limitless. I think that the limits already in place suffice, those against incitement, slander, disturbing the peace etc, and no limits should be put on anything that simply gives offence. For instance, I might not like:

"When Sharia Law is implemented, maybe in 10 or 15 years’ time, she [the Queen] would be expected like all women in Britain to be covered from head to toe, only revealing her face and hands."

But I wouldn't jail him for that.

[The_Squid]

I'm not a judge...neither are you.

However, Andy is responsible for Lee Rigby....in my opinion. And Islam as a doctrine still isn't interested in freedom of speech.

You are free to now report me....the button in on the lower right.

I can certainly have an opinion on free speech and the laws governing speech. Only judges can have opinions on laws? What kind of nonsense is that?

Why would I report you?

[DogOnPorch]

Andy is the most hated man in the UK...and he was born there.

He's on record being against freedom of speech. Period. Unless it's his speech, of course. He's quite happy to talk over anyone he is having a 'conversation' with.

However, he should have been locked-up long ago for his involvement in the Lee Rigby murder. That what bothers me...not what he says which is click bait.

[dre]

Recently, Anjem Choudary was jailed for asking his supporters to support ISIS. I agree with free speech and abhor censorship, but feel this was the right call. Any opinions?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33784926

If hes directly inciting violence it should be a crime. Otherwise no.

[dre]

Andy is the most hated man in the UK...and he was born there.

He's on record being against freedom of speech. Period. Unless it's his speech, of course. He's quite happy to talk over anyone he is having a 'conversation' with.

However, he should have been locked-up long ago for his involvement in the Lee Rigby murder. That what bothers me...not what he says which is click bait.

That's a really cool story bro!... That has nothing to do with question asked in the OP.

[The_Squid]

I'm not a judge...neither are you.

However, he should have been locked-up long ago for his involvement in the Lee Rigby murder. That what bothers me...not what he says which is click bait.

You're not a judge.... Why do you have an opinion about this, but not the OP?

[Bonam]

Recently, Anjem Choudary was jailed for asking his supporters to support ISIS.

That's not what the article you linked says. From the article:

Mr Choudary, of Ilford in east London, and Mohammed Rahman, 32, of Whitechapel in east London, were arrested on 25 September last year on suspicion of being members of IS, which is a proscribed organisation.

So the arrest seems to be for membership in a terrorist organization, not free speech. Unless that was talking about a previous arrest, from which he was later freed and now he was arrested again? It's not clear from the article. In either case, the person in question seems to be a member of various terrorist organizations (including al-Muhajiroun as well as IS).

As to the intent of the question... "should the government be able to arrest someone for advocating support for a terrorist organization"? I would say no. That is because it is entirely up to the government to designate what a terrorist organization is, and so if the government can simply define any group as terrorist and then arrest anyone who supports it, then that opens the door for all kinds of abuses.

The real solution to all these problems is to stop importing millions of people from areas where support for these terrorist groups is most commonplace, stop butting our noses into the middle-east, and let the homegrown stuff simmer down.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Bonam

[DogOnPorch]

You're not a judge.... Why do you have an opinion about this, but not the OP?

The OP is free to have any opinion he wishes.

Andy isn't new on the scene. He's a big boy and being a lawyer as well as a self-inflicted welfare case, knows how to push his 'rights' to the limit of British Law...usually...not this time.

The report button is on the lower right. Over there----->

[Argus]

If hes directly inciting violence it should be a crime. Otherwise no.

Are you similarly against hate speech laws?

[dre]

Are you similarly against hate speech laws?

Yeah. Same position there. If speech directly encourages or incites violence then I guess something has to be done, but in all other cases no.

[dre]

So the arrest seems to be for membership in a terrorist organization, not free speech.

Being a member of an organization that the government doesn't like should be legal too. Whether its the KKK, or ISIL. As long as you don't directly violate the criminal code.

Thought should never be a crime. Moral support should never be a crime. Membership in an organization should never be a crime (thats guilt by association). Committing a CRIME should be a crime.

[Argus]

Yeah. Same position there. If speech directly encourages or incites violence then I guess something has to be done, but in all other cases no.

Define 'directly'. For example, should saying "You should kill all Jews" be illegal? Or do you have to give a specific name "You should kill John Strindberg."

On the other hand, if instead of saying that you give long speeches on how Jews are evil and cruel and are killing babies to drink their blood, and how Jews are controlling the world and stealing everyone's money to enrich themselves and abusing your women and conspiring to destroy your country, should that be fine? Even if it winds up inspiring people to go out and kill Jews?

Edited August 19, 2016 by Argus

[Guest]

Define 'directly'. For example, should saying "You should kill all Jews" be illegal? Or do you have to give a specific name "You should kill John Strindberg."

On the other hand, if instead of saying that you give long speeches on how Jews are evil and cruel and are killing babies to drink their blood, and how Jews are controlling the world and stealing everyone's money to enrich themselves and abusing your women and conspiring to destroy your country, should that be fine? Even if it winds up inspiring people to go out and kill Jews?

If someone does the former couple it should be illegal.

If someone does the latter someone should say, "Oh no they aren't".

[Argus]

If someone does the former couple it should be illegal.

If someone does the latter someone should say, "Oh no they aren't".

Even if the latter is obviously causing ignorant people to carry out violent physical attacks on Jews?

[dre]

Define 'directly'. For example, should saying "You should kill all Jews" be illegal?

It should IF that speech had a reasonable chance of causing that action. If I walked up to a random person on the street and said "You should kill all jews", then no. I have no influence over that person, and Im not in a position to incite anything. Same if I screamed "Every life form in the universe must die!".

If however I'm speaking to an audience that considers me an authority on "jew killing", then my directive has a chance of being implemented, and it could be considered incitement.

It would be extremely rare that I would want to prosecute someone for just saying or thinking something. There would basically have to be a criminal conspiracy under way involving people likely to take that speech seriously and act on the "You should kill all Jews" directive.