Derek 2.0 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Are they gonna try and take the tar sands along with them... They don't need to, fore many of the same companies involved in the Albertan Tar Sands have been (prior to even the price oil decline) increasing investment in Saskatchewan's tar sands, likewise the Bakken/Williston basin........Alberta isn't the only game in town. And the Saskatchewan Government hasn't been proposing scalping Big Oil.........Cenovus is already Long Gone for Saskatchewan The Alberta NDP is already doing to the Albertan oil & gas industry, what the BC NDP did to our lumber and pulp/paper industries...... Edited June 20, 2015 by Derek 2.0 Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 They don't need to, fore many of the same companies involved in the Albertan Tar Sands have been (prior to even the price oil decline) increasing investment in Saskatchewan's tar sands, likewise the Bakken/Williston basin........Alberta isn't the only game in town. And the Saskatchewan Government hasn't been proposing scalping Big Oil.........Cenovus is already Long Gone for Saskatchewan The Alberta NDP is already doing to the Albertan oil & gas industry, what the BC NDP did to our lumber and pulp/paper industries...... So you agree, they cant just take it with them. We got it, they, we wat it, why should we continue to give it away. Of course we would be much better off pursuing renewables before we are forced too. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 So you agree, they cant just take it with them. We got it, they, we wat it, why should we continue to give it away. Of course we would be much better off pursuing renewables before we are forced too. I never said they could "take it with them".......they would have no need, as there is greater potential in business friendly Saskatchewan, where most of said companies already have footprints..... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 I never said they could "take it with them".......they would have no need, as there is greater potential in business friendly Saskatchewan, where most of said companies already have footprints..... My point is, right wing governments in Canada tend to sell off our assets at bargain basement prices...BC coal, Alta.tar sands, GM stocks etc. Maybe its time to stop that. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 My point is, right wing governments in Canada tend to sell off our assets at bargain basement prices...BC coal, Alta.tar sands, GM stocks etc. Maybe its time to stop that. You consider the Trudeau Liberals as "right-wing"? I ask, since they too oppose raising corporate taxes and scaring off international investment.....as without international investment, there would be little to no money to develop our natural resources........hence the destruction of our economy. Ask yourself why both the Tories and Liberals agree on this rare economic point....... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 You consider the Trudeau Liberals as "right-wing"? I ask, since they too oppose raising corporate taxes and scaring off international investment.....as without international investment, there would be little to no money to develop our natural resources........hence the destruction of our economy. Ask yourself why both the Tories and Liberals agree on this rare economic point....... Because they both seem to more or less subscribe to the same concept of letting it go to the lowest bidder, as log as there are some votes involved. Quote
Canada_First Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Because they both seem to more or less subscribe to the same concept of letting it go to the lowest bidder, as log as there are some votes involved. Please explain how raising taxes on our largest employers and the people who invest the most in Canada will help our economy. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Please explain how raising taxes on our largest employers and the people who invest the most in Canada will help our economy. Well first of all, if you look back you can see how lowering taxes (the hst) when Harper took power started us off on nearly a decade of deficits. However, I haven't suggested raising taxes, only royalties. There is a difference. If you think we should just continue more or less giving away our natural resources, well then I guess you wish us to continue as hewers of wood... Quote
Canada_First Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Well first of all, if you look back you can see how lowering taxes (the hst) when Harper took power started us off on nearly a decade of deficits. However, I haven't suggested raising taxes, only royalties. There is a difference. If you think we should just continue more or less giving away our natural resources, well then I guess you wish us to continue as hewers of wood... Which party is going to do that? Quote
cybercoma Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Has anyone reconciled their taxation hysterics with the fat that the NDP's corporate tax is still lower than taxes were under King Ralph? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Has anyone reconciled their taxation hysterics with the fat that the NDP's corporate tax is still lower than taxes were under King Ralph? Huh? King Ralph brought the corporate tax rate in Alberta down to its previous 10%, from a previous high of 15.5% when he took office, reducing it each and every year............ Gotta love NDP/Socialist math where 10% is higher than 12%..........what's next? Will Comrade Notely actually reduce the royalties by increasing them? What's with the NDP, tax rates and basic math? Quote
