Smallc Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 I mostly had the opposite reaction to that press conference. Suddenly he didn't have a script and he was struggling. I didn't find that at all. For once, he was concrete. Quote
Scotty Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 But he's also very right wing and very much out of the old Reform side of the party. To the extent your friends believe the party needs to move back towards the middle and get away from a lot of the Harper tendencies, Kenney is probably the wrong pick. This idea from a lot of people that the Conservatives lost for being conservative is patently silly. If anything, they failed to excite conservatives by being not very conservative on most matters. Kenney always comes across as calm and good humoured on television, and has never struck me as hyper partisan. When he went on a middle east trip some months back, for example, he invited the opposition defense critics to accompany him. How often did Harper cabinet ministers do that? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 I wonder how Peter Kent feels about Trudeau being Prime Minister. haha Quote
Smallc Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 This idea from a lot of people that the Conservatives lost for being conservative is patently silly. If anything, they failed to excite conservatives by being not very conservative on most matters. That, and they were utterly devoid of ideas. They literally brought nothing to the campaign. Quote
Scotty Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 And here's the nub. The Tory partisans, absolutely and completely incapable of self-reflection, just end up blaming the voters. He wasn't blaming the voters, he was blaming you. Christie Blatchford had an excellent example, taken from John Ibbitson's book about Harper, who, unlike most politicians, is far from an extroverted person. "Though Harper knew the press would be there,” Ibbitson writes, “the situation threw him. “Impulsively, he reached out to Ben and shook his hand, something he would never have done otherwise. “That was enough for bloggers and commentators to conclude that Stephen Harper was an emotionally sterile father (and human being) who couldn’t even muster sufficient intimacy to hug his son.” I remember the moment vividly, and the absolutely savage beating Harper took for it. I even presumed to identify with him because I recognized something of myself in how he acted. Unlike the more modern mortal, who can take selfies of herself with fish lips without a trace of self-consciousness, I also tend to act unnaturally, to freeze up and get all weird, before a camera or a certain kind of crowd. I know a fellow traveler when I see one, and in that awkward man and that awkward handshake, I saw one. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-stephen-harper-was-always-a-political-outsider Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
ToadBrother Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 The result was remarkable, Trudeau was not. He is cringe-worthy. But the anti-Harper sentiment was intense, and voters decided within the last 2 weeks to go Liberal. The polls in the days before the election are consistent with the result. But not a few weeks ago, if the election were held then, we could easily be talking about a Mulcair or Harper victory. And this is why partisans irritate me. They project their own prejudices on the populace. Quote
hitops Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Posted October 21, 2015 And this is why partisans irritate me. They project their own prejudices on the populace. Polling companies are partisans? Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 Polling companies are partisans? Did the pollsters call Trudeau "cringeworthy"? Quote
Scotty Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 Did the pollsters call Trudeau "cringeworthy"? Shall I look back and find some of the things youv'e said about Harper? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
ToadBrother Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 Shall I look back and find some of the things youv'e said about Harper? Go to it. I, however, don't pretend that my personal feelings on his governing style represent the views of wide swathes of Canadians... Mind you, considering the electoral losses of the Tories, I probably have a firmer claim to representing that view than you do on your view of Trudeau. Quote
hitops Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Posted October 21, 2015 Did the pollsters call Trudeau "cringeworthy"? How does calling someone cringeworthy = partisan? Quote
blueblood Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 I wonder if gary doer will be getting called back from washington and if he feels like eventually taking over the federal ndp. Harper stashed him there for a reason... Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Smallc Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 I think he'll be done there, as a reset is needed on relations (not that I think the bad relations were his fault or Harper's). The Obama administration struck a very conciliatory tone when asked about the results. They even were conciliatory towards Harper. Quote
