G Huxley Posted September 4, 2015 Report Posted September 4, 2015 No wonder Harper and Mulcair are quaking in their boots desperately doing everything to keep her out of the debates. http://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2015/09/three-way-tie-as-voters-try-and-sort-out-who-can-solve-the-economy/ Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 4, 2015 Report Posted September 4, 2015 I see Stephen Harper is pretty much down to his base. No wonder they screen people before they let them in. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
G Huxley Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Posted September 5, 2015 He's down to the people who would pull the c lever even if he told them to jump off a cliff. Quote
cybercoma Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 She really does deserve it though. There isn't a more active parliamentarian who interacts with the electorate more than Elizabeth May. For those of you on Twitter, just tweet at her sometime. Even if you're criticizing her stance, as long as you're respectful she appears to respond to everyone. Quote
Evening Star Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 She was great in the Maclean's debate but, you know, just because people think she's doing a good job as Green Party leader does not mean that they think she will do a good job as Prime Minister of Canada. Ed Broadbent often got the highest job approval/leadership rankings in polls in the 80s fwiw. Quote
waldo Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 She was great in the Maclean's debate but, you know, just because people think she's doing a good job as Green Party leader does not mean that they think she will do a good job as Prime Minister of Canada. Ed Broadbent often got the highest job approval/leadership rankings in polls in the 80s fwiw. which leads to this graphic from that same OP linked article: those '2nd choice' numbers for all parties are most telling - indeed! Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Yup. Greens normally get a lower percentage of the vote than the polls indicate and I've heard people say this is because their support is soft. However, I think the real level of support won't be known unless and until we get PR. Strategic voting changes everything. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Topaz Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Probably why she good is she knows her questions and answers and doesn't go to the personal attacks, which show she may not agree with someone in the House, but she shows she respects them. Down the road I could see her as PM. Quote
BC_chick Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Yup. Greens normally get a lower percentage of the vote than the polls indicate and I've heard people say this is because their support is soft. However, I think the real level of support won't be known unless and until we get PR. Strategic voting changes everything. Agreed. That's why I don't like seeing the Greens bash the NDP in order to drain their support. Whether or not he goes through with it, Mulcair is the only one who has even brought up the issue of a full electoral reform. I still have my doubts though if he will still think it's unfair to form a majority with 40% of the vote if he is the one forming a government with 40% of the vote. Eta: I don't mean not this election, I mean should that hypothetical day ever come. He's been preaching as the underdog thus far but we all know power corrupts. Edited September 5, 2015 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
G Huxley Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Posted September 5, 2015 "Agreed. That's why I don't like seeing the Greens bash the NDP in order to drain their support."What if the NDP just deserves it? e.g. by keeping the Greens out of the debates time and time again, which is much worse. Is removing Harper worth sacrificing Democracy to achieve it? Quote
BC_chick Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 "Agreed. That's why I don't like seeing the Greens bash the NDP in order to drain their support." What if the NDP just deserves it? e.g. by keeping the Greens out of the debates time and time again, which is much worse. Is removing Harper worth sacrificing Democracy to achieve it? You're right, NDP started it and I deplore them trying to keep May out of the debates. I guess I just really want to see the day where I can vote for the party I want without feeling like I wasted my vote and the NDP is the only party that has even remotely brought up that possibility. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
cybercoma Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 How are the NDP keeping Elizabeth May out of the debates exactly? Quote
