I'll be voting Conservative...

[69cat]

So, the government, or system, or whatever can impede my right to privacy without bill c51. Ok, so educate me on three main points in bill c51 that i personally need to be concerned about. As i say, my concern is internet hacks getting to my personal info, anything in c51 to track cybercriminals or is it only going to be terrorist activities being tracked?

Also, would be nice for someone to disput the key points in Springers original post. 12 pages and nada.

[G Huxley]

If you're driving a car you're in a public space. If you're at home you're in a private space. Yes the police can enter your home but only with a warrant through due process.

Again I repeat why are conservatives so fearful by nature?

Is fear really something to be proud of? To me it's a trait of cowardice, weakness and animal nature.

It is utilized and exploited by the usual scoundrels and criminal deviants.

Edited September 15, 2015 by G Huxley

[PrimeNumber]

Again I repeat why are conservatives so fearful by nature?

They're scared of Islam extremism because it's the new enemy. But mostly because they have no goddamn clue how to stop it. They're terrified because this time it's not a political ideology they're fighting, it's a religious one. One they can't destroy by just killing everyone that believes in it or toppling it's government and that is the only way they know how to deal with something, violence.

They're so scared of it they will give up their civil liberties one by one until there is nothing left. Little do they know that won't stop it either. But they feel safe in their secure stupidity.

Edited September 15, 2015 by PrimeNumber

[waldo]

Waldo...

There were five studies, confirmation of which you should be able to Google up in about 10 or so seconds. And, yes it is pertinent. That useless SOB has singlehandedly cost Canadians tens of billions in lost revenues, and many billions more lost by both levels of governments in royalties and taxes. Lost due to our oil being sold at hefty discounts of $20/bbl and more because of the bottleneck caused due to lack of pipeline facilities. He's most sorry excuse for a president I've ever seen.

But then again, what the hell to do Canada's left care anyway, eh? Gots to fight AGW before we all burn to a crisp!!!

Keeeeripes!

again, thread drift! You don't know what you're talking about... I suggested you resurrect one of the many KXL threads, name those studies and we'll go from there. And yes... I know this subject... and I know it well and I know which studies you presume to speak of... waiting... waiting... waiting... (notwithstanding the U.S. has no requirement for tarsands sludge... notwithstanding the marketing for tarsands sludge was never the U.S.).

waldoPostingEtiquetteNote: quote the member post if you really want a reply... unless I get a notification that a post of mine has been quoted, I don't typically review an ongoing thread.

Edited September 15, 2015 by waldo

[G Huxley]

They are far more likely to be struck by lightning. If they are really afraid of Islamic extremism then they should have just left the secular dictators in place in the Middle East as those were keeping them under wraps.

Actually I think conservatives like Islamic extremism, because they share with the terrorists a love of fear and fear bolsters the support of both groups.

That's why time and again the weapons that gets into their hands comes from the west.

Also religious fundamentalists are more likely to fill the ranks of conservative parties and terror groups alike.

And both conservatives and Islamic fundamentalists praise violence as noble. In fact it seems they rally around and worship violence in various forms.

Edited September 15, 2015 by G Huxley

[bush_cheney2004]

And BTW...

Today marks the 7th anniversary of TransCanada Pipeline's application to build the Keystone.

Seven GD years, including five studies, all of which gave it approval.

The Americans already built their Keystone pipeline.....so what's Canada's problem ? Build more east-west...and whine less.

Maybe use lots of immigrants....

Edited September 15, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[Canada_First]

I'm not fearful. I just don't like most immigrants who are poor. They refuse to work. Deal drugs. Whore themselves out.

Live 20 to a house. Collect welfare and use up resources that would be better spent on real Canadians.

If immigrant has no wealth they have no value to Canada. They're basically just riff raff. We need to only take in the best we can find. Not the riffraff.

We need immigrants that have real value to Canada.

Most of the non white immigrants dress funny. Speak broken English and have strange and severe religious beliefs that make them dangerous to real Canadians.

This is my view. Maybe others are scared I don't know. I can only speak for myself.

[G Huxley]

If you don't want immigrants pouring in (I agree on population grounds although disagree on many of your reasons) then you better ditch the conservative party as their foreign policies have been creating boat loads of them (e.g. Libya).

Edited September 15, 2015 by G Huxley

[Springer]

Huxley...

I'm not afraid of C-51. You are. Why are the left so afraid of everything.

Waldo...

Tarsands sludge? Really??? Pffft!

Prime Number...

Ideology or religion; pretty fine line separates the two. In this instance, it's ideology steeped in religion. And, yes, very difficult to defeat.

In fact, I have little time for either. Never read a single book on "conservatism" in my life. Lots about religions, and other ideologies and their effects on the course of human history. People "blinded by the light", I'm wont to describe it. How many hundreds of millions have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity? Islam? Judaism? Nazism? Communism? Fascism? Maoism? Marxism? Most often by their own governments!

