Are Tory MPs being muzzled?

[ToadBrother]

Just wondering with all the problems the Tory Party are having with people within the party, could be some members want Harper to lose and get rid of him, so they can get a better leader for the party??

That's a frequent problem for all leaders. The circling of the wagons can give the appearances of a unified front, but what you can't see from the outside is how many of the rifles are pointed at the charge hand!

In the aftermath of the original Duffy allegations, there was a few days or weeks where the general thought was that Harper would not likely lead the party into another election. There was some jostling, and Jason Kenney in particular seemed to stick his neck out just the tiniest bit with some strong defenses of Nigel Wright. Certainly there were mutterings in caucus, and by all accounts for the first post-Dufyfgate caucus meeting was a fiery one, with Harper apparently being put in the somewhat unfamiliar position of his MPs vocally attacking the conduct of his office. The mutterings went on for some time, all the way to Harper's Arctic visit last year, when he finally made it clear he intended to lead the Tories into the next election.

But you can be sure that as the Tories flounder, with a majority, or even a large minority, seeming all but unobtainable, that some of the rifles are now pointed inward. Jenni Byrne has become what campaign managers often become when campaigns start to flounder; the proxy for the leader. No one will attack the Prime Minister, but by attacking Byrne and other bigwigs in the campaign, they make their dissatisfaction in the leader clear.

[Argus]

Just wondering with all the problems the Tory Party are having with people within the party, could be some members want Harper to lose and get rid of him, so they can get a better leader for the party??

I want him gone too but I'm sure not willing to risk what Trudeau or the NDP can do to us just to get that done. He'll almost certainly leave even if he wins, if not immediately. I don't see him running another election after this.

[Argus]

Yes, I realize this is now the Tories' campaign slogan. "We suck, but so do they..."

I've voted in every election since about 1970 on that basis, selecting the least worse idiot for the job. I've never seen a politician I could actually vote FOR.

[ToadBrother]

I want him gone too but I'm sure not willing to risk what Trudeau or the NDP can do to us just to get that done. He'll almost certainly leave even if he wins, if not immediately. I don't see him running another election after this.

And what do you think will happen? While political parties love to pose the question in apocalyptic terms, in reality, everyone is so crowded towards the center these days, I almost want to say we have one major federal party (ConDemLib???) with three caucuses.

I don't like the idea of an NDP government, but really, I sensible enough to realize the world will not end on the day Thomas Mulcair is sworn Prime Minister. The same applies for Justin Trudeau, and yes, even for Stephen Harper if he remains PM.

There is no coming End Times that require voters pick a specific party to win, even though all the parties would love us to believe it. Heck, if I listened to most partisans, no other party but their preferred one would ever form government. Partisanship is, in its own way, fundamentally undemocratic.

[Argus]

And what do you think will happen? While political parties love to pose the question in apocalyptic terms, in reality, everyone is so crowded towards the center these days, I almost want to say we have one major federal party (ConDemLib???) with three caucuses.

For the Liberals, I only have to see what Dalton McGuinty, Trudeau's soulmate, has done to Ontario. They are two peas in a pod. For the NDP, and quite possibly the Liberals too, a change in how government is elected leading to proportionate rep, an explosion of parties, no more majorities, unstable government. Also for both, an expensive, and wasteful carbon taxing or cap and trade system that costs billions, plus heavy regulations to curtail oil development, and many other new taxes. A massive increase in immigration, especially of 'family class' immigrants who do not require any kind of skills or education, plus many tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of more refugees. That's just to start.

[ToadBrother]

For the Liberals, I only have to see what Dalton McGuinty, Trudeau's soulmate, has done to Ontario. They are two peas in a pod. For the NDP, and quite possibly the Liberals too, a change in how government is elected leading to proportionate rep, an explosion of parties, no more majorities, unstable government. Also for both, an expensive, and wasteful carbon taxing or cap and trade system that costs billions, plus heavy regulations to curtail oil development, and many other new taxes. A massive increase in immigration, especially of 'family class' immigrants who do not require any kind of skills or education, plus many tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of more refugees. That's just to start.

Carbon pricing is coming sooner or later no matter what. Get used to the idea.

[Argus]

Carbon pricing is coming sooner or later no matter what. Get used to the idea.

I think we all know the Tories will apply it a lot less enthusiastically, and with a lot more common sense than the other two parties.

And you think the other reasons too insubstantial to comment on?

[ToadBrother]

I think we all know the Tories will apply it a lot less enthusiastically, and with a lot more common sense than the other two parties.

And you think the other reasons too insubstantial to comment on?

They will apply it in such a way as to make sure the oil keeps flowing. Even the major Canadian oil producers are preparing for it. It's coming, it will be sensible no matter who is in power, so again, not apocalypse.

[Argus]

They will apply it in such a way as to make sure the oil keeps flowing. Even the major Canadian oil producers are preparing for it. It's coming, it will be sensible no matter who is in power, so again, not apocalypse.

I don't believe I predicted an apocalypse, did I? If your standard is that you're willing to vote for any party that will get rid of Harper but won't bring about an apocalypse, well then, okay. I don't want a French Dalton Mcguinty as PM, and I don't want soft headed, anti-capitalist socialists in power either.

And this is how something as basic as an immigration/refugee policy can get out of hand when handled by such people. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/swedens-ugly-immigration-problem/article26338254/

Edited September 12, 2015 by Argus

[SpankyMcFarland]

I don't believe I predicted an apocalypse, did I? If your standard is that you're willing to vote for any party that will get rid of Harper but won't bring about an apocalypse, well then, okay. I don't want a French Dalton Mcguinty as PM, and I don't want soft headed, anti-capitalist socialists in power either.

And this is how something as basic as an immigration/refugee policy can get out of hand when handled by such people. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/swedens-ugly-immigration-problem/article26338254/

The topic here is muzzling of Tory MPs. Have you forgotten that? You seem to have descended into some sort of ends justify the means argument that concedes the point. Edited September 14, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland