ISThe fiddling with temperature data is the biggest science scandal ev

[Michael Hardner]

There is certainly "peer pressure" for the "peers" to conform to each other's views. Especially where funding is at stake. Society doesn't shovel billions or install a suffocating bureaucracy to solve a non-problem.

Funding is "at stake" only as far as scientists are funded for being good scientists. If people were indeed motivated by money over all things, then a scientist could make a name for him/herself (and get a load of funding) by posting evidence of the contrarian view.

[Keepitsimple]

And all that arctic ice that aint there no more. Can we find a way to pawn that off on a possibly faulty thermometer from a hundred years ago.

And if someone could prove to you that there was even less Arctic ice 100 years ago, would that at least give you pause for thought?

[eyeball]

That seems like a pretty big if.

[On Guard for Thee]

And if someone could prove to you that there was even less Arctic ice 100 years ago, would that at least give you pause for thought?

Yeah that is a pretty big if.

[Keepitsimple]

Yeah that is a pretty big if.

There are several references to Roald Amundsen navigating the Northwest Passage back in 1903 and our own St. Roch in the 1940's. Don't you think that should give you pause to think that maybe, just maybe - what's going on in the Arctic has happened before? Any pause at all?

The Northwest Passage is a sea through the Arctic Ocean, along the northern coast of North America via waterways through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, connecting the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.[1][2][3][4] The various islands of the archipelago are separated from one another and the Canadian mainland by a series of Arctic waterways collectively known as the Northwest Passages or Northwestern Passages.[5] The Parliament of Canada renamed these waterways the "Canadian Northwest Passage" in motion M-387 passed unanimously 2 December 2009.[6][7]

Sought by explorers for centuries as a possible trade route, it was first navigated by Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen with a small expedition of six men in 1903–1906. Until 2009, the Arctic pack ice prevented regular marine shipping throughout most of the year.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage

Here's a link to a newspaper article back in 1903 or thereabouts:

Link: https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/05/31/northwest-passage-was-open-in-1903/

But hey - if you choose not to believe that, how about something from the 1940's

THE ST. ROCH - A TRUE CANADIAN ADVENTURE.

Built in British Columbia, named after a parish in Quebec, captained by a Norwegian immigrant, crewed by farm boys from across the country, and helped by the Inuit, the St. Roch was the first vessel to sail the Northwest Passage from west to east (1940-1942), the first to complete the passage in one season (1944), and the first to circumnavigate North America.

One of the only ships in service in the Arctic in the early part of the 20th century, the St. Roch is made of an unusual design of thick Douglas Fir planks reinforced with heavy beams to withstand the ice pressure and an outer shell made of some of the hardest wood in the world, Australian Eucalyptus 'iron bark'.

about the St. Roch wooden ship that did it in the 1940's:

Visit the Vancouver Maritime Museam

Link: http://vancouvermaritimemuseum.com/permanent-exhibit/st-roch-national-historic-site

Edited February 21, 2015 by Keepitsimple

[eyeball]

Why on Earth didn't the St Roch just set a straight line course from the Bering Straight to the North Sea?

[Keepitsimple]

Yeah that is a pretty big if.

Haven't heard back from you. Any second thoughts that perhaps todays Arctic ice "retreat" has happened before?

[On Guard for Thee]

Haven't heard back from you. Any second thoughts that perhaps todays Arctic ice "retreat" has happened before?

Im sure it did, in the Jurassic.

[Keepitsimple]

Im sure it did, in the Jurassic.

I thought so. Contrary information doesn't seem to have any effect on you. Did you even read the articles - any comments of substance? This is exactly the close-minded attitude that is turning off more and more people to the shrill cries of the alarmists.

[On Guard for Thee]

I thought so. Contrary information doesn't seem to have any effect on you. Did you even read the articles - any comments of substance? This is exactly the close-minded attitude that is turning off more and more people to the shrill cries of the alarmists.

One of your own posts states not until 2009 was there ever any serious consideration of using the NW passage as a serious shipping lane.

[Keepitsimple]

One of your own posts states not until 2009 was there ever any serious consideration of using the NW passage as a serious shipping lane.

.....and when it ices up again - as it did after the early 1900's and the early 1940's - that consideration will start to diminish. But I grant you this - the world has been warming since the early 1800's - warming, cooling, warming, cooling - but always saw-toothing it's way upward. We're in a lull or slight cooling now but it will start to warm again in 10 or 15 years - history says so.......so I don't doubt that one day, we'll be sailing through the NW Passage.

[jbg]

Funding is "at stake" only as far as scientists are funded for being good scientists. If people were indeed motivated by money over all things, then a scientist could make a name for him/herself (and get a load of funding) by posting evidence of the contrarian view.

Possible but unlikely.

The instinct among scientists faced with a contrary view is to deride them, viciously and publicly. Imagine the reaction if I came out with a study that says that gays are intellectually inferior to straight people. Imagine the reaction among the scientific community.

[jbg]

One of your own posts states not until 2009 was there ever any serious consideration of using the NW passage as a serious shipping lane.

.....and when it ices up again - as it did after the early 1900's and the early 1940's - that consideration will start to diminish. But I grant you this - the world has been warming since the early 1800's - warming, cooling, warming, cooling - but always saw-toothing it's way upward. We're in a lull or slight cooling now but it will start to warm again in 10 or 15 years - history says so.......so I don't doubt that one day, we'll be sailing through the NW Passage.

What were Franklin and Hudson doing then? Looking for tropical beaches?

[Michael Hardner]

The instinct among scientists faced with a contrary view is to deride them, viciously and publicly. Imagine the reaction if I came out with a study that says that gays are intellectually inferior to straight people. Imagine the reaction among the scientific community.

That's not analogous at all. And why would scientists decide to 'deride' them rather than deal with the situation professionally. It's just another made-up conspiracy theory.

[On Guard for Thee]

.....and when it ices up again - as it did after the early 1900's and the early 1940's - that consideration will start to diminish. But I grant you this - the world has been warming since the early 1800's - warming, cooling, warming, cooling - but always saw-toothing it's way upward. We're in a lull or slight cooling now but it will start to warm again in 10 or 15 years - history says so.......so I don't doubt that one day, we'll be sailing through the NW Passage.

Thats exactly how most of the serious science studies describe what is happening, Global temps are (sawtoothing their way up) and a lot also say there has been no pause and no end in sight unless we get emissions reduced. Chrystal Cruises plans to start using the NW passage next August so book early.