Greece? Add about 4% to Harper's Numbers

Bryan · July 7, 2015

This is pretty vague about what exactly was rosy about the Greek economy in late 2014.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/01/greek-economy-turned-around-yannis-starnouras-finance-minister

On the fiscal front, Greece has achieved the largest adjustment in global financial history. More than 85% of the consolidation needed in the primary balance to reduce debt to sustainable levels by 2020 has already been achieved.

Since 2009 the headline primary deficit has declined by more than 10% of GDP. It is estimated that in 2013 the primary surplus of the general government exceeded 1% of GDP compared with a target of zero.

Moreover, since 2009 Greece's cyclically adjusted primary balance has improved by more than 20% of GDP. Again, there is no other case of such an adjustment in global financial history.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

Exponentially more credible than anything you've ever written here.

So you have nothing other than a conservative editorial then? Duly noted. Get back to me when you have an official source and not some other conservative's opinion from the most conservative paper in the country. Maybe use official sources and reply with your own thoughts for a change. People might actually start thinking you have something to offer here.

Bryan · July 7, 2015

So you have nothing other than a conservative editorial then? Duly noted. Get back to me when you have an official source and not some other conservative's opinion from the most conservative paper in the country. Maybe use official sources and reply with your own thoughts for a change. People might actually start thinking you have something to offer here.

Maybe, read before you post. You'll get burned by your ignorance a little less.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/01/greek-economy-turned-around-yannis-starnouras-finance-minister

Hey, you notice at the top of the page there where it says "Opinions"? Yeah. That means you're posting commentary. Not actual news. Not official sources. Not facts. Commentary. Someone's opinion.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

Maybe, read before you post. You'll get burned by your ignorance a little less.

Burned by MY ignorance? You're the one who seems to be struggling with the idea of an official source, as you clamour to find articles of people's opinions that agree with yours.

Bryan · July 7, 2015

Hey, you notice at the top of the page there where it says "Opinions"? Yeah. That means you're posting commentary. Not actual news. Not official sources. Not facts. Commentary. Someone's opinion.

Again, your lack of read comprehension fails you. The quote is from The Greek Finance Minister at the time.

blueblood · July 7, 2015

Hey, you notice at the top of the page there where it says "Opinions"? Yeah. That means you're posting commentary. Not actual news. Not official sources. Not facts. Commentary. Someone's opinion.

i get it, just like u called the guardians story on the irish economy bs propaganda!! ??

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

Again, your lack of read comprehension fails you. The quote is from The Greek Finance Minister at the time.

Right. I can't for the life of me understand what the Greek finance minister would have to gain from inserting political bias into that commentary and trying to reassure markets.

Maybe italics will help.

Opinion Commentaries, especially from politicians, are not official sources.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

i get it, just like u called the guardians story on the irish economy bs propaganda!!

With people defaulting on mortgages and massive unemployment, yeah...it's BS propaganda to try and spur on the economy.

"Really investors! It's not as bad as it looks!"

Utter garbage.

blueblood · July 7, 2015

With people defaulting on mortgages and massive unemployment, yeah...it's BS propaganda to try and spur on the economy.

"Really investors! It's not as bad as it looks!"

Utter garbage.

15 to 10% is a nice drop plus it has nice growth. Like i said early stages. Looks like austerity working.

heck even the liberals of the 90s had to go through some austerity when the bond vultures come calling. Worked pretty good for us...

Bryan · July 7, 2015

Right. I can't for the life of me understand what the Greek finance minister would have to gain from inserting political bias into that commentary and trying to reassure markets.

Maybe italics will help.

Opinion Commentaries, especially from politicians, are not official sources.

Standard boilerplate so that no one sues the paper.

You're seriously going with the Finance Minister not being an official source?

Evening Star · July 7, 2015

15 to 10% is a nice drop plus it has nice growth. Like i said early stages. Looks like austerity working.

heck even the liberals of the 90s had to go through some austerity when the bond vultures come calling. Worked pretty good for us...

