US Citizens Are Coming, US Citizens Are Coming

[fellowtraveller]

Americans emigrating to Canada? What a novel idea. Perhaps that would reverse the longtime trend of many more Canadians emigrating to America than vice versa, at about a 5 to one ratio.

They're welcome here, but they'll have to get in line with everybody else.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I'll start with Parrish.

She should keep her mouth in check unless or until she arrives in a position to be representing the government or people of Canada.

Nonsense. She's as entitled to her opinions as you are to yours.

[I miss Reagan]

I'll start with Parrish.

She should keep her mouth in check unless or until she arrives in a position to be representing the government or people of Canada.

Nonsense. She's as entitled to her opinions as you are to yours.

Yes she is as are all Canadians. The problem is Canadians are unwilling to accept the consequences. Consequences such as tarriffs and barriers imposed on our trade or a US snub for our concerns on important issues to us. The Canadian response is "we are an independent country". Well then the US has a choice as well don't they? They can choose how courteously they want to treat an "independent country" that continuously spits in their face.

[I miss Reagan]

I wanted to avoid this thread.

The American Left is flaky. I learned this in Amsterdam, many years ago, talking to a NYC Marxist who had gone to Soviet Russia, toughed out several months, and then decided Pravda was not the truth.

On one side, we have flaky Americans. On the other side, we have inferior-complexed Canadians. The two produce a Tijuana marriage made in heaven. It'll last several weeks.

End of story.

This is true, it'll die in a matter of days and those who do actually move up here will realize how much better it was in the states and move back. Did anyone hear about Robert Redford saying he was moving to Ireland? I guess a radio station is buying him a ticket to go next week. We'll see if he pony's up.

[Newfie Canadian]

Nonsense. She's as entitled to her opinions as you are to yours.

She's a politician who has an obligation to think of others.

1) She did this in the face of a directive from her PM to not do exactly what she did.

2) She has a responsibilty as an elected official to look out for the good of a)her constituents b)the government of which she is a part and c)the country.

For the love of God, tell me how her shooting her face off helps anyone.

3) She insulted the population of our biggest trading partner, strongest ally without regard to the damage it may do to relations.

If we don't hold our politicians to a little higher standard in regards to onternational relations and diplomacy, we deserve the crap we get from them.

Did anyone hear about Robert Redford saying he was moving to Ireland?

I heard an unsubstantiated report from that O'Reilly schmuck.

[Guest eureka]

How many times does this have to be brought up? Parrish's comments are mild compared to what American politicians and commentators say about Canadians: American Presidents too. What Parrish says is nothing to what a great many Canadians are saying and it is time that America knew what the world is thinking.

Physical attacks by American Presidents on Canadian Prime Ministers apparently are to be accepted as good for the trading relationship, are they?

Diplomacy counts for nothing with this "New" America. It needs to be told bluntly what it is and what will be done. The idea of America as the only "superpower" and that we must suffer its arrogance is simply cowardice. America needs the world, and Canada, every bit as much as the reverse. It is America that must change its ways and its bluster not others that must bite their tongues.

Good for Parrish and let Martin know that we are not doormats.

[Cartman]

I think Parrish has every right to express her feelings about foreign affairs, but she should do so in a more congenial and professional fashion. Having said that, I doubt that the Americans ever hear about her. Most do not even know who our PM is so I doubt she makes any ripples down there.

As for US people fleeing to Canada, I highly doubt that there will be very many. The death toll in Iraq will have to get much higher before this happens in large numbers. These individuals should be welcomed just as any others are. Relatively speaking, we have a welcoming immigration system here. I would think that the free market theorists here (righties) would say "let the market decide".

[Newfie Canadian]

I doubt that the Americans ever hear about her. Most do not even know who our PM is so I doubt she makes any ripples down there

I wouldn't be too sure, Cartman.

There are media personalities, particularly from the right, that zero in on these things like a smart bomb. They love repeating anything negative, so it seems.

In regards of a wide range of Americans hearing and caring about it, who knows?

Parrish's comments are mild compared to what American politicians and commentators say about Canadians: American Presidents too

So what you're saying is it is OK to sink to that level. I don't believe that for a second.

Plus, you would think that as a former teacher, a writer and now parliamentarian, she'd be more articulate and diplomatic.

[I miss Reagan]

Nonsense. She's as entitled to her opinions as you are to yours.

She's a politician who has an obligation to think of others.

2) She has a responsibilty as an elected official to look out for the good of a)her constituents b)the government of which she is a part and c)the country.

For the love of God, tell me how her shooting her face off helps anyone.

3) She insulted the population of our biggest trading partner, strongest ally without regard to the damage it may do to relations.

You'd be right if people didn't agree with her. She won her riding by a landslide. Most Canadians agree with her.

[I miss Reagan]

If we don't hold our politicians to a little higher standard in regards to onternational relations and diplomacy, we deserve the crap we get from them.

You're right, Canadians deserve a hell of a lot more than they're getting. Although sometimes the guys like the ranchers must face the repercussions of our liberal's stupidity. Perhaps when China takes over as the US's number 1 trading partner in the next couple years it'll hit eastern canada.

