I'll be voting Conservative...

[Guest]

Look at the powers given to CSIS in C 51. They can arrest you without warrant, detain you for 7 days without charge, and all they can't do to you is sexually assault, or kill you.

Like I said to PN, when I see those powers being abused I'll re-evaluate my position. The ability to do that when seen as necessary doesn't bother me at all.

Edited September 13, 2015 by bcsapper

[Springer]

Any serious analysis of C-51 will conclude that CSIS has been given updated means to counter terrorism threats...means that have been standard practice in many other western nations for years.

We live in the world of the Internet now; that's the reality. And the likes of ISIS and Al Qaida exploit it for everything they are worth...successfully, as we have come to learn all too painfully.

Expecting CSIS or the RCMP to counter the very real threats posed by ever modernizing 21st century technology with 20th century tools is, frankly, just plain naïve and silliness.

And if they can use those new tools to also track down the vile vermin who peddle child pornography and exploitation, more power to them!

Edited September 13, 2015 by Springer

[On Guard for Thee]

Like I said to PN, when I see those powers being abused I'll re-evaluate my position. The ability to do that when seen as necessary doesn't bother me at all.

Well even if you don't mind the government snooping to the extent they can under C 51, you should also want some independent oversight to go alog with it. Harper has effectively stopped that by gutting SIRC.

[drummindiver]

Wow! You out did yourself with that one. Wars reduce refugees, hilarious.

Your attempt at levity is appreciated, your ignorance however is redundant for you.

Your continued support for all things ISIL is noted.

There is one thing that jump-started the crisis-the Arab Spring. It began in 2011.Pro democracy, then the usual suspects clamped down.

Bashar al-Assad's regime has targeted civilians ruthlessly, using chemical weapons and barrel bombs; ISIS has subjected Syrians to murder, torture, crucifixion, sexual slavery, and other appalling atrocities. -Nusra have tortured and killed civilians.

Fighting them according to you is abhorrent on our part, right OGFT?

The west caused all this,right?

We make them do horrific acts.

If you can't see that reducing the people killing the people actually saves the people, I don't know what to say.

Clearly, if we bombed the "muricans" all the wars would be over and the world would be a happy cozy place.

[drummindiver]

I don't mean to be facetious, but how? What indication of your lost privacy have you noticed in the last decade say? I would imagine quite a lot, if you have any kind of internet and or social media use. But where did CSIS show up in the mix?

I'll be facetious.

Anti C51ers main concern is that someone may read their emails?

Uh, who cares? Seriously? You're afraid some nameless minion saw that you sent away for that penis enlarger?

The entire world is being videotaped, everything you do online is tracked by corporations.

[drummindiver]

Any serious analysis of C-51 will conclude that CSIS has been given updated means to counter terrorism threats...means that have been standard practice in many other western nations for years.

We live in the world of the Internet now; that's the reality. And the likes of ISIS and Al Qaida exploit it for everything they are worth...successfully, as we have come to learn all too painfully.

Expecting CSIS or the RCMP to counter the very real threats posed by ever modernizing 21st century technology with 20th century tools is, frankly, just plain naïve and silliness.

And if they can use those new tools to also track down the vile vermin who peddle child pornography and exploitation, more power to them!

Exactly!

The Dark Web is used by many terrorist organizations to organize. There needs to be means to combat this with new tools specific to the threat.

[On Guard for Thee]

Your attempt at levity is appreciated, your ignorance however is redundant for you.

Your continued support for all things ISIL is noted.

There is one thing that jump-started the crisis-the Arab Spring. It began in 2011.Pro democracy, then the usual suspects clamped down.

Bashar al-Assad's regime has targeted civilians ruthlessly, using chemical weapons and barrel bombs; ISIS has subjected Syrians to murder, torture, crucifixion, sexual slavery, and other appalling atrocities. -Nusra have tortured and killed civilians.