Krugman's argument was that the reason this worked in Canada was that it was accompanied by a currency devaluation that made exports more competitive, that without this, the austerity measures led to collapse/depression in Greece.

Smallc · July 7, 2015

Cabinet Ministers don't have the luxury of making offhand remarks. Any comment they make is government policy. That's not my rule, that's the way parliament has worked forever.

That's not true at all. Any comment they make can be government policy, but if the people further up the chain say that it isn't, it's not.

Smallc · July 7, 2015

Even if I were to assume this logic works (and I find cyber more convincing so far), I'm not sure that "Yes to democracy; No to austerity" means this.

It paints austerity in a negative light. Austerity in a country that is about to default but by the grace of others is a must.

Nikki Ashton is a senior member in the party. If it isn't party policy it's not incumbent on the party to say so.

Smallc · July 7, 2015

And 2 billion gone out of the rainy day fund for a faux balanced budget.

I don't know how many times you need to be told that there's no such fund.

blueblood · July 7, 2015

Krugman's argument was that the reason this worked in Canada was that it was accompanied by a currency devaluation that made exports more competitive, that without this, the austerity measures led to collapse/depression in Greece. .

Personally i think krugman is a fool, a nobel prize winning fool.

The bond vultures were coming and the bills still had to get paid.

Ireland is an exporting country yet it is getting itself out of its mess by austerity and a low rate yet still using the same currency.

Things will be better in canada when ceta goes into affect and the tpp is hammered out.

Evening Star · July 7, 2015

This seems on point (and gives one partial explanation as to the low level of tax collection): http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-referendum-result-and-the-meaning-of-debt-2015-7

Edited July 7, 2015 by Evening Star

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

That's not true at all. Any comment they make can be government policy, but if the people further up the chain say that it isn't, it's not.

Cabinet ministers ARE the government, not the party.

Shadow cabinet is not any official political body in our parliament. It's something parties made up to market themselves and divide responsibilities. Saying Niki Ashton's words would be NDP government policy is as stupid as something else you've denounced in the past and that's calling Woodworth's opinions and commentary on abortion government policy. You'll remember that O'Connor gave a passionate speech against Woodworth's remarks.

Edited July 7, 2015 by cybercoma

blueblood · July 7, 2015

This seems on point (and gives one partial explanation as to the low level of tax collection): http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-referendum-result-and-the-meaning-of-debt-2015-7

Its a good point. However one knows that getting financing is pretty hard without loans with interest, it took the dark ages to figure that one out.

Edited July 7, 2015 by blueblood

On Guard for Thee · July 7, 2015

I don't know how many times you need to be told that there's no such fund.

Well 2 thirds of it of longer exists. Even Harper admits that.

Smallc · July 7, 2015

Cabinet ministers ARE the government, not the party.

Shadow cabinet is not any official political body in our parliament. It's something parties made up to market themselves and divide responsibilities. Saying Niki Ashton's words would be NDP government policy .

They put her in that position. She's obviously authorized to speak for the NDP. You trying to make a distinction here doesn't make a difference. One is the way parliament is. The other is reality, no matter which party we're taking about. From this we can infer that the NDP would never go for austerity of any kind. I'll probably vote for the Manitoba NDP in the spring, but I can't go for this.

Smallc · July 7, 2015

Well 2 thirds of it of longer exists. Even Harper admits that.

It never existed.

On Guard for Thee · July 7, 2015

It never existed.

Yeah it did, and still does, although 2 billion went to achieve the so called balanced budget.

blueblood · July 7, 2015

They put her in that position. She's obviously authorized to speak for the NDP. You trying to make a distinction here doesn't make a difference. One is the way parliament is. The other is reality, no matter which party we're taking about. From this we can infer that the NDP would never go for austerity of any kind. I'll probably vote for the Manitoba NDP in the spring, but I can't go for this.

Hooray for 417 million dollar deficits, caving into the kennedys by having an extra billion dollar power line down the wrong side of the lake and an 8% pst!!

Evening Star · July 7, 2015

I'll grant that it was probably not the wisest idea for Ashton to go ahead and make public pronouncements on international issues on her own via social media before there was an official party statement.