Welcome to the Wynne Legecy in Ontario

Ash74 · February 21, 2015

Welcome to Ontario.

An honorable people with good government. If you ignore the three criminal investigations currently going on.

I have to ask.

I understand why cursing Harper over the robocalls and trying to pay of Duffy. But how do they compare to the crimes that are going on in Ontario with the present government.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/02/20/kathleen-wynne-chides-opposition-for-hypocrisy-amid-bribery-allegations.html

So now she is trying to deflect away from the issue that people on her staff a hell of alot closer to her than Micheal Sona is too Harper.

They have a recording with a bribe being offered and in true Liberal fashion where it is never the fault of the present government.

Keepitsimple · February 21, 2015

The Star posed this question in Saturday's edition:

All of which raises the question: why did Wynne risk so much to win a largely meaningless Feb. 5 byelection that would have no impact on the balance of power in a majority legislature?

Here's a very likely scenario: that Trudeau's backroom brains knew that Thibeault was vulnerable and through back-channel negotiations, orchestrated the entire defection from the Federal NDP to Wynne's Liberals - with Wynne's private blessing of course. This was a perfect way to fire a bullet at the federal NDP in an attempt to sew discord and bleed away more support to the Liberals. After all, these big-brains were the same bunch that thought Eve Adams was a great catch. Dirty tricks tend to catch up with people.

Proof? None that I know of - yet. But go back to the Star's question - why?. Wynne and Trudeau......think about it.

Link:http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/02/20/kathleen-wynne-gambled-a-lot-of-political-capital-to-win-byelection.html

Edited February 21, 2015 by Keepitsimple

Bob Macadoo · February 21, 2015

Welcome to Ontario.

An honorable people with good government. If you ignore the three criminal investigations currently going on.

I have to ask.

I understand why cursing Harper over the robocalls and trying to pay of Duffy. But how do they compare to the crimes that are going on in Ontario with the present government.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/02/20/kathleen-wynne-chides-opposition-for-hypocrisy-amid-bribery-allegations.html

So now she is trying to deflect away from the issue that people on her staff a hell of alot closer to her than Micheal Sona is too Harper.

They have a recording with a bribe being offered and in true Liberal fashion where it is never the fault of the present government.

You really think this equates to Robocalls?

I hate patronage but that is politics apparently....so says Horvath. The guy had no standing to be the candidate.....they asked him to step aside. If he had been nominated and could only be replaced if he stepped down......that's different. I always questioned the Witmer job.....that really stank......this is just sour grapes by a loser ex-candidate being exploited by opposition. Let's see the charges and go from there.

John · February 21, 2015

It makes me crazy when I see people defending Wynne by offering up robocalls and Duffy.

But what they're really saying is that while Harper is trash...Wynne is no better.

And it's only too true. She's acting, at best, on par.

If she was a true leader she would do better than Harper. But she's not...

Bob Macadoo · February 21, 2015

It makes me crazy when I see people defending Wynne by offering up robocalls and Duffy.

But what they're really saying is that while Harper is trash...Wynne is no better.

And it's only too true. She's acting, at best, on par.

If she was a true leader she would do better than Harper. But she's not...

There is nothing to defend Wynne from in Sudbury....its politics. The Witmer patronage is different and IMO required investigation. I wonder why it wasn't though or at least demanded by the opposition. Might be Witmer had a basket of Hudak's dirty laundry.......like I said politics.......told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

AngusThermopyle · February 21, 2015

There is nothing to defend Wynne from in Sudbury....its politics. The Witmer patronage is different and IMO required investigation. I wonder why it wasn't though or at least demanded by the opposition. Might be Witmer had a basket of Hudak's dirty laundry.......like I said politics.......told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

Really! Perhaps you should tell that to Chief Electoral Officer Greg Essensa, that way he wont waste any more of his time. He believes that the Libs have indeed broken the law. Your constant defence and deflection when it comes to these crooks is astounding. Or do you honestly believe Wynne had nothing to do with this? If that's the case I have a whole slew of bridges and swamp land to sell, interested?

Bob Macadoo · February 21, 2015

Really! Perhaps you should tell that to Chief Electoral Officer Greg Essensa, that way he wont waste any more of his time. He believes that the Libs have indeed broken the law. Your constant defence and deflection when it comes to these crooks is astounding. Or do you honestly believe Wynne had nothing to do with this? If that's the case I have a whole slew of bridges and swamp land to sell, interested?