Fighting them according to you is abhorrent on our part, right OGFT?

The west caused all this,right?

We make them do horrific acts.

If you can't see that reducing the people killing the people actually saves the people, I don't know what to say.

Clearly, if we bombed the "muricans" all the wars would be over and the world would be a happy cozy place.

I wasn't attempting levity, just laughing at the content of your post. You can't really do other than laugh.

[PrimeNumber]

Not all in. The point where I say the restriction on my freedoms is not worth the outcomes is different from yours, that's all. The argument is that there are very few terrorists (Awful word) being caught. Maybe. I wouldn't know. I do know that I haven't noticed any curtailment of my rights. When I do, i'll re-evaluate my position.

I can respect that decision. I don't expect the power to be abused but I don't expect it to not be abused either.

[PrimeNumber]

I'll be facetious.

Anti C51ers main concern is that someone may read their emails?

Uh, who cares? Seriously? You're afraid some nameless minion saw that you sent away for that penis enlarger?

The entire world is being videotaped, everything you do online is tracked by corporations.

You won't catch those that want to stay hidden though. That's the point. When the hacking group Anonymous, mostly made up of people with a lose affiliation with each other and very little money to back their endeavors can make our government and spy agencies look pretty amateur and they still can't figure out who they are. What makes you think they can use the internet and prying eyes to find members of terrorist organizations with millions and even billions of dollars at their disposal to mask their trails. It's an exercise in futility. We should leave the spying up to the Americans. They already filter every Canadian email as it is anyways.

Edited September 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber

[drummindiver]

I wasn't attempting levity, just laughing at the content of your post. You can't really do other than laugh.

lol

Yes, laughing at the continued atrocities of ISIL and the Syrian regime are pretty funny.

As I said, carry on with your support of all things ISIL.

You won't catch those that want to stay hidden though. That's the point. When the hacking group Anonymous, mostly made up of people with a lose affiliation with each other and very little money to back their endeavors can make our government and spy agencies look pretty amateur and they still can't figure out who they are. What makes you think they can use the internet and prying eyes to find members of terrorist organizations with millions and even billions of dollars at their disposal to mask their trails. It's an exercise in futility. We should leave the spying up to the Americans. They already filter every Canadian email as it is anyways.

So, because they are difficult to catch, does that mean we don't try to catch them?

They are using specific tools. If we don't have the weapons, and by this I mean laws and internet protocols, to combat them, clearly we will never catch them.

This gives them free reign, knowing that we don't have the will or weapons to combat them.

Edited September 13, 2015 by drummindiver

[On Guard for Thee]

lol

Yes, laughing at the continued atrocities of ISIL and the Syrian regime are pretty funny.

As I said, carry on with your support of all things ISIL.

Oh I wasn't laughing at ISIL.

[PrimeNumber]

So, because they are difficult to catch, does that mean we don't try to catch them?

They are using specific tools. If we don't have the weapons, and by this I mean laws and internet protocols, to combat them, clearly we will never catch them.

This gives them free reign, knowing that we don't have the will or weapons to combat them.

Good luck with that. America has been trying to police the internet for the last 15 years to no avail. You think Canada will do any better?

It's a waste of time and money to police the internet. Vigilante groups like Anonymous do a better job outing these guys than Canadian agencies do.

http://mic.com/articles/112944/anonymous-went-after-the-islamic-state-with-a-massive-hack-but-was-it-a-good-idea

Edited September 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber

[drummindiver]

Oh I wasn't laughing at ISIL.

Oh, I know. You admire them too much to laugh at them.

[drummindiver]

Good luck with that. America has been trying to police the internet for the last 15 years to no avail. You think Canada will do any better?

It's a waste of time and money to police the internet. Vigilante groups like Anonymous do a better outing these guys than Canadian agencies do.

http://mic.com/articles/112944/anonymous-went-after-the-islamic-state-with-a-massive-hack-but-was-it-a-good-idea

Again, PN, what do you do then?