The best defense against all of it is democracy...which is precisely why those absorbed with Islamism are waging war against us. Tyranny cannot stand the light of day and truth shone upon itself.

The assumption here is that, because I'm opposed to left wing ideology, thus I must be right wing. No. I'm neither. However, I find modern Conservatism incredibly more tolerant than left wing doctrine, and Conservatives much more tolerant than the Liberal Left. (...as evidenced by the intolerant venom spewed on forums like this one that has become so typical of any conversation involving ideologically obsessed leftists. Just sayin', eh?)

An aside: For some reason the "Quote" feature doesn't work on my computer. Windows 7 and latest version of IE. Indeed, this is the most difficult forum set up I've ever posted on. No idea why...??? Suggestions would be appreciated.

[G Huxley]

Am I afraid of it? I think it's a whopping waste of money and a violation of privacy all so some cowardly conservatives can sleep better at night.

Again if you and your ilk want to pay for your paranoia scared surveillance state that's fine with me so long as you are footing the bill for it and not the actual brave and realistic people in the country.

Would you like me to buy you some night lights too with that?

It's the least I can do and would be a lot less expensive.

Edited September 15, 2015 by G Huxley

[waldo]

Waldo...

Tarsands sludge? Really??? Pffft!

do you have some aversion to actually quoting members? And yes, really! Tarsands is the industry originated name... a marketing wizard thought it more apropos to rebrand as "oil sands"... what would call bitumen if not sludge?

is there a reason you continue to avoid resurrecting a KXL thread... you seemed so sure in you blusterbus!

[Springer]

Did I mention AGW/Climate Change? That's the new religion, also steeped in ideology. And, by God, there's the millions of adherents blinded by the light to march along in step with it, too. Even has its own cadre of Inquisitors, ready to burn all heretics to the faith on the stake of public opinion.

Which is yet another reason I would never vote NDP or Liberal. Even a hint of rationality on this subject is beyond them! Far more interested in milking it for every last vote and dime in their collection plates they can squeeze out it.

No, Waldo, not interested in going there. It's pointless. Been there, done that. Nothing makes a lefty's day like another imagined crisis they can wrap themselves around, and make themselves feel good by trying to save the world from the human species of which far too many of them have nothing but contempt in the first place.

The essence of most religions, certainly Christianity and Islam, is that all human beings are, at their core, sinners and unworthy. Only through the collectivism of organized religion - strategically inserted between man and his/her God - can the human race be saved from itself...kindly drop a shekel in the collection plate on your way out the door, thank you very much.

Should sound pretty familiar to those of left wing persuasion.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Springer

[PrimeNumber]

Huxley...

I'm not afraid of C-51. You are. Why are the left so afraid of everything.

Waldo...

Tarsands sludge? Really??? Pffft!

Prime Number...

Ideology or religion; pretty fine line separates the two. In this instance, it's ideology steeped in religion. And, yes, very difficult to defeat.

In fact, I have little time for either. Never read a single book on "conservatism" in my life. Lots about religions, and other ideologies and their effects on the course of human history. People "blinded by the light", I'm wont to describe it. How many hundreds of millions have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity? Islam? Judaism? Nazism? Communism? Fascism? Maoism? Marxism? Most often by their own governments!

The best defense against all of it is democracy...which is precisely why those absorbed with Islamism are waging war against us. Tyranny cannot stand the light of day and truth shone upon itself.

The assumption here is that, because I'm opposed to left wing ideology, thus I must be right wing. No. I'm neither. However, I find modern Conservatism incredibly more tolerant than left wing doctrine, and Conservatives much more tolerant than the Liberal Left. (...as evidenced by the intolerant venom spewed on forums like this one that has become so typical of any conversation involving ideologically obsessed leftists. Just sayin', eh?)

An aside: For some reason the "Quote" feature doesn't work on my computer. Windows 7 and latest version of IE. Indeed, this is the most difficult forum set up I've ever posted on. No idea why...??? Suggestions would be appreciated.

Don't get me wrong I despise all religions. But you won't destroy a religion by killing all it's members. Religions spread. You have to defeat the ideas it's hard to do that when you would rather shoot them than sit down and talk to them and of course vice versa. Conservatives and religious extremists are so one in the same in that sense. They shoot first and don't care to ask any questions. You could send every last western troop on earth to the ME and kill every single last Muslim you find. But I guarantee you it pops up again all over the World in short time. That is what you people don't understand. This war will last forever and some clever people with a lot of money have figured that out and have thus engineered ways to profit from it endlessly and you just fill their pockets with your support.

[G Huxley]

That's it it's all about money. Fear is just a way to make money and gain power.