Your definition of constant is a bit different than mine. You want to call Wynne out for: giving Liz Sandals plumb assignments, deflecting the gas plant/watergate fiasco, lying about how Cap'n Pedo-Porn wasn't involved with sex curriculum, etc. I'm with you. This however; telling a whiner we'll patronage you since we took away your chance at an MPP salary......since there was no additional benefit to the OLP for doing this......its gross old cronyism.....not bribery. You want to hate on for cronyism....get me a placard too.

What I find dumb as Ash alluded to.....she has a majority.....why keep coming out like a weak, knobby kneed neophyte. There isn't an election for awhile.......own all this and be clear.

Ash74 · February 22, 2015

Your definition of constant is a bit different than mine. You want to call Wynne out for: giving Liz Sandals plumb assignments, deflecting the gas plant/watergate fiasco, lying about how Cap'n Pedo-Porn wasn't involved with sex curriculum, etc. I'm with you. This however; telling a whiner we'll patronage you since we took away your chance at an MPP salary......since there was no additional benefit to the OLP for doing this......its gross old cronyism.....not bribery. You want to hate on for cronyism....get me a placard too.

What I find dumb as Ash alluded to.....she has a majority.....why keep coming out like a weak, knobby kneed neophyte. There isn't an election for awhile.......own all this and be clear.

I don't believe it was cronyism. I think Wynne wanted the perception that all was well in the party with the change in candidates. It was a steal for the Liberals to take an NDP federal seat.

The robocall scandal was criminal and the guilty party was given 9 months for election fraud. The same guilty party was not close to the Prime Ministers office. Here we have the deputy chief of staff on the phone offering jobs at the behest of the Premier of Ontario.

How many people here have called for Harper to step down because of the 90 grand to cover up an expense account. Wright resigned for cutting the check.

Was it a bribe is the question.

I think it was just to make it all go away but that is a matte of opinion.

This was a bribe in Ontario. It was to stop a ton of bad PR for the new candidate.

My own opinion I think she is going to be in serious trouble for this one. The deflection that is being tossed right now seems pretty desperate.

John · February 22, 2015

Let's say charges are laid...does the LG have the power to disband the gov't and call an election?

Ash74 · February 22, 2015

Let's say charges are laid...does the LG have the power to disband the gov't and call an election?

Will not happen.

Worse case (or best case from my point of view) Wynne resigns and that makes two in a row that resign in disgrace

Bob Macadoo · February 22, 2015

Will not happen.

Worse case (or best case from my point of view) Wynne resigns and that makes two in a row that resign in disgrace

Worst case: Sobrara resigns for perception reasons only. The question becomes does this pull the blanket off of appointments in this province airing everyone's dirt......the light cleanses everyone.

Ash74 · February 22, 2015

Worst case: Sobrara resigns for perception reasons only. The question becomes does this pull the blanket off of appointments in this province airing everyone's dirt......the light cleanses everyone.

Oh yeah I agree they all look for easier and better safer jobs. All parties play their games.

I am sure they they all use jobs to pull games like Wynne got caught doing. Most likely keep it a lot more distant from the throne than Wynne did

But she got caught dead to rights. Sobrara is toast and rightfully so. But this might splatter all over the door of the Premiers office.

Bob Macadoo · February 22, 2015

Oh yeah I agree they all look for easier and better safer jobs. All parties play their games.

I am sure they they all use jobs to pull games like Wynne got caught doing. Most likely keep it a lot more distant from the throne than Wynne did

But she got caught dead to rights. Sobrara is toast and rightfully so. But this might splatter all over the door of the Premiers office.

Like I said.....it would be funny if Wynne goes Kamikaze on this and starts rattling off all dirty appointments.

Ash74 · February 22, 2015

Like I said.....it would be funny if Wynne goes Kamikaze on this and starts rattling off all dirty appointments.

That is like two days in a row we agree on something. Call Guinness. lol

I don't care which party gets caught. Bust them all. Maybe some good will come out of it for awhile

Big Guy · February 22, 2015

One aspect of a democracy is that our educated society relinquishes some of our decision making to individuals who win elections. I did not vote Liberal in the last election but Kathleen Wynne is my new Premier who won the election by our rules.

Next election, I may or may not vote Liberal but will accept the results - that is the nature of our government.

Kathleen is going to be Premier for at least another three years. I wish her well and will do anything to help and make Ontario a wonderful place to live.

Ash74 · February 22, 2015

One aspect of a democracy is that our educated society relinquishes some of our decision making to individuals who win elections. I did not vote Liberal in the last election but Kathleen Wynne is my new Premier who won the election by our rules.

Next election, I may or may not vote Liberal but will accept the results - that is the nature of our government.

Kathleen is going to be Premier for at least another three years. I wish her well and will do anything to help and make Ontario a wonderful place to live.

So why are you on a forum that questions political leaders?