If you can't patrol it, what are people worried about C51 for?

[PrimeNumber]

Again, PN, what do you do then?

If you can't patrol it, what are people worried about C51 for?

Because it's useless. It's a waste of time and money. Our time and money.

[On Guard for Thee]

Again, PN, what do you do then?

If you can't patrol it, what are people worried about C51 for?

You could always actually read it and find out. As most Canadians became at least somewhat familiar with what is i those 62 pages, they turned against it big time.

[drummindiver]

You could always actually read it and find out. As most Canadians became at least somewhat familiar with what is i those 62 pages, they turned against it big time.

Um, I have read it, thanks.

Are you worried seven days of detention will equate to seven days of protracted and aggressive interrogation? Hardly the Canadian way in 2015, but I guess you never know...though I hardly doubt it.

Are you worried that there will be false positives, innocent people wrongly placed into custody? Happens now all the time. Let's just abolish the police and the court system so we don't have any of that. Happy?

Must be your concern that prohibitions on speech that promotes or glorifies terrorism would provide sweeping powers to police and prosecutors. Um, I've heard the arguments. Don't believe them. Difference between protesting and promoting terrorism.

And I like that CSIS has expanded powers. Hell, if dog catchers can come into my home in Ontario without a warrant, I think federally trained agents should be able to do the same with a warrant.

[On Guard for Thee]

Um, I have read it, thanks.

Are you worried seven days of detention will equate to seven days of protracted and aggressive interrogation? Hardly the Canadian way in 2015, but I guess you never know...though I hardly doubt it.

Are you worried that there will be false positives, innocent people wrongly placed into custody? Happens now all the time. Let's just abolish the police and the court system so we don't have any of that. Happy?

Must be your concern that prohibitions on speech that promotes or glorifies terrorism would provide sweeping powers to police and prosecutors. Um, I've heard the arguments. Don't believe them. Difference between protesting and promoting terrorism.

And I like that CSIS has expanded powers. Hell, if dog catchers can come into my home in Ontario without a warrant, I think federally trained agents should be able to do the same with a warrant.

The point being is that opening the door for abuse will sooner or later result in abuse, especially when there is no proper oversight. The laws prior to C 51 have been shown to be effective, C 51 has not.

[Springer]

Actually, there is an oversight panel...three judges I believe.

As opposed to politicians with axes to grind, and whom have a rather poor history of keeping their mouths shut, leaks wise.

[Argus]

Okay, so let's make terrorism, particularly the home grown kind, the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about, because it's too scary.

Terrorism is not an elephant. It's important to guard against it, which we are doing. The only point of divergence is that a large segment of the population has so much distrust and distaste for Harper they're paranoid, delusional and tinfoil hat crazy with regard to the steps he's taken, thinking he's going to start arresting people for protesting against pipelines.

[Argus]

It's not too scary at all. In fact Canadians are far far more likely to die in lightning strikes.

Have you ever had a fire in your house? Do you have fire insurance? However unlikely large scale terrorism is we still need to guard against it.

[Argus]

The US who the Harper government has so desperately tried to emulate has already gone Stasi as has the UK.

Demonstrably nonsensical. Can you not discuss issues without going into idiotic hyperbole?

[Argus]

Not to nit pick, but it was actually two days.

And clearly, the black bloc tactics and thuggery that prevailed, a billion wasn`t enough, was it.

It was more than enough except for the incompetence of the organizers, including the Liberal party's newest candidate, the former Toronto police chief.

[Argus]

The current government in Ottawa is utterly INSANE and FISCALLY RECKLESS.

And yet, despite cutting taxes we have a balanced budget.

[Argus]

So almost half of Canadians think the best way to end the migrant crisis is to create more migrants?

No, they think the best way to end it is stop the war. The war isn't going to stop until someone with enough weight of metal steps in and stops it.