overthere Posted December 16, 2015 Report Posted December 16, 2015 "Giant lumps of easy cash" ... it might be "easy", but shaking down Joe Six Pack for an extra $50 in April is hardly "giant lumps".You think Revenue Canada gives a rats ass about chasing Joe Six Pack for $50?. They might invest $.03 worth of computer time and a stamp in reminding him of a math error or a forgotten info slip. Auditors spend little time on Joe , their focus is obviously on small business. Joe has no deductions anyway. My dear friend the former auditor advised that she made the bulk of her assigned quota(about half a million per year) in minutes. Auditors use databases to identify anomalies in businesses of the same type, then send masses of vaguely threatening letters advising same that they have this one and only opportunity to review and amend their returns. She actually had no idea if any of them was scamming they were just anomalies and outliers. The $ pour in, many have been a little adveturous and don't want a detailed examination.. Giant lumps of easy cash. The actual hard work was flagging and proving those that were more creative in their theft accounting. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
overthere Posted December 16, 2015 Report Posted December 16, 2015 Give the CRA the the resources to pursue these crooks and you'd see "giant lumps of cash".No, not unless you outspend them, and even that might not work. Nobody wants to go to jail, so the tax dodges employed by corps are nearly always entirely legal. The problem is not tax evasion, which I don't think is endemic. It's not tax avoidance, which every taxpaying person and company in Canada does. The problem is the tax code itself. It is far too complicated and provides too many outs for everybody. Give CRA the resources to rewrite the tax laws and regulations, then you'll have a shot at collecting more from big taxpayers. Make the system much simpler, with far fewer exemptions and no precedents to employ the legions of accountants and lawyers. One caveat: the purpose is not to increase tax load, it is to make it easier to understand/apply and collect tax. If you insist on making one group pay far more, they simply take their money and leave, taking jobs (and taxes) with them. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
eyeball Posted December 16, 2015 Report Posted December 16, 2015 Political interference was never mentioned at that level. If it happened it would have been higher. No one over the director level was a member of the working group. I don't have any direct evidence of political interference as those in the article allege. I do have direct experience with what the budget cuts cost us in terms of policing and combating fraud, not to mention simple customer service. What do you think of the allegations? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Posted December 16, 2015 What do you think of the allegations? How did adscam and shawingate happen? Politicians influencing senior public servants, who, let's face it, generally will do what they're told, even if they might not like it. If someone in the PMO or some senior party guy decided that prosecuting so-and-so was not in the interest of the party for whatever reason, I can see someone having a quiet word with the Commissioner or one of the Assistant Commissioners of CRA. Senior public servants are ass lickers and will cave in a second. I was not involved with individual audits, so I couldn't say in this instance. I wouldn't reject it out of hand, though. I have heard of a number of cases of powerful people with influence being exempted from rules others have to follow, and that goes back to Pierre Trudeau's time. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 16, 2015 Report Posted December 16, 2015 It probably goes back to when we still lived in trees. Just lke lampooning people who point it out or suggest measures to deal with it. You've said it yourself that money is power and even suggested that's as it should be so why shouldn't we audit the power of powerful individuals any less than we do the wealth of wealthy individuals? I agree power and wealth are almost like time and space they're so close to being one and the same thing and we should treat them the same way too. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Posted December 16, 2015 It probably goes back to when we still lived in trees. Just lke lampooning people who point it out or suggest measures to deal with it. You've said it yourself that money is power and even suggested that's as it should be so why shouldn't we audit the power of powerful individuals any less than we do the wealth of wealthy individuals? I've always been in favour of more open government. Did I ever at any time express approval of the way the Harper government kept every single bit of information as close to its vest as top secret military plans? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 16, 2015 Report Posted December 16, 2015 You seemed to imply it when expressing disapproval for people who blew whistles on him. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Posted December 16, 2015 You seemed to imply it when expressing disapproval for people who blew whistles on him. What whistles? If someone has a legitimate case of a government agency not doing its job, such as here, and is willing to brave the possible repercussions, good on them. If it's some clown who wants to make a "I hate the government" song, or some whiny scientist complaining that he's being ignored on climate science I have less sympathy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 17, 2015 Report Posted December 17, 2015 What scientists? Scientists who complained that science was being ignored on a routine basis. Fisheries, environmental, social, economic, climate too...thousands of scientists. All I see here is a small handful of accountants raising a rather timid flag on a very small tip of a very large iceberg. Give us a call when 1000's of you are being fired and muzzled I guess. Shouldn't be long now given how unaccountable Liberals are said to be. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Icebound Posted December 19, 2015 Report Posted December 19, 2015 The real culprit is the Byzantine labyrinth of contradictory tax law and regulation. If the govt wishes to up their take from corporations, they need to address that. This whole thread just screams "we need a huge expansion of financial Transaction Taxation", and cut out the "byzantine labyrinth", as you put it. Withdraw a dollar, bank withholds a teeny percentage for the taxman. Deposit a dollar, same thing. Cash a cheque, same thing. Direct deposit, same thing. Buy a beer, retailer adds an extra percentage for the tax man buy a car, same thing. buy a stock, same thing, sell a stock, same thing.... Individual? Corporation? Wholesaler? doesn't matter. same thing. etc. etc. Fraud opportunities diminish greatly. Quote
