Canadian military and security spending

[Army Guy]

The current government has some issues...The claw back of long term medical pensions was one of them....some bean counter thought it would be a great way to save funding, and it was, and is on the backs of our vets....There are pros and cons to this issue, government policy is made to benefit the majority....But don't use it as an excuse " See what happens when you vote for Harper" .....

I'm sure if we laid it all out on the table the history of the military.....and what parties that have damaged the military, along with the rest of the security apparatus the liberal list would far exceed any other party in our history....search decade of darkness.....it's got liberal finger prints all over it....

I can hardly wait to see what damage the NDP will do, in the end vets should be allowed to punch voters in face and say "stick it" like the commercial says.....

[Smallc]

I can hardly wait to see what damage the NDP will do, in the end vets should be allowed to punch voters in face and say "stick it" like the commercial says.....

NDP advisors have whispered about raising defence sending - as much as 20% ($4B in today's terms).

[Army Guy]

that would be a great rumour....but we have all heard NDP say he was not going to run a deficit so where does the money come from.

[Derek 2.0]

NDP advisors have whispered about raising defence sending - as much as 20% ($4B in today's terms).

Whispered to who? You or avowed anti-Haperite Lawrence Martin?

The only NDP defense strategy laid-out in any detail was the suggestions proposed by Mike Byers.......namely purchasing Canadian built FWSAR, reducing the fighter fleet by 1/3rd (to be replaced by the Super Hornet) and laying up the subs............any (budgeted) increase in spending would come from the procurement of such items........like it would come from a Conservative or Liberal Government when they purchase big ticket items.

The whispers I keep hearing are tens of billions of dollars of NDP spending promises, well also keeping a balanced budget.........Either taxes will be raised, the NDP is full of it or Mulcair is magic.

[Smallc]

Whispered to who? You or avowed anti-Haperite Lawrence Martin?

I'm sorry, do you have a counter cite? The NDP, even back in 2002, voted to raise defence spending by 50%.

Oh, and the NDP have already said taxes will be raised. I'm not happy about that, but it may be necessary to meet the commitments of the federal government (if only the NDP weren't so focused on daycare, something the federal government should have nothing to do with).

[Derek 2.0]

that would be a great rumour....but we have all heard NDP say he was not going to run a deficit so where does the money come from.

Political promises during an election are hardly worth their salt, let alone rumors of political promises that run counter to a parties dynamic.......Mind you, I'm sure the NDP would allocate further funds to Forces wide witch hunts and reaffirming "fairness" in the Forces and encouragement (i.e. quotas) of women, visible minorities and the LGBT community

[Derek 2.0]

I'm sorry, do you have a counter cite? The NDP, even back in 2002, voted to raise defence spending by 50%.

Oh, and the NDP have already said taxes will be raised. I'm not happy about that, but it may be necessary to meet the commitments of the federal government (if only the NDP weren't so focused on daycare, something the federal government should have nothing to do with).

The cite I provided above (for you)........and no, its not creditable or the NDP wouldn't be whispering it, as suggested by Martin, such a promise would be to gain centrist support, so why would nobody from the NDP comment on it?

[Smallc]

The cite I provided above (for you)

Which doesn't at all go against the Lawrence Martin story.

and no, its not creditable or the NDP wouldn't be whispering it, as suggested by Martin, such a promise would be to gain centrist support, so why would nobody from the NDP comment on it?

As you've so famously said, there's no reason to roll out an entire program at this point.

[Smallc]

that would be a great rumour....but we have all heard NDP say he was not going to run a deficit so where does the money come from.

Taxes.

[Derek 2.0]

Which doesn't at all go against the Lawrence Martin story.

Your "whispers" started from Martin's ass...

As you've so famously said, there's no reason to roll out an entire program at this point.

Sure, and to date, the NDP has yet to explain how they will pay for their tens of billions of new promises, yet alone any additional promise yet to be rolled out, or promises only "whispered" to some

[Derek 2.0]

Taxes.

Have you also heard whispers of what additional taxes will be raised? Oddly enough, Mulcair's proposed roll-backs and increases will only account for a portion of his promises to date.......

[Smallc]

Your "whispers" started from Martin's ass...

If you discount his sources. I guess we could just assume he's lying, along with everyone else, and just make up our own facts.

Sure, and to date, the NDP has yet to explain how they will pay for their tens of billions of new promises, yet alone any additional promise yet to be rolled out, or promises only "whispered" to some

tens of billions seems to be a large overstatement of what they're promised so far. In addition, things like healthcare seem to be something Canadians are willing to spend more on (i.e. pay more tax).