If you think voting for the next monarch every election is the right thing to do than why are you debating with other people?

Whats the point?

The views we all express here are our rights and I feel our duty in a democracy to become informed. I will not just bend over for any party that is elected cause they say so. Not this guy. We have to keep the governments as honest as we can. Look how corrupt they are now.

Can you imagine if we all just turned the other cheek till election time?

I am not just talking Wynne and the Ontario Liberals. Harper is ramming this anti terror bill down the throat with no over sight to speak of. The NDP just got busted for misuse of expenses.

All Government in a democracy must be held accountable.

WIP · February 22, 2015

Welcome to Ontario.

An honorable people with good government.

Most Ontarians have low expectations from government, so we are rarely disappointed.

What we don't want is radical, ideologically-driven government. Bob Rae discovered this, and abandoned many of his campaign promises as NDP Premier, like nationalizing auto insurance. And when Mike Harris started enacting a radical libertarian economic vision, he was quick to tell the Tory ministers in the social issues clown car, to shut up if they wanted to stay in the Government.

The reason why we re-elected Kathleen Wynne is because the NDP leader was in say-anything/promise-anything mode and no one knew where she stood on any important issue, while we sure knew as hell where Tim Hudak stood! And hell will freeze over before this dominionist right wing crackpot becomes premier!

So, for Ontario voters, it was once again choosing the lesser of three evils....and that's why we still have Kathleen Wynne!

Big Guy · February 22, 2015

To Ash24 - I like to discuss issues and not necessarily people. The only time my opinion means anything is during campaigns before elections when I do publish my views under my real name. I have also commissioned an interactive web page which I will be supervising dealing mostly with local issues. Politics is an interest for me especially since I now have a lot of free time.

For me, democracy is a sacred institution into which we have evolved, fought to maintain and must respect. For me, politicians are generally nice people who are well educated, mean well and do their best to do what is expected of them. I have known many from different parties and in federal, provincial and municipal positions and have not changed my attitude towards them. They do have a tendency to lose empathy for the "common man" but that comes with the power in Ottawa and Queens Park.

I do not believe that when a scandal surfaces that it is caused by malice or for financial gain but because of mistakes. Democratic government is a very complicated coming together of people who are doing many things for the first time in their lives - they make mistakes or things "fall between the cracks". Very few scandals are created by malcontents with criminal intent but mostly by zealots doing what they think is right to promote their vision of the way our society should be organized. That is why very few are actually prosecuted and convicted of any crimes.

Like yourself, I also question some of the decisions made by our elected politicians but do not demonize them or those who support them. The only time I have any real influence is when I place my vote during an election.

I also doubt that anyone on these opinion boards has ever changed their support of a particular party due to the posted ranting of the cheerleaders of the different parties.

Ash74 · February 22, 2015

Most Ontarians have low expectations from government, so we are rarely disappointed.

What we don't want is radical, ideologically-driven government. Bob Rae discovered this, and abandoned many of his campaign promises as NDP Premier, like nationalizing auto insurance. And when Mike Harris started enacting a radical libertarian economic vision, he was quick to tell the Tory ministers in the social issues clown car, to shut up if they wanted to stay in the Government.

The reason why we re-elected Kathleen Wynne is because the NDP leader was in say-anything/promise-anything mode and no one knew where she stood on any important issue, while we sure knew as hell where Tim Hudak stood! And hell will freeze over before this dominionist right wing crackpot becomes premier!

So, for Ontario voters, it was once again choosing the lesser of three evils....and that's why we still have Kathleen Wynne!

Ah yes but we are seeing where Wynne stands now.

The million job plan was a joke as funny as the job creation numbers as the HST or Green energy act but a joke never the less.

Personally I wanted a P.C. minority with the Liberals and NDP forming a collation or a Liberal minority again so that Hudak was ousted and hopefully a better candidate would emerge.

Instead we are stuck with this. Yes I guess a lesser of the three evils but I wonder what evil will have to emerge to get us out the this debt. At what cost will we pay when cuts are made that will be coming.

So far we are seeing Wynne with two criminal investigations going on both not on her watch but they are there. Now a third that leads directly to her office. Least this one didn't cost us over a billion like the last election buy did.

PIK · February 23, 2015

Let give credit where credit is due and thank the unions for a bigger mess. And now we have wynnes gay agenda about to push down kids throats , while her sex ed partner Levin is facing serious child porno charges.

Edited February 23, 2015 by PIK

WIP · February 23, 2015

Ah yes but we are seeing where Wynne stands now.

The million job plan was a joke as funny as the job creation numbers as the HST or Green energy act but a joke never the less.