G Huxley Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) By going along with Harper's anti-democratic shenanigans. e.g. not participating in the consortium debates which now included May, and participating in Harper's other debates which aren't letting May participate. Originally under Layton they tried to keep the Greens from participating in the consortium debates and succeeded, but to their shock May won a seat without being in the debate. "I guess I just really want to see the day where I can vote for the party I want without feeling like I wasted my vote and the NDP is the only party that has even remotely brought up that possibility." The only time my vote ever counted was last provincial election here when my riding elected the first provincial Green MLA.It was like stepping into a parallel universe. I couldn't believe it. Edited September 5, 2015 by G Huxley Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Agreed. That's why I don't like seeing the Greens bash the NDP in order to drain their support. Whether or not he goes through with it, Mulcair is the only one who has even brought up the issue of a full electoral reform. I still have my doubts though if he will still think it's unfair to form a majority with 40% of the vote if he is the one forming a government with 40% of the vote. Eta: I don't mean not this election, I mean should that hypothetical day ever come. He's been preaching as the underdog thus far but we all know power corrupts. All good points. I respect the NDP for having a progressive agenda and I know that they have some really outstanding people I'm not sure how much of a progressive Mulcair is really but he would be a vast improvement over Harper. But as much as I try to like the NDP, some of them make it really hard sometimes. Cruise by rabble.ca or the tyee, both popular NDP hangouts. There are people who go after Elizabeth May in a way that is inexplicably vicious. I've heard the Green Party described as a stalking horse for the right wing. It's crazy but they believe it. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
BC_chick Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 All good points. I respect the NDP for having a progressive agenda and I know that they have some really outstanding people I'm not sure how much of a progressive Mulcair is really but he would be a vast improvement over Harper. But as much as I try to like the NDP, some of them make it really hard sometimes. Cruise by rabble.ca or the tyee, both popular NDP hangouts. There are people who go after Elizabeth May in a way that is inexplicably vicious. I've heard the Green Party described as a stalking horse for the right wing. It's crazy but they believe it. They've had their share of disappointing things, I agree, but of the three parties that have a hope of forming government I still prefer them over the other two. Both for the country as well as for the future of the Green Party. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
ReeferMadness Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 They've had their share of disappointing things, I agree, but of the three parties that have a hope of forming government I still prefer them over the other two. Both for the country as well as for the future of the Green Party. Agreed. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Vega Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Cruise by rabble.ca or the tyee, both popular NDP hangouts. There are people who go after Elizabeth May in a way that is inexplicably vicious. I've heard the Green Party described as a stalking horse for the right wing. It's crazy but they believe it. Must be a bit of projection on their part. Quote
waldo Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 By going along with Harper's anti-democratic shenanigans. e.g. not participating in the consortium debates which now included May, and participating in Harper's other debates which aren't letting May participate. Originally under Layton they tried to keep the Greens from participating in the consortium debates and succeeded, but to their shock May won a seat without being in the debate. give it a rest! If Harper refuses to appear in a debate, what sense does it make for anyone else to be there? Harper Conservatives would like nothing more than to have the other political party leaders attack each other... real fodder for "truth ads"! Obviously Mulcair has no control over Harper...ya think! Mulcair has no control over any debate organizers and the rules they dictate. as for that long debunked nonsense you've just written about Layton: Layton backs May's participation in leaders debate... both the 2008 and 2011 ("consortium") debates! Quit spreading shyte! Quote
G Huxley Posted September 6, 2015 Author Report Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) "give it a rest! If Harper refuses to appear in a debate, what sense does it make for anyone else to be there?"Because the debates aren't all about Harper they are about a democratic election process something the weasels Harper and Mulcair have been trying to prevent. If Harper doesn't want to show up to the debates like a little pouting child not wanting to participate in democracy then they should have just carried on the debates without him.Instead Mulcair went along with Harper and sidelined May. Layton had to backtrack on his trying to keep May out of the debates when the backlash including many from within his own party forced him to change his position. I remember I was one of the people posting on the NDP website asking him to stand up for democracy instead of trying to prevent it at the time. Edited September 6, 2015 by G Huxley Quote
G Huxley Posted September 6, 2015 Author Report Posted September 6, 2015 "Layton, along with Prime Minister Harper and Bloc Québécois leader Gilles Duceppe, initially opposed the inclusion of Green Party leader Elizabeth May in the leaders' televised debates.[88][89] Layton initially said that he was following the rules of the broadcast consortium, while NDP spokesman Brad Lavigne confirmed that Layton had refused to attend if May was present"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Layton Quote
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