PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Recent poll on CTV's main site... How can Canada best address the migrant crisis? Accepting more refugees 1528 (23 %) Fighting Islamic State 3580 (55 %) Sending aid 1415 (22 %) And the immediately following poll... After seeing the haunting image of the drowned boy, do you feel more compelled to help? Yes 2392 (32 %) No 5099 (68 %) So almost half of Canadians think the best way to end the migrant crisis is to create more migrants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well we all saw what Alberta did to the cons. provincially. And this time it looks like the federal election won't be over until it's over in BC., and it certainly isn't Harper friendly. You get the odd supporters in the interior. You're typical backwoods, don't take my guns types with the Confederate flags in their windows. And up north it's hard to tell. But in the cities it's pretty anti-Harper everywhere you look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 And five weeks is an eternity in politics. It might be an eternity but I think Harper needs more time than that to salvage this election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Security is a major issue for SOME Canadians. Not all. I for one feel perfectly safe and always have with or without Harper and all his bills. No one is coming after me. I'm not that important and neither are you or anyone else on this forum. You should feel safe in your insignificance more than anything Harper will do for you. I completely concur. I'm not falling for Harper's empty rhetoric about needing him to protect me from, well, whatever it is he thinks we need protecting from. Let's get rid of him, rid of his C 51, and get his nose to hell out of our emails. I agree too. I feel perfectly safe. Little hamlet in central Alberta. No problem. The thing is, I'm not afraid of security measures either. I feel perfectly safe from them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Michael... I wouldn't be too hasty with that assumption. This isn't my idea, it comes from interviews with strategists. Security hasn't been a campaign issue thus far because anybody who really cares isn't voting NDP/Liberal anyway. Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I agree too. I feel perfectly safe. Little hamlet in central Alberta. No problem. The thing is, I'm not afraid of security measures either. I feel perfectly safe from them too. So then what you're saying is it's a pointless waste of money and time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 So almost half of Canadians think the best way to end the migrant crisis is to create more migrants? That is a huge jump. I don't know how to ask without sounding trite, but where do you see that? People are also cynical due to the egregious lies perpetrated on the public by the left. The father blaming us also doesn't sit well considering the possibility he himself may be to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 So then what you're saying is it's a pointless waste of money and time? No, I'm saying that whatever the democratically elected government decides to do that doesn't take as its only source of information behind its reasoning some hamlet with a population of <500 is okay with me. You think Canada's security concerns should be based on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 That is a huge jump. I don't know how to ask without sounding trite, but where do you see that? People are also cynical due to the egregious lies perpetrated on the public by the left. The father blaming us also doesn't sit well considering the possibility he himself may be to blame. Well these migrants are because of war. So logically if you keep fighting a war there will be more refugee's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 No, I'm saying that whatever the democratically elected government decides to do that doesn't take as its only source of information behind its reasoning some hamlet with a population of <500 is okay with me. You think Canada's security concerns should be based on that? Tangible threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I agree too. I feel perfectly safe. Little hamlet in central Alberta. No problem. The thing is, I'm not afraid of security measures either. I feel perfectly safe from them too. That sounds a little too close to that old saw about "if you have nothing to hide..." idea for me. Trying to convince people they should be afraid and then creating bills such as C 51 to try and gather votes from those you are able to convince about the boogeyman, is not a good plan. Powers handed to institutions such as CSIS in that process could actually be the things we really should be afraid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Tangible threats. Exactly. And just because I don't see them where I live is no reason to suppose they don't exist. What scares you about the security measures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 That sounds a little too close to that old saw about "if you have nothing to hide..." idea for me. Trying to convince people they should be afraid and then creating bills such as C 51 to try and gather votes from those you are able to convince about the boogeyman, is not a good plan. Powers handed to institutions such as CSIS in that process could actually be the things we really should be afraid of. Well, like I asked PN in my previous post, what exactly are you scared of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Exactly. And just because I don't see them where I live is no reason to suppose they don't exist. What scares you about the security measures? You're more likely to be killed by a Moose in a head crash every year on the number #1 highway. Let's spend all of our money putting up wildlife fences. We'd save more lives. Edited September 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well these migrants are because of war. So logically if you keep fighting a war there will be more refugee's. Those migrants are not migrants because we are fighting ISIL They are migrants