ReeferMadness Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 I'm a loyalist. I will always fight for my team. I'm not a traitor like Coyne. Coyne's loyalty is to his principles, not to a party. After 10 years of Harper, I can understand how that p word might seem foreign. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 David Axelrod, former senior adviser to Obama, has tweeted support for Trudeau. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Bryan Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Coyne is an advocate of Classical Liberalism, which is a whole different creature than modern Liberalism. I'm sure if Coyne had his way, Gladstone would have been cloned and made PM. He's not that much of a small "l" liberal in the modern sense, but he definitely is a Liberal Party of Canada partisan. Has been for many years. Quote
Evening Star Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) He's not that much of a small "l" liberal in the modern sense, but he definitely is a Liberal Party of Canada partisan. Has been for many years. Citation requested. He endorsed them, quite grudgingly, in 2011, but I thought he was a supporter of Harper and the Conservatives prior to that. If anything, he started going off the Tories because they weren't conservative enough for him. Edit: I'm fairly certain that he endorsed the Ontario PCs in the last Ontario election. Edit: Found his 2011 Liberal 'endorsement', where he still stated that he preferred the Tories on economic issues. Edited October 18, 2015 by Evening Star Quote
Bryan Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Citation requested. He endorsed them, quite grudgingly, in 2011, but I thought he was a supporter of Harper and the Conservatives prior to that. If anything, he started going off the Tories because they weren't conservative enough for him. Citation request for him NOT endorsing the federal Liberals somewhere. I'm not saying he's never done it, I just haven't seen it. Edit: I'm fairly certain that he endorsed the Ontario PCs in the last Ontario election. I'm specifically talking LPC, not other organizations with the word liberal in them. Quote
Evening Star Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Citation request for him NOT endorsing the federal Liberals somewhere. I'm not saying he's never done it, I just haven't seen it. In an election, specifically, or in general? Because he criticizes them all the time otherwise. And, before I search high and low for decade-old election endorsements, do you actually remember him endorsing the LPC in previous elections or are you just basing this on 2011? Quote
Evening Star Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) I'll freely admit that I don't have a clear memory of his 06 or 08 endorsements. The thing is, regardless of his endorsements, I just don't think Andrew Coyne is any sort of partisan. He has clear ideological principles and he has no problem praising or criticizing any party or any leader on the basis of his principles. Edited October 18, 2015 by Evening Star Quote
Bryan Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) In an election, specifically, or in general? Because he criticizes them all the time otherwise. And, before I search high and low for decade-old election endorsements, do you actually remember him endorsing the LPC in previous elections or are you just basing this on 2011? Yeah, I mean specifically who he endorses in an election. My recollection is that he ends up backing the LPC. I'm going by admittedly faulty memory too. I was well aware of 2011 (easy to find links for), but I couldn't find a link of his specific endorsements in previous years. Edited October 18, 2015 by Bryan Quote
Smallc Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 According to this, he once endorsed the Alliance. http://torontoist.com/2015/10/a-history-of-newspaper-endorsements/ Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 According to this, he once endorsed the Alliance. http://torontoist.com/2015/10/a-history-of-newspaper-endorsements/ I think disappointed partisans are looking for scapegoats, but there's no way you can call Coyne a partisan Liberals. Again, he's a Classical Liberal, and from everything I've read of his, he's as Whiggish as anyone in the 21st century could be. He's a throwback. Quote
Bryan Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 According to this, he once endorsed the Alliance. http://torontoist.com/2015/10/a-history-of-newspaper-endorsements/ Nice find! Thanks for that! Quote
cybercoma Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 While I think the hardliner old Reform guard would be emboldened by Kenney, I also think Kenney has shown enough nerve over the years that he could hold them in check. That being said, I'm not at all sure Kenney is that popular with the Red Tories, and with the leadership election rules in place at the moment, the smaller PC contingent still has the muscle to foil Kenney's bid. But this enters pretty dangerous territory. Harper and Mackay made darned sure those weighting rules stuck despite efforts by some to get rid of them at at least a couple of conventions over the last few years. There might be considerable distrust over a socially conservative leader who was also one of Harper's only truly trusted cabinet ministers/fixers. It will be tough. With MacKay gone, and now Harper likely to resign very soon, the two founders of the CPC will be out of the picture. I can't see Mackay making a comeback, Soudas' helicopter honey pot pretty much destroyed his credibility. I've heard Brad Wall's name mentioned, though that would be pretty unique in Canadian history if he were to actuall become PM; no Premier before him ever has, and so far as I'm aware the only ex-Premier to become a leader of a Federal Party was Tommy Douglas, himself Premier of Saskatchewan who went on to lead the CCF and then NDP. I've seen other people float Raitt and Ambrose, and by all accounts their pretty solid cabinet ministers. Some people have floated Moore, and even Baird, but Baird's alleged sexual orientation could be a problem. Bob Rae. Interim leader but still leader. Quote