Vancouver King Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Please explain how raising taxes on our largest employers and the people who invest the most in Canada will help our economy. Canada's job creators are small & medium size companies - not big corporations. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
Vancouver King Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Huh? King Ralph brought the corporate tax rate in Alberta down to its previous 10%, from a previous high of 15.5% when he took office, reducing it each and every year............ Gotta love NDP/Socialist math where 10% is higher than 12%..........what's next? Will Comrade Notely actually reduce the royalties by increasing them? What's with the NDP, tax rates and basic math? In fact it was such a right wing utopia, Albertans kicked their asses out of office leaving a pathetic rump of 9 MLAs Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
cybercoma Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Huh? King Ralph brought the corporate tax rate in Alberta down to its previous 10%, from a previous high of 15.5% when he took office, reducing it each and every year............ Gotta love NDP/Socialist math where 10% is higher than 12%..........what's next? Will Comrade Notely actually reduce the royalties by increasing them? What's with the NDP, tax rates and basic math? And it must have been an absolute wasteland with no business whatsoever in Alberta, right? Is Alberta such a dump that the only reason anyone would set up shop there is lower taxes? Edited June 20, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 And it must have been an absolute wasteland with no business whatsoever in Alberta, right? Is Alberta such a dump that the only reason anyone would set up shop there is lower taxes? In many ways yes, the question you should ask yourself though, is to why business would remain when business friendly Saskatchewan also has oil? Quote
Argus Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Canada's job creators are small & medium size companies - not big corporations. Which require investment to expand, which they won't get if you double the capital gains tax. And btw, big corporations employ an enormous number of people. Edited June 20, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Well first of all, if you look back you can see how lowering taxes (the hst) when Harper took power started us off on nearly a decade of deficits. . No, it actually didn't. We had surpluses after that too. It was the recession which did that. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
TimG Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) And it must have been an absolute wasteland with no business whatsoever in Alberta, right? Is Alberta such a dump that the only reason anyone would set up shop there is lower taxes?Alberta is out of the way and that is a disadvantage for many people starting businesses that either need to recruit skilled people or ship products to market. This means Alberta must have another advantage compared to larger centers like Vancouver or Toronto if it wants its non-oil economy to grow. A business friendly environment is a good way to do that. Unfortunately, it would take a decade or more before the regressive policies introduced by the NDP will have their effect which means people will continue to delude themselves into believing it is possible to tax "others" to pay for their services without negative consequences. If Alberta needs to raise taxes to cover its deficit it should come from everyone - picking on the "rich" or "corporations" is a path to ruin. If you want data look at the effect tax, spend and regulate everything is having on California: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/upshot/the-california-exodus.html?abt=0002&abg=1 People vote with their feet and they are choosing business friendly states by a wide margin. Edited June 21, 2015 by TimG Quote
Keepitsimple Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately, it would take a decade or more before the regressive policies introduced by the NDP will have their effect which means people will continue to delude themselves into believing it is possible to tax "others" to pay for their services without negative consequences. If Alberta needs to raise taxes to cover its deficit it should come from everyone - picking on the "rich" or "corporations" is a path to ruin. If you want data look at the effect tax, spend and regulate everything is having on California: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/upshot/the-california-exodus.html?abt=0002&abg=1 People vote with their feet and they are choosing business friendly states by a wide margin. Like they say - Socialism fails when it runs out of "other peoples'" money to spend. Edited June 21, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
jacee Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Canada's job creators are small & medium size companies - not big corporations. https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/02812.html'>Figure 13: Share of GDP within Industries by Size of Business Establishment, 2008 Edited June 21, 2015 by jacee Quote