Scotty Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 Go to it. I, however, don't pretend that my personal feelings on his governing style represent the views of wide swathes of Canadians... Mind you, considering the electoral losses of the Tories, I probably have a firmer claim to representing that view than you do on your view of Trudeau. What is my view of Trudeau? And how have I represented it as being the same as 'wide swathes of Canadians"? My point is merely that you are heavily partisan and yet are criticizing those who are heavily partisan. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 I wonder if gary doer will be getting called back from washington and if he feels like eventually taking over the federal ndp. Harper stashed him there for a reason... When did the Left become so paranoid it began to see ulterior motives in every single thing everyone else did or said? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Evening Star Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 When did the Left become so paranoid it began to see ulterior motives in every single thing everyone else did or said?Lol @ blueblood the leftist. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 This idea from a lot of people that the Conservatives lost for being conservative is patently silly. If anything, they failed to excite conservatives by being not very conservative on most matters. Kenney always comes across as calm and good humoured on television, and has never struck me as hyper partisan. ? I presume this question can eventually be answered by the numbers people. My take is that Harper kept the hardcore vote solid at 30% but could not recruit potential Conservative curious centrists this time. Whether this was primarily a content or style problem is another matter. Kenney does give good answers which are worth hearing, certainly compared to common PandP performers like James, Calandra or Gill. He had a few missteps in Defence, for example over what a front line is, but he's an excellent performer. One big question is the single man issue. There is no such thing as privacy any more for a leadership contender. Are Conservatives ready for such a situation? Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 I presume this question can eventually be answered by the numbers people. My take is that Harper kept the hardcore vote solid at 30% but could not recruit potential Conservative curious centrists this time. Whether this was primarily a content or style problem is another matter. Kenney does give good answers which are worth hearing, certainly compared to common PandP performers like James, Calandra or Gill. He had a few missteps in Defence, for example over what a front line is, but he's an excellent performer. One big question is the single man issue. There is no such thing as privacy any more for a leadership contender. Are Conservatives ready for such a situation? I hope Kenney wins. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Smallc Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 I hope Kenney wins. If you want Trudeau in power for another term, you should. Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 If you want Trudeau in power for another term, you should. Please explain. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Smallc Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Please explain. Barring some major disaster in leadership, Kenney won't stand a chance against Trudeau. Edited October 24, 2015 by Smallc Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 Barring some major disaster in leadership, Kenney won't stand a chance against Trudeau. Again, I really would like to learn why. I would pick Kenney over Raitt, because of his ability to communicate. However, my understanding of this subject matter is very poor. I've heard people of MLW hate Kenney, but I haven't read a valid reason why yet. (valid in my books) Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 I'm trying to consider the candidates objectively but I may not really want the best one there. My main exposure to these guys is on CBC shows like PandP. Kenney impressed because he seemed to come up with his own answers rather than relying on PMO boilerplate like Rempel, who did improvise, Calandra, who had a sense of humour, James, who was a bit of a zombie and the utterly dire Parm Gill. This can be dangerous, of course, as he found out at Defence, but it does command respect. Although it could be claimed he never had one of the really big ministries, Immigration has become that in any Western democracy and he certainly left his imprint there. On the campaign front, the pivot to target new Canadians was brilliant and completely unexpected by the likes of me, anyway. It became a third limb in the Reform/PC chimera. On the downside, I would put: another Calgary pol; male; single; small 'sunny ways' rating: BMI. I was surprised at his relatively young age. He looks older and the bod ain't great. There could be health issues ahead. Even Harper got leaner. JT sets a new standard in these matters. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Kenney will perform well in Parliament, as he has already. Were I a Conservative, I would have no worries on that front (actually, as a Lib voter, I am concerned for JT in there). The challenges are more outside the chamber. Is he likeable enough? And can we cope with a single man in charge? It's a long time since Mackenzie King and his Irish terriers. Edited October 24, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 I'm trying to consider the candidates objectively but I may not really want the best one there. My main exposure to these guys is on CBC shows like PandP. Kenney impressed because he seemed to come up with his own answers rather than relying on PMO boilerplate like Rempel, who did improvise, Calandra, who had a sense of humour, James, who was a bit of a zombie and the utterly dire Parm Gill. This can be dangerous, of course, as he found out at Defence, but it does command respect. Although it could be claimed he never had one of the really big ministries, Immigration has become that in any Western democracy and he certainly left his imprint there. On the campaign front, the pivot to target new Canadians was brilliant and completely unexpected by the likes of me, anyway. It became a third limb in the Reform/PC chimera. On the downside, I would put: another Calgary pol; male; single; small 'sunny ways' rating: BMI. I was surprised at his relatively young age. He looks older and the bod ain't great. There could be health issues ahead. Even Harper got leaner. JT sets a new standard in these matters. Do people really care about people's BMI? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
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