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/election/election-2015-campaign-platforms

The Conservatives also seem to have expensive promises.

The reality, above all else, is this - the Conservatives broke their promise on DND. They're cut the budget to where it was when they took office. At this spending level, the military will have to shrink in terms of people, equipment, and infrastructure. They have no credibility on this matter.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Have you also heard whispers of what additional taxes will be raised? Oddly enough, Mulcair's proposed roll-backs and increases will only account for a portion of his promises to date.......

Revenue will also grow organically, as it always has. A 2% increase in corporate taxes, elimination of income splitting and some of the Conservative tax credits will take care of much of what they're promised, when coupled with that.

[Derek 2.0]

If you discount his sources. I guess we could just assume he's lying, along with everyone else, and just make up our own facts.

Sure I discount them as NDP policy, since the NDP hasn't confirmed them........you stating it as "whispered fact" is quite different than what it is........rumors started by a person in the media that has been anti-Harper for nearly 20 years.

tens of billions seems to be a large overstatement of what they're promised so far. In addition, things like healthcare seem to be something Canadians are willing to spend more on (i.e. pay more tax).

Your source is far from detailed........already the MSM media is starting to questions Mulcair's magic:

What he wants YOU to believe is that he can take a deficit budget in a recession, spend multiple billions of dollars on new programs, not raise your personal income taxes, cut small-business taxes and produce a balanced budget immediately upon taking office.

What an amazing feat of financial prestidigitation! Either Mulcair has a money-minting genie in a magic lamp in the trunk of his campaign bus or he has some explaining to do to voters.

The reality, above all else, is this - the Conservatives broke their promise on DND. They're cut the budget to where it was when they took office. At this spending level, the military will have to shrink in terms of people, equipment, and infrastructure. They have no credibility on this matter.

Of course they cut the budget, when they took office we were engaged in a war, now we are not.......I can't think of any modern Western Democracy that increases the defense budget after a war.....And no, though I feel it should shrink in terms of people, equipment and infrastructure, the short term reduction in spending has come at the expense of no longer funding a war on the other side of the planet and decreasing the training budget........

One could argue no longer fighting a war would reduce costs, likewise cuts to training being valid, what with a solid cadre of the Forces having been engaged in an actual war for nearly a decade.........I'm sorry that you allow your opinions to be shaped to such an extent by the MSM and the Official Opposition........

[Derek 2.0]

Revenue will also grow organically, as it always has. A 2% increase in corporate taxes, elimination of income splitting and some of the Conservative tax credits will take care of much of what they're promised, when coupled with that.

No it won't

Where will he get all the money? Mulcair says he’ll scrap Stephen Harper’s income-splitting plan, but that will save only $2.4 billion, not even half of what his child-care system will cost.

He also says he would impose a “slight and graduated increase” in corporate taxes. He says that would raise another $3 billion (if you stretch the definition of “slight”).

He'll be lucky to fund his daycare promises, which still requires 40% of the costs being picked up by the Provinces.......let alone anything else well staying out of the red.........or raising taxes

Edited August 29, 2015 by Derek 2.0

[Smallc]

Sure I discount them as NDP policy, since the NDP hasn't confirmed them........you stating it as "whispered fact" is quite different than what it is........rumors started by a person in the media that has been anti-Harper for nearly 20 years.

Why would he start such rumours?

Your source is far from detailed........already the MSM is starting to questions Mulcair's magic:

He didn't say that everything would happen on day 1. Like Harper, his plan would have to be phased in.

Of course they cut the budget, when they took office we were engaged in a war, now we are not

That's not what they promised to do

I can't think of any modern Western Democracy that increases the defense budget after a war

How many others are spending 1% of GDP and falling after promising to do the exact opposite?

And no, though I feel it should shrink in terms of people, equipment and infrastructure, the short term reduction in spending has come at the expense of no longer funding a war on the other side of the planet and decreasing the training budget

'Short term reduction in spending' - like we haven't heard that before.

One could argue no longer fighting a war would reduce costs

One could argue that we shouldn't be putting off necessary expenditures on infrastructure and equipment,

likewise cuts to training being valid

training

what with a solid cadre of the Forces having been engaged in an actual war for nearly a decade

and with many people retiring and suffering from traumatic brain injury, we should be doing more, not less.

I'm sorry that you allow your opinions to be shaped to such an extent by the MSM and the Official Opposition........

I'm sorry if you have no problem apologizing for the Conservative's failures. I don't have the time.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Smallc

[Smallc]

No it won't

I've decided I'm just going to disregard all of your sources casually also.