cybercoma Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 In many ways yes If you're going to live in a fantasy world, there's no point even discussing it with you. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Like they say - Socialism fails when it runs out of "other peoples'" money to spend. What socialism? Hysterical much? Taxes now are suddenly socialism? How exactly did you want to pay for those military exploits and expanded surveillance you love so much? Edited June 21, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Alberta is out of the way and that is a disadvantage for many people starting businesses that either need to recruit skilled people or ship products to market. This means Alberta must have another advantage compared to larger centers like Vancouver or Toronto if it wants its non-oil economy to grow. A business friendly environment is a good way to do that. Unfortunately, it would take a decade or more before the regressive policies introduced by the NDP will have their effect which means people will continue to delude themselves into believing it is possible to tax "others" to pay for their services without negative consequences. If Alberta needs to raise taxes to cover its deficit it should come from everyone - picking on the "rich" or "corporations" is a path to ruin. If you want data look at the effect tax, spend and regulate everything is having on California: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/upshot/the-california-exodus.html?abt=0002&abg=1 People vote with their feet and they are choosing business friendly states by a wide margin. I like how you hedge your arguments with your crystal ball by saying we won't see the effects for at least a decade. The fact of the matter is Alberta, even with a 2 point hike is only half a point above Ontario and a tenth of a point above Quebec. It's one point above BC, who just raised it to 11. It's substantially lower than the Atlantic provinces and tied with everyone else. In other words, there's virtually no difference between Alberta's corporate tax rate and the rest of the country, except for Atlantic Canada where the corporate taxes are substantially higher at 14% (NL) and 16% (NB, NS, PE). So you think suddenly businesses are going to fold up shop and go to another country because the corporate tax rate in Alberta is now on par with the rest of the country and lower than the Atlantic provinces? Go ahead and look at the corporate tax rates for various OECD nations: http://taxfoundation.org/blog/another-study-confirms-us-has-one-highest-effective-corporate-tax-rates-world Tell me, do you think we're going to have a lot of businesses packing up and going to Slovenia, Turkey, Czech Republic, and Estonia to get away from the "crippling" tax "burden" we place on them here in Canada? All of this whining from the right about a 2 point increase is absurd. It's a drop in the god damned bucket and will have virtually no effect whatsoever on business. The price of oil has a had a far bigger effect and other global factors will have a far bigger effect than a lousy 2 point increase. Did anyone even notice a difference when the GST was dropped 2 points? It was practically negligible. Retailers write off more than that in shrink every year. It's a joke that anyone would think this would have any sort of appreciable effect on corporate flight. Edited June 21, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 If you're going to live in a fantasy world, there's no point even discussing it with you. The only fantasy world is the one where people think oil companies will stay in Alberta, when Saskatchewan offers a discounted 10% corporate tax rate to processors of bitumen, in addition tax credits to said companies that relocate research and head offices to the Province......not to mention royalties on O&G........ Regina will be the new Calgary, and Estevan the new Fort Mac........Already companies are expanding both storage and pipelines in the Province, namely in the Southern Region (in and around Estevan), which by happenstance is sitting on far more resources and is hundreds of miles closer to market.......Companies are already leaving Alberta....... Quote
TimG Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) I like how you hedge your arguments with your crystal ball by saying we won't see the effects for at least a decade.This is simply the truth. Anyone who argues that the effects of tax policy changes will appear during the tenure of the government who changed them is not making sense (yes that include conservatives claiming tax cuts are short term stimulus). The fact of the matter is Alberta, even with a 2 point hike is only half a point above Ontario and a tenth of a point above Quebec.Actually, it is not the taxes that are most harmful. It is the petty regulations that are the job killers (i.e. increasing minimum wages, various environment standards designed to please a base of eco-hypocrites instead of based on what makes rational sense for the environment). At least that is what is behind the exodus from California. Every business person I have read talk about it says they could live with the taxes if it was not for the regulations that turn every simple task into a bureaucratic nightmare. IOW, if the NDP just raised taxes a bit then I would have no issue because some times taxes have to go up. It is their plans on regulation which worry me. That said, if taxes have to go up then they should go up on everyone since picking on a subset of population is a shell game. BTW, it will be interesting to compare their expected revenue with their actually revenue four years from now. I would be very surprised if revenue from the scapegoated groups actual met expectations. For example, when one US state introduced a millionaire tax the next year they had no millionaires to pay the tax. Edited June 21, 2015 by TimG Quote
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