[Newfie Canadian]

I hear what you're saying IMR, she's been an MP since 1993 so she must be doing something right, but even if she's right she was wrong to say what she said and how she said it.

Paul Martin has promised that all current Liberal MP's wouldn't have to go through the normal riding nomination process in the next election. I wonder if he will make an exvception for Parrish.

EDIT*

For the record, we aren't the only destination apparently.

Meanwhile, the embassies of Australia, New Zealand and Canada are reporting a surge in inquiries from Americans looking to move to their respective countries.

The Australian Consulate says, "Americans are funny. They don't get their own way, so they want to move."

And a New Zealand official, quoted by the San Francisco Chronicle , wants Americans to know his country is picky — primarily welcoming only younger, educated applicants with specific skills

Edited November 6, 2004 by Newfie Canadian

[August1991]

Carolyn Parrish is an MP. She should be entitled to say what she thinks.

REBEL Labour MP for Hampstead and Highgate Glenda Jackson widened her rift with Prime Minister Tony Blair on Thursday when she accused him of giving right-wing American policies “an unnatural home in 10 Downing Street”.

British Local Paper

[Guest eureka]

When Lyndon Johnson physically attacked Lester Pearson did you hear any outcry? When insult after insult was poured on Diefenbaker and Trudeau bu the American Presidents of their times and their media and officials did you hear any outcry?

We tended to think of it as amusing and a sign of the immaturity of our neighbour. There was no condemnation in their officialdom and no protest from Canada.

This is not sinking to any level: it is responding with what they understand. Martin would not dare to "reprimand" Parrish. It might open a can that he would want to keep sealed.

It is a little pathetic to say that we must not say anything to upset our "trading" partner. Trade is a two way street and commentary has to be the same. Can we not speak truth for fear the elephant may roar?

[August1991]

When Lyndon Johnson physically attacked Lester Pearson did you hear any outcry?

WTF?

Eureka, I admire the simplism of your advised foreign policy, "Hate the US".

Unfortunately, it would just make us sound like underdog victims.

Eureka, sometimes the weak and downtrodden are wrong. And sometimes the strong and overbearing are right. Not always, but sometimes.

[Newfie Canadian]

When Lyndon Johnson physically attacked Lester Pearson did you hear any outcry? When insult after insult was poured on Diefenbaker and Trudeau bu the American Presidents of their times and their media and officials did you hear any outcry?

I don't know, I wasn't born or old enough to realize.

Trade is a two way street and commentary has to be the same.

Intelligent and constructive commentary certainly. Was that what Parrish did, offer intelligent and constructive commentary?

Can we not speak truth for fear the elephant may roar?

Elephants don't roar, they trumpet.

Trudeau spoke intelligently and accurately when he spoke those famous words. He said we are affected with every twitch and grunt. What are we going to do with a trumpet?

Look, I'm not saying don't criticize the US (Lord knows I've done plenty of it, and wil continue to). I'm not saying roll over every time they want something. I'm not saying agree with the US on everything. I'm not saying kowtow to their every demand. But why be insulting, degrading and crass?

No one has said yet how it helps anyone.

[Guest eureka]

Johnson did attack Pearson. Did you not hear of the incident where he grabbed Pearson by the collar and threatend him. I admired Pearson's restraint for he had been something of an athlete in his day and could have licked that Texan.

My position is not to "hate" the USA. Not at all. I will not, however, succumb to the idea that we are forever to be a supplicant for American favour. Do you people have no pride? Pride as differentiated from hubris which is what we have to suffer.

What more constructive could Parrish say than she did? Bush is "war-like;" America is out of step with the rest of the world. Isn't that being constructive to tell them so? Would it have been more palatable if she had said "don't be war-like; get in step with the world?"

As for Bush being a moron, we know that he is not quite a moron. We also know that his policies, domestic and foreign, are moronic. Why should he be allowed to think that he has "political capital" in anything but his own misinformed constituency?

We also may think, but not know for sure, that the administration is not comprised of "bastards." Bastards, that is, in the literal sense. We do know that its actions are those of that breed in the commonly used sense of the term.

Elephants may "trumpet" but the GOP is an elephant unlike any other. It roars like the lion in the Wizard of Oz. It will sink to a grumble when its economic interests are threatened.

[August1991]

Johnson did attack Pearson. Did you not hear of the incident where he grabbed Pearson by the collar and threatend him.

The collar was Nixon and Ziegler. Johnson lifted his dogs by their ears. The Johnson-Pearson story was different.

"Do you know what your president said to my prime minister?" She said, looking at me hard. I sat uncomfortably on her desk and squirmed in anticipation of the answer. She continued, “He grabbed him by the shirt collar and said, ‘Pearson, you’ve pissed on my carpet!’” I had been experiencing conversations like these for the past four months, and I still dreaded them.

Some web site

Apocryphal story, repeated endlessly. Ever see a photo of Pearson's shirts at the time?