He'll be lucky to fund his daycare promises, which still requires 40% of the costs being picked up by the Provinces.......let alone anything else well staying out of the red.........or raising taxes

With a $3B increase in revenue, he's already there, considering the total cost to government is $5B and the provinces will be paying 40%.

The other tax changes I mentioned will make up for most of the rest, along with organic revenue increases.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

Why would he start such rumours?

He's in the business of selling papers?

He didn't say that everything would happen on day 1. Like Harper, his plan would have to be phased in.

Where has he stated there will be a gradual adoption of his plan? Source? I know daycare is suppose to take over 10 years, but I haven't heard any different on his other promises....

That's not what they promised to do

I don't think anyone in '05-06 would have predicted a worldwide financial collapse...

How many others are spending 1% of GDP and falling after promising to do the exact opposite?

Nearly the same number of nations that are in deficit spending?

'Short term reduction in spending' - like we haven't heard that before.

I think it should go deeper...

One could argue that we shouldn't be putting off necessary expenditures on infrastructure and equipment,

But then one wouldn't be grounded in reality.............

training

?

and with many people retiring and suffering from traumatic brain injury, we should be doing more, not less.

That's veterans affairs.........and of course it should be cut drastically in the near future too, as the majority of the vets it serves are in their late 80s and 90s....

I'm sorry if you have no problem apologizing for the Conservative's failures. I don't have the time.

And I'm sorry that your views aren't grounded in reality and that you're gullible enough to believe the NDP will increase defense spending by ~20%

[cybercoma]

Political promises during an election are hardly worth their salt

Right. So we should just believe whatever BS you can dream up in your head instead.

[Derek 2.0]

Right. So we should just believe whatever BS you can dream up in your head instead.

Sure, or better yet, point to the actual policy, or even a hint of such policy, by any named member of the NDP.

[cybercoma]

Sure, or better yet, point to the actual policy, or even a hint of such policy, by any named member of the NDP.

Why? It wouldn't matter to you anyway.

[Smallc]

He's in the business of selling papers?

So you,re just assuming he's lying then.

Where has he stated there will be a gradual adoption of his plan? Source? I know daycare is suppose to take over 10 years, but I haven't heard any different on his other promises....

The GIS is to be phased in over 10 years. The police officers are obviously to be phased in. Home mail delivery (which I disagree with would also have to be phased back in.

I don't think anyone in '05-06 would have predicted a worldwide financial collapse

I would forgive them that, were they not continuing the neglect now.

Nearly the same number of nations that are in deficit spending?

They chose other priorities. I don't agree with those priorities. They broke their promise on this, plain and simple, and they have no plans to fix it going forward.

But then one wouldn't be grounded in reality

Based on what exactly? I guess 2006 Stephen Harper wasn't grounded in reality, either.

?

If you stop training, you lose competency. It's not difficult.

That's veterans affairs.........and of course it should be cut drastically in the near future too, as the majority of the vets it serves are in their late 80s and 90s

I agree it should be cut in some areas, but in the immediate aftermath of recent conflicts some services and payouts should have been expanded.

And I'm sorry that your views aren't grounded in reality and that you're gullible enough to believe the NDP will increase defense spending by ~20%

I've lived with an NDP provincial government for more than a decade and a half. They're not all that bad. I'm not sure I'll vote for them in the Spring, but a competent leader, like Doer was and like Mulcair seems to be, is the most important element of any government.

[Derek 2.0]

Why? It wouldn't matter to you anyway.

Not at all, but it would lend credence to Smallc's "whispers of NDP defense spending increases".........

[Smallc]

Sure, or better yet, point to the actual policy, or even a hint of such policy, by any named member of the NDP.

I've already pointed to such things. The NDP, in 2002, voted to increase defence spending by 50% at committee level. The NDP decried the cuts to the DND budget of the last few years, and has roundly criticized the rust out that has been allowed to occur in the navy. The former provincial NDP government in Nova Scotia (remember, you keep pointing out that they're one in the same) lobbied very hard for the shipbuilding contracts, and the NDP (and the Liberals, for that matter) have supported the plan from the get go. Their back room advisors are openly talking to reporters about an increase in spending.

I know none of that will matter to you, but, they couldn't do much worse than the Conservatives have in the last few years.

[Smallc]

Not at all, but it would lend credence to Smallc's "whispers of NDP defense spending increases".........

There's an article by a well known reporter in am major news paper about it. You choose to ignore it because you're a partisan Conservative with an agenda. I don't have same said agenda.