Fort McMurray wildfire

[Smallc]

No, but then they are busy.......Trudeau met with Alex Trebek last week to try and get Canadians back on Jeopardy.

Trebek was, of course, in Ottawa to give a large donation to the University of Ottawa. He met with Trudeau in his office for about 5 minutes.

[Derek 2.0]

I can't help you if you aren't willing to acknowledge that there are jurisdictional issues involved.

Weren't you tooting Trudeau's horn in this thread over the DND sending some old army cots?

Syrians get hotels and Fort Mac residents get army cots on barn floors and a case of the galloping trots.......

[Derek 2.0]

Trebek was, of course, in Ottawa to give a large donation to the University of Ottawa. He met with Trudeau in his office for about 5 minutes.

And that's the point, Trudeau is in Ottawa......think of the selfies he could get with all the grateful folks he's supporting with cots not fit for Syrian refugees.....

[Smallc]

Weren't you tooting Trudeau's horn in this thread over the DND sending some old army cots?

You mean the ones requested by the Province of Alberta?

Syrians get hotels and Fort Mac residents get army cots on barn floors and a case of the galloping trots.......

Take it up with Notley.

[Derek 2.0]

They can carry twice as much water...after landing and having their tanks filled. The 415 can fill its tanks from most bodies of water in 12 seconds.

415s don't need fuel?

[Smallc]

And that's the point, Trudeau is in Ottawa......think of the selfies he could get with all the grateful folks he's supporting with cots not fit for Syrian refugees.....

I'm sure he'll go soon. Until yesterday it was an active disaster area/evacuation operation.

[Smallc]

415s don't need fuel?

Not every time they fill up with water.

[Derek 2.0]

Not every time they fill up with water.

And what happens to the 415s load capacity from water?

If one tanker carries three times the capacity as another, including fire gel and retardant with each load, with a faster cruising speed and enough fuel to fly across Canada etc.........you're still suggesting the aircraft with far less capacity is more effective?

Maybe there is a reason that the largest aerial tanker company in the world (Conair) relies more on large tankers, and there is a market to convert large former jet liners and military transports into aerial tankers........

[Smallc]

Maybe there is a reason that the largest aerial tanker company in the world (Conair) relies more on large tankers, and there is a market to convert large former jet liners and military transports into aerial tankers........

Maybe there's a reason that places with a lot of forrest fires and bodies of water have the 415 (BC, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland, France, Greece). Places without bodies of water don't have much need for arial boats.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Once a tanker that isn't a boat dumps its load, it's back to base. There are plenty of lakes near Fort Mac to mean that it's seconds to the fire after fill up in many cases for the 415.

[Derek 2.0]

Maybe there's a reason that places with a lot of forrest fires and bodies of water have the 415 (BC, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland, France, Greece). Places without bodies of water don't have much need for arial boats.

Conair is a BC company.........and the world largest amphib is based in BC.....thanks for coming out though.

[Smallc]

Conair is a BC company.........and the world largest amphib is based in BC.....thanks for coming out though.

The Martin Mars is apparently too big, and needs a large body of water.

BC operates 4 CL-215Ts, the successor to the CL-215 and predecessor of the Bombardier 415.

Anyway, back to Syrian refugees, or whatever we were talking about.

[Derek 2.0]

Once a tanker that isn't a boat dumps its load, it's back to base. There are plenty of lakes near Fort Mac to mean that it's seconds to the fire after fill up in many cases for the 415.

And once a "boat" dumps its load its to the lake to scoop a greatly reduced load of water and hopefully not hit a deadhead......not gel, not retardant.....water.....meanwhile an Electra, Herc etc drops in one pass what your boat carries in total......

[Smallc]

And once a "boat" dumps its load its to the lake to scoop a greatly reduced load of water and hopefully not hit a deadhead......not gel, not retardant.

That is true of the 215 and 215T - not the 415:

The 415 can scoop up to 6,140 litres (1350 Imperial gal or 1,620 US gal) of water from a nearby water source, mix it with a chemical foam if desired, and drop it on a fire without having to return to base to refill its tanks.

[Derek 2.0]

The Martin Mars is apparently too big, and needs a large body of water.

BC operates 4 CL-215Ts, the successor to the CL-215 and predecessor of the Bombardier 415.

Anyway, back to Syrian refugees, or whatever we were talking about.

Right, because the transit time to the nearest larger lake isn't worth it for the Mars......leaving the largest aircraft being Electra tankers, with three times (or more) the carriage of a waterborne 415.......And BC doesn't operate 215s....

[msj]

I understand that women don't buy 3" dildos.

Not sure how that is relevant but just wanted to throw it out there that bigger must be better.

Always.

Unless it's going in behind, then women, or perhaps it's men, do buy 3" dildos.

But different strokes for different folks and different tasks for the master and all that.

Not sure what I'm getting at here....

[BC_chick]

I think your point is that size matters. Indeed, this is true of the number of firefighters.. And other things.

[Derek 2.0]

That is true of the 215 and 215T - not the 415:

The 415 can scoop up to 6,140 litres (1350 Imperial gal or 1,620 US gal) of water from a nearby water source, mix it with a chemical foam if desired, and drop it on a fire without having to return to base to refill its tanks.

You understand they load the foaming agent from an 18 wheeler tanker.......on land.....not in the middle of a lake

But to return to the point, the tanker contractors Electras (not counting the rest of their fleets fighting the fire, helicopters or other contractors) carry far more water/retardant/gel then the 415s, and your claim that four Quebec 415s equaled the capacity already in Alberta is bogus........and doesn't explain why Trudeau rejected countless international offers other than political vanity.

[msj]

I think your point is that size matters. Indeed, this is true of the number of firefighters.. And other things.

Ok but don't start posting pictures....

[Derek 2.0]

I think your point is that size matters. Indeed, this is true of the number of firefighters.. And other things.

Exactly, and doesn't explain why Trudeau is turning down international offers of assistance....other than politics.

[msj]

Ok but don't start posting pictures....

...of big burly firemen!

[Smallc]

BC doesn't operate 215s....

You're right - it's Conair that does.

[Smallc]

You understand they load the foaming agent from an 18 wheeler tanker.......on land.....not in the middle of a lake

Yeah, and it can be stored and mixed over several drops.

But to return to the point, the tanker contractors Electras (not counting the rest of their fleets fighting the fire, helicopters or other contractors) carry far more water/retardant/gel then the 415s

That was never in dispute. Gallons per hour is the measure of importance.

and doesn't explain why Trudeau rejected countless international offers other than political vanity.

According to the information available to you, we declined the help because it wouldn't be helpful. If you have other information, provide it.

[BC_chick]

Exactly, and doesn't explain why Trudeau is turning down international offers of assistance....other than politics.

The lack of explanation is the most perplexing part to me, otherwise I would try and understand. But a 'nah, we got this sucker under control' as it gets massively more and more out of control every day seems pretty strange.

But but but Goodale said we don't need them so it must be true....

[Smallc]

But but but Goodale said we don't need them so it must be true....

Has anyone provided evidence that the offers of help would be useful in bringing the fire under control?