Canada_First Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Dr. Kellie Leitch would make a good leader and perhaps PM some day. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 By comparison, the Conservative platform is an inch deep but far less than a mile wide. I just don't see what it is you're seeing here. I started out not even considering the Liberals in this election, but I've come to appreciate Trudeau and the Liberal party. Their platform makes the most sense to me on pretty much every issue, and Trudeau has proven to not be the idiot I thought he was in the first debate. Sounds like that's who you should vote for then......all anyone can ask in an election is for people to actually consider the alternatives. Quote Back to Basics
Evening Star Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Bob Rae. Interim leader but still leader. Ha, I honestly forgot that he was ever LPC leader! Quote
GostHacked Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Hmm... does anyone actually care which newspaper endorses which party? I mean, is anyone's own vote going to be affected by who a newspaper "endorses"? IN short, to answer your question, yes. Many depend on the news to tell them what is what. If a news organization decides to back a certain party then that could influence their readers to vote a certain way. That will also drive people away from a news organization that ends up supporting a certain party. If you like it, you will continue to vote for that party and read that paper. If not, you will stop reading the paper and vote someone else. So yes it does affect people who read, but now there is the real question of understanding what you are reading to make an informed decision. Quote
Smallc Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Sounds like that's who you should vote for then......all anyone can ask in an election is for people to actually consider the alternatives. You know, I started into this election campaign thinking that Trudeau was an idiot. In the first debate, I mocked him as such. Apparently, I was wrong. Quote
Scotty Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 I believe it will be. Jason Kenney wouldn't have the short-leash, silence the base to be electable, grip on the party that Harper has. All the nutters that Harper has done an exceptional job of keeping in the closet would be front and centre with Kenney at the helm. It would be a substantially different party and for the worse. What do you think constitutes a 'nutter'? Do you mean people who disagree with you on social policy issues? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 I think Kelly MacParland's endorsement of the Conservatives on behalf of the National Post is sane, sensible, and lacks the histrionics we so frequently elsewhere. We seem to be doing pretty well by these measures, but you wouldn’t know it from the Vesuvian eruption of opprobrium that has rained down on the government of Stephen Harper through the course of the election, and the months before. So appalling has Harper been portrayed – so lacking in any redeeming feature – that a visitor would have to wonder how the guy ever got elected in the first place, never mind three times in succession. Are Canadians nuts? http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-the-case-for-re-electing-stephen-harper Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 You know, I started into this election campaign thinking that Trudeau was an idiot. In the first debate, I mocked him as such. Apparently, I was wrong. I don't believe Trudeau had much to do with the organizing and planning of this election campaign. This was done for him, and done very well. He has come off as fresh, well-spoken, and charismatic, but then almost anyone would compared to Harper. Still, that helps a lot, as does the sentiment for change. I have seen no indication he appreciates the complexities of most issues facing the federal government, and seems to view most things through an ideological prism. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Party brass will keep the "nutters" in line. They know the path to success. A party leader isnt god no matter how much people want him to be Why would a party have 'nutter' MPs? What constitutes a nutter? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 I don't believe Trudeau had much to do with the organizing and planning of this election campaign. I think we both have no idea who planned what. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 What do you think constitutes a 'nutter'? Do you mean people who disagree with you on social policy issues? Yes. Every single person who disagrees with me is a nutter. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 You know, I started into this election campaign thinking that Trudeau was an idiot. In the first debate, I mocked him as such. Apparently, I was wrong. I don't know if you could ever call him an idiot - but he certainly was challenged on substance and his ability to put coherent sentences together. The turning point in the campaign was to acknowledge that fact - and to counter it, they broke with tradition and had Gerald Butts tutor him every single day. For better or worse, Trudeau is simply the figurehead - and we will be living with the huge political influence of Butts.....the man who guided Dalton McGuinty and Kathleen Wynne.......and only if you live in Ontario, can you truly appreciate the long-term damage that disastrous team has done to its citizens. Link: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/10/18/justin-trudeaus-smartest-campaign-move-hepburn.html Quote Back to Basics
Scotty Posted October 18, 2015 Report Posted October 18, 2015 Yes. Every single person who disagrees with me is a nutter. It was an honest question. I want to know what people regard as crazy as far as MPs go. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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