The correct reference is "pissing on a carpet". (LBJ did say that!) Eureka, do you know what LBJ referred to?

Eureka, if you want to be pro-Canadian Liberal PM, anti-Democrat American President, at least get your facts straight.

[bTW, what did JFK do to Dief?]

America is out of step with the rest of the world.

300 million people, all out of step? The masses are confused?

When you use the word "America", what do you mean?

[caesar]

Americans emigrating to Canada? What a novel idea. Perhaps that would reverse the longtime trend of many more Canadians emigrating to America than vice versa, at about a 5 to one ratio

Nothing that novel about it. There were many who came to Canada during the Vietnam War. We already have plenty of Americans already living here. They come for the lifestyle; Canadian go to the USA for the cash.

[kimmy]

My grandparents were Minnesota Swedes who came north and west in the 1920s.

I guess they were just ahead of their time.

-kimmy

[Guest eureka]

It is not an apochryphal story and I have known of it for many years. I don't know about that web site and I am not intrested in it. You don't like the web site so therefore it is apocryphal? I would suggest that you look at facts in order to get them straight. You are the first denier of that story that I have ever come across.

300 million people out of step. yes, if they all support the course of action. Or would you rather have it that the other 6 billion or so are all out of step?

You know what I mean by America since Americans call their country America. You know, America the beautiful and all that jazz.

[takeanumber]

First I'll address Parish.

I find it absolutely hillarious that the Cons are complaining about 'free speech'. Again, it's all about the Cons being their hypocritical selves as usual.

You can bash the queers, but heaven forbid you bash the Americans.

I'm not going to address the specific concerns of Cons until they can get consistent on a single point, at least once.

I won't hold my breath.

--------------

Second:

the wave of moderate and dare I say, liberal Americans northward has already begun.

I know, personally, 3 Americans who are moving up from the southern states up to Calgary -- and this was before the election. Why? In their words "I can't take it anymore".

Since the election, I know of 2 more who are comming up.

They're sick and tired of being sick and tired.

They don't like being made to be feel afraid all the time. They really hate having religion being shoved at them. They don't like pollution that much. They've had enough of the racial hatred too.

All of this brings me to my third point:

-----------

Third:

the election made me realize how luck we are to be in Canada: free.

The thought occured to me that it might be a good idea to firewall a few Canadian values against Republicanism and moreover, against the Conservatives in this country who would do harm to Canadian values.

We need to realize that Harper and his unnaturalized American colleagues pose a direct threat to Canadian values: equal opportunity, equal healthcare, and security of the person, and freedom from fear.

I'm so happy we have a Liberal government in power.

It's sad that it took a Bush victory to make me realize just how 'lucky' we are, but there it is.

We're lucky.

That's all I gotta say.

[Guest eureka]

Interesting,TN. I had confirmation of two who are coming. They had been contemplatin the move since visiting about a 18 mos. ago. This election has pushed them over the top.

[August1991]

This is the data I could easily find:

Between 1 July 2003 and 30 June 2004, 46708 people left Canada. Stat Can

In 2002, we accepted 5288 immigrants from the US. CIC Web Site

Between 1990-2000, on annual average, 24395 Canadian born people moved to the US.US Census

Roughly speaking, Canadians move to the US in much larger numbers than Americans coming here. This is not going to change because Bush Jnr got re-elected.

----

It is not an apochryphal story and I have known of it for many years. I don't know about that web site and I am not intrested in it. You don't like the web site so therefore it is apocryphal? I would suggest that you look at facts in order to get them straight. You are the first denier of that story that I have ever come across.

Eureka, you said that Johnson "attacked" Pearson by pulling his shirt collar. Pearson always wore a bow tie and it would have been impossible for anyone to pull his collar. Johnson was a physical kind of guy. I have no doubt he touched Pearson on the arm. Perhaps that is how the story got started.

Johnson did verbally upbraid Pearson and accused him of pissing on the carpet.

I think Kennedy referred to Diefenbaker as a "prick".

Nixon did refer to Trudeau as "that asshole". (Nixon was waiting for Trudeau to answer the phone.)

Bush Jnr has yet to invite a Canadian PM to Crawford.

And too many Canadians know all these factoids whereas very, very few Americans do.

The supreme irony in our relationship with the US is that some English Canadians are supremely twitchy about the US while Americans are supremely indifferent to Canada. Pierre Trudeau understood such English Canadians very well and he played to their twitchiness.

[Chloe]

Don't Canadians mooch off Americans, I personaly, see Canadians in a love hate relationship with America. Why? Cause we are addicted to they're media service, but we hate how indifferent they can be towards us. I see Canadians ready to visit the states more than they're ready to visit Halifax, or the Yukon. In my opinon Canadian need to cool off they're disgust of Americans and admit the truth, they need them whether they like it or not.

[caesar]

We don't mooch off American; they mooch off of us.

I certainly am not addicted to their biased media. Why would I want to be that dumb and brainwashed???

We, Canadians have a good international reputation and make the list well above Americans as the best country in which to live.