Personally I wanted a P.C. minority with the Liberals and NDP forming a collation or a Liberal minority again so that Hudak was ousted and hopefully a better candidate would emerge.

Instead we are stuck with this. Yes I guess a lesser of the three evils but I wonder what evil will have to emerge to get us out the this debt. At what cost will we pay when cuts are made that will be coming.

So far we are seeing Wynne with two criminal investigations going on both not on her watch but they are there. Now a third that leads directly to her office. Least this one didn't cost us over a billion like the last election buy did.

In general, Ontario voters don't like keeping a government in power too long, and the opposition has to fail badly to make third terms possible...which is why I'm surprised that the Tories gave Hudak a second chance. This isn't Texas, and he was carrying too much baggage to cast himself as anything other than an extreme right winger.

The other general trend in Ontario politics, is that Ontario often uses Queens Park as a hedge against the Federal Government in Ottawa....sort of like what Americans used to often do before their election system turned into a total farce controlled by a few wealthy interests. Historically, the U.S. avoided having the same party controlling the White House and both branches of Congress.

The other thing that strikes me here, is that if your main complaint is about the corrupting influence of majority governments that remain in power for long periods of time (something I agree with), how do you feel about proportional representative government? The former McGuinty Government had no intentions of allowing an informed public the opportunity to make the choice freely (all three major parties cooperated in the disinformation campaign), but every time we have a Harper or a Wynne or....choose the premier...who has a majority government, we are reminded once again that a leader with a parliamentary majority is a potential dictator under our system of government until they have to call the next election!

I don't know what Wynne's percentage of the vote was, but there's Harper sitting in Ottawa, after already making major structural changes to our Government, and he's doing it with only 38% of the votes cast in the last Federal Election! If you want more democracy, support PV, otherwise you're just mad that the dictator on your side didn't win!

Ash74 · February 23, 2015

In general, Ontario voters don't like keeping a government in power too long, and the opposition has to fail badly to make third terms possible...which is why I'm surprised that the Tories gave Hudak a second chance. This isn't Texas, and he was carrying too much baggage to cast himself as anything other than an extreme right winger.

The other general trend in Ontario politics, is that Ontario often uses Queens Park as a hedge against the Federal Government in Ottawa....sort of like what Americans used to often do before their election system turned into a total farce controlled by a few wealthy interests. Historically, the U.S. avoided having the same party controlling the White House and both branches of Congress.

The other thing that strikes me here, is that if your main complaint is about the corrupting influence of majority governments that remain in power for long periods of time (something I agree with), how do you feel about proportional representative government? The former McGuinty Government had no intentions of allowing an informed public the opportunity to make the choice freely (all three major parties cooperated in the disinformation campaign), but every time we have a Harper or a Wynne or....choose the premier...who has a majority government, we are reminded once again that a leader with a parliamentary majority is a potential dictator under our system of government until they have to call the next election!

I don't know what Wynne's percentage of the vote was, but there's Harper sitting in Ottawa, after already making major structural changes to our Government, and he's doing it with only 38% of the votes cast in the last Federal Election! If you want more democracy, support PV, otherwise you're just mad that the dictator on your side didn't win!

Wynne's popular vote was about the same.

She won fair and square. I never disagreed with that.I do not agree with her politics or the way her and Dalton ran it before her.

I think the Ontario Liberals have improved health care. I can only imagine the number of screw ups that were swept under the rug but I have seen a vast improvement.

But every year we get hit with another sign of incompetence, bribing or scandal that just makes me shake my head and wonder what will be the next punch in the throat

Bob Macadoo · February 24, 2015

Wynne's popular vote was about the same.

She won fair and square. I never disagreed with that.I do not agree with her politics or the way her and Dalton ran it before her.

I think the Ontario Liberals have improved health care. I can only imagine the number of screw ups that were swept under the rug but I have seen a vast improvement.

But every year we get hit with another sign of incompetence, bribing or scandal that just makes me shake my head and wonder what will be the next punch in the throat

I guess gov't is just like baseball we'll pay 10+ million for >.300 batting average then fire the GM and expect different performance.

Ash74 · February 24, 2015

I guess gov't is just like baseball we'll pay 10+ million for >.300 batting average then fire the GM and expect different performance.

I prefer the one."Like walking into a sex shop. You gotta figure out which dildo will hurt the least"

Hey do you think they will cover that in the new sex ed curriculum? lol

Edited February 24, 2015 by Ash74

CommunityOrganizer · February 24, 2015

Not until at least grade 3. I wonder if they are using the draft sex education curriculum written during the time that admitted child pornographer Dr. Levin was deputy minister of education and Premier Two Moms Ms. Wynne was the minister of education.