Argus Posted December 20, 2015 Author Report Posted December 20, 2015 This whole thread just screams "we need a huge expansion of financial Transaction Taxation", and cut out the "byzantine labyrinth", as you put it. Withdraw a dollar, bank withholds a teeny percentage for the taxman. Deposit a dollar, same thing. Cash a cheque, same thing. Direct deposit, same thing. Buy a beer, retailer adds an extra percentage for the tax man buy a car, same thing. buy a stock, same thing, sell a stock, same thing.... Individual? Corporation? Wholesaler? doesn't matter. same thing. etc. etc. Fraud opportunities diminish greatly. And in the news today, an assessment by Treasury Board suggests 80% of the Canadian economy is now conducted on the black market on a cash-only basis. Meanwhile, the Bank of Montreal closed own its last branch last week as Canadians continue to put their money into US and foreign banks. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 21, 2015 Report Posted December 21, 2015 And in the news today, an assessment by Treasury Board suggests 80% of the Canadian economy is now conducted on the black market on a cash-only basis. Meanwhile, the Bank of Montreal closed own its last branch last week as Canadians continue to put their money into US and foreign banks. $10 says it's the topmost earners in Canada conducting all this cash-only business. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 I don't see the problem with going after low hanging fruit. Big corporations have better accountants and lawyers than CRA, and it is far harder to make a profit from pursuing them . The auditors tend to do what is most profitable, they aren't assessed on what they might collect but what they do collect. I'm not sure that is so wrong. . To me, that is disgracefully wrong. Such rules should apply to rich and poor alike. Equality before the law and all that. Unfortunately, this attitude is not confined to Canada and is at least as bad in Ireland and the U.K. Quote
hitops Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Sounds like tin-foiled hat conspiracy stuff to me. Imagine engineering the appearance of government mismanagement by political interferers for the benefit of their wealthy powerful friends. Surely even you can see the irony in this comment. Back to the OP subject, plucking low hanging fruit is an efficient way of getting a return on the money, our money. Pursuing easy pickings costs little in CRA overhead. Would you rather they expend huge sums for less return to the taxpayer? What exactly is your objection? That they don't catch everybody? The idea that we would value pragmatism over equal treatment when it comes to the CRA, is deeply concerning. Give CRA the resources to rewrite the tax laws and regulations, then you'll have a shot at collecting more from big taxpayers. So your belief is that it is the CRA, who writes tax law and regulation? $10 says it's the topmost earners in Canada conducting all this cash-only business. That's ridiculous on it's face, considering the difficulty in moving cash of that magnitude. Perhaps the highest earning drug kingpins, but nobody else. Your anti-rich campaign is goofy, but the sad part is that you don't understand that the mechanisms you support from government to supposedly punish them, just make them stronger and richer and send more middle-income jobs outta here. The biggest corps love more rules and regs, because it punishes their smaller competitors far more than them. They already have the teams of lawyers and accountants to deal with it, but the small guys don't. They already have ways to avoid more taxes, but the small guys don't. More government inference just means more monopolies and more dominance by the biggest players, and less competition and less work for the rest. Edited January 11, 2016 by hitops Quote
Argus Posted January 11, 2016 Author Report Posted January 11, 2016 CRA is short of staff, but that hasn't stopped the government from levying them for help on the refugee resettlement program. The government is levying individual departments to work on the refugee thing, requesting volunteers who would be willing to shift jobs for a few months or more. The money will come out of the departmental budgets, which I think is so it will be hard to figure out how much is being spent. When someone I know called about it he was told to not bother sending a resume, just to send his request with his current occupational level, because they're too overwhelmed to look at resumes. He was also told that he should send in any questions, but they will only be answered in person or over the phone -- so that they can't be ATIPd. The following is to provide further information to the Message to employees - Seeking employees to support major initiative - issued on InfoZone on December 17, 2015. The purpose of this message was to seek federal government employee participation in a new Interdepartmental Event Team created to support our government’s commitment to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada. Interdepartmental employment agreements, such as Interchange assignments, will not be established for this initiative. Participating employees will remain in their substantive position and all expenses (salary, travel, overtime, shift premiums, etc.) will be paid by the home organization, under the terms and conditions of the respective collective agreement. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 Surely even you can see the irony in this comment. Only in the context of the OP's propensity to write off most other people's concerns about government action or inaction as the case may be that benefits wealthier influential people as conspiratorial nonsense. Must just be a coincidence this time. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) That's ridiculous on it's face, considering the difficulty in moving cash of that magnitude. Perhaps the highest earning drug kingpins, but nobody else. Your anti-rich campaign is goofy, but the sad part is that you don't understand that the mechanisms you support from government to supposedly punish them, just make them stronger and richer and send more middle-income jobs outta here. The biggest corps love more rules and regs, because it punishes their smaller competitors far more than them. They already have the teams of lawyers and accountants to deal with it, but the small guys don't. They already have ways to avoid more taxes, but the small guys don't. You've obviously completely misunderstood that I'm simply trying to campaign for the un-rich. More government inference just means more monopolies and more dominance by the biggest players, and less competition and less work for the rest. Yes well, again, you've completely misunderstood where I'm coming from. My prescription is for less interference in and monopolization of our government's attention by the biggest players so the rest of us can compete on a more even playing field. Is the idea 'regulating' our government so outside some conservative capacity to build a mental framework around it that they imagine something completely different when they encounter it? A leap to the conclusion that deep accountability and transparency means more rules and regulations for the governed is so common around here it's as cliche as the belief in things like media parties and paying bank presidents no more than a bank teller. It's like Robby the Robot blowing a fuse over aliens approaching. Edited January 11, 2016 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ReeferMadness Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 I don't see the problem with going after low hanging fruit. My good fiend, a former auditor, Freudian typo? lol Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
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