Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I disagree. Governments should stay away from garment restrictions. If we go down this path then I can see a future PM Tony Clement or someone of his ilk mandating miniskirts. Women should decide how they want to present themselves. Governments should stay away from all