because the Syrian regime and ISIL have killed over 330,000 since the start of their civil war. Attempting to curtail the atrocities of ISIL should, if you extrapolate properly, actually reduce the number of migrants. And by migrants, you are talking refugees? Two totally different people, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well, like I asked PN in my previous post, what exactly are you scared of? Losing my right to privacy for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springer Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Metaphorically... People are testing the water right now. Like a day at the beach, nice and sunny, hot out, blankets laid out, and the lake looks very inviting. And then they dip a toe in the 10 degree water, and that's the end of that. Ask anyone (outside of the imaginary world of forums like this one) what concerns them most: An ethically challenged Mike Duffy's issues with expenses? Or the safety and the security of their neighborhoods? Duffy was a distraction from the real world (outside the Ottawa Press Gallery's little club.) Security and safe streets are all about the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 You're more likely to be killed by a Moose in a crash every year on the number #1 highway. Let's spend all of our money putting up wildlife fences. We'd save more lives. Is it just the money? Although I might disagree, I can see that as a concern. The thing about numbers is what I can't see. If someone dies, it doesn't matter what mathematical relationship their demise bears to being hit by a moose, or by lightning, or another car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Those migrants are not migrants because we are fighting ISIL They are migrants because the Syrian regime and ISIL have killed over 330,000 since the start of their civil war. Attempting to curtail the atrocities of ISIL should, if you extrapolate properly, actually reduce the number of migrants. And by migrants, you are talking refugees? Two totally different people, yes? They aren't just from Syria there are many from Iraq too. When someone is fleeing a war, they are considered a refugee. But with that attempt you will undoubtedly create more refugees and people fleeing these war torn areas. This is and always was inevitable. Edited September 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Those migrants are not migrants because we are fighting ISIL They are migrants because the Syrian regime and ISIL have killed over 330,000 since the start of their civil war. Attempting to curtail the atrocities of ISIL should, if you extrapolate properly, actually reduce the number of migrants. And by migrants, you are talking refugees? Two totally different people, yes? Wow! You out did yourself with that one. Wars reduce refugees, hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Losing my right to privacy for starters. I don't mean to be facetious, but how? What indication of your lost privacy have you noticed in the last decade say? I would imagine quite a lot, if you have any kind of internet and or social media use. But where did CSIS show up in the mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Is it just the money? Although I might disagree, I can see that as a concern. The thing about numbers is what I can't see. If someone dies, it doesn't matter what mathematical relationship their demise bears to being hit by a moose, or by lightning, or another car. But if that mathematical relationship is equated with terrorism you're willing to go all in? You can't see every possible Moose that could jump in front of your car but you still drive. You are unwilling to help save yours and others lives by putting up a fence from a tangible threat. One who kills far more than any terrorist has in this country, yet you cling to the idea of fighting terrorism more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Metaphorically... People are testing the water right now. Like a day at the beach, nice and sunny, hot out, blankets laid out, and the lake looks very inviting. And then they dip a toe in the 10 degree water, and that's the end of that. Ask anyone (outside of the imaginary world of forums like this one) what concerns them most: An ethically challenged Mike Duffy's issues with expenses? Or the safety and the security of their neighborhoods? Duffy was a distraction from the real world (outside the Ottawa Press Gallery's little club.) Security and safe streets are all about the real world. I suspect the country well outside the Ottawa Press corps. will tune back into the Duffy trial day 1 of it's resumption. And I also suspect a good part of the NDP support comes from Mulcair promising to dump C 51. That' what I see in the Canadian real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I don't mean to be facetious, but how? What indication of your lost privacy have you noticed in the last decade say? I would imagine quite a lot, if you have any kind of internet and or social media use. But where did CSIS show up in the mix? Look at the powers given to CSIS in C 51. They can arrest you without warrant, detain you for 7 days without charge, and all they can't do to you is sexually assault, or kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 But if that mathematical relationship is equated with terrorism you're willing to go all in? You can't see every possible Moose that could jump in front of your car but you still drive. You are unwilling to help save yours and others lives by putting up a fence from a tangible threat. One who kills far more than any terrorist has in this country, yet you cling to the idea of fighting terrorism more. Not all in. The point where I say the restriction on my freedoms is not worth the outcomes is different from yours, that's all. The argument is that there are very few terrorists (Awful word) being caught. Maybe. I wouldn't know. I do know that I haven't noticed any curtailment of my rights. When I do, i'll re-evaluate my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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