As the conservative political theorist Machiavelli wrote: If one can't be loved it is better to be feared.

Edited September 15, 2015 by G Huxley

[waldo]

No, Waldo, not interested in going there. It's pointless.

but you're sure interested in laying down your sanctimonious unsubstantiated opinions, aren't you? You have no hesitation in beaking off about about AGW, Climate Change... while attaching religion, ideology, inquisitors, burning heretics, etc., to your baseless spew. You're clearly a know nothing denier... if you ever feel emboldened enough, join one of the GW/AGW/CC related threads to really showcase your "knowledge".

[Springer]

And WTF are you going to chat about when you sit down with the likes of people motivated by whatever evil crap you want to call it that drives them to the unspeakable horrors we have been witness to at the hands of Al Qaida and ISIS???

Isn't that what exactly what Chamberlin tried with Hitler? And how did that work out??? How did it work out with Stalin??? How is it working out with that psycho in N. Korea? How about the cadre of Imams hell bent on wiping Israel off the face of the earth controlling Iran?

Do you honestly think they give a good GD what any of us ever thought about anything???

These are people on a mission, buddy! They see lack of determination as weakness to be exploited at every opportunity. (...keep your eyes on Putin, too.) That is the nature of evil, and history is a litany of testament to the fact of it.

Indeed, the CCF were opposed to involvement in WW2, as were the left in America that ultimately delayed Roosevelt from stepping up to the plate and help Britain defeat Hitler. And how many more millions died because of this delay??? How many tens of millions died because nobody wanted to stand up to Hitler right from the get-go??? And how many tens of millions died in Soviet purges and gulags? Or Chairman Mao's cleansings of the proletariat hordes? How many millions starved or executed in N. Korea???

Read up on 20th century history, my friend.

[Springer]

"know nothing denier".

Thanks for making my point that much more clear, pal.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Springer

[waldo]

"know nothing denier".

Thanks for making my point that much more clear, pal.

no worries pal... expect more of the same next time you post like statements!

as for your quoting concern: that problem is long standing for MLW/IE... vbulletin IPBoard might have a fix (by now) but until MLW upgrades to it (assuming one exists), you're hooped. In any case, most people use a real browser!

Edited September 15, 2015 by waldo

[G Huxley]

The existence of ISIS and Al Qaeda are both owed to conservative neoconservative policies.

And this might surprise you but Neville Chamberlain was a conservative.

It's amusing to watch you descend into full blown hysterics though.

Edited September 15, 2015 by G Huxley

[Springer]

Does it work better with Fire Fox? Can't post links, here, either, without a lot of mucking about.

Used it in the past, but it had issues, too.

[waldo]

Does it work better with Fire Fox? Can't post links, here, either, without a lot of mucking about.

Used it in the past, but it had issues, too.

works fine on Chrome... and Firefox. Since I was curious... this is me quoting you using Microsoft Edge 20.10240.16394.0 on Windows 10 - also seemed to work fine.

[69cat]

For sure climate change is a religion, just mention anything that questions that "the science is settled" and step back. So no point going there. Although it is odd that in my lifetime i have been told to expect an iceage and now an oven. But lets leave that alone for a few more years and see what we are told next.

By the way, i dont see how i am living in fear, and i also have not been told why i need to fear c51.

Also, regarding Canadians right to privacy, how does one reconcile the fact that organized crime, drug trafficking, black mail (all those things not related to terrorism) find peoples rights to privacy violated in the name of justice but terrorism gets a pass. Frankly, i am all for violating a persons right to privacy under a number of circumstances. Oh, and from my understanding c51 also requires judges to sign off on many aspects the same approach as if a biker gang is being targeted.

Another thing about c51 is the freedom to share info between agencies. I fail to see that as not being the most logical thing. Governments are great for creating more departments and procedures that hinder and obstruct other departments from doing their job so a plan to take down barriers just seems so old school that it should have been in place 50 years ago.

Still no response to the original post by Springer. Well no surprise there as that follows the exact pattern of the media where real points are made but the issues are side stepped with talk like bill c51, climate change and name calling such as denier or paranoid.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[G Huxley]

First 69 science isn't a religion.

Religion is religion and religious are more inclined to vote conservative or join ISIS.

2nd again there is a process called warrants.

They are there to ensure justice and to protect the public from abuse of power.

Edited September 15, 2015 by G Huxley

[G Huxley]

A good article on the religious right in Canada and in the Harper government: http://www.thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/09/14/Covert-Evangelism-Stephen-Harper/

[Keepitsimple]

A good article on the religious right in Canada and in the Harper government: http://www.thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/09/14/Covert-Evangelism-Stephen-Harper/

What's your point?.....that someone who goes to church shouldn't be Prime Minister? Do you have one shred of substance that indicates Harper has mixed religion and politics? The irony of the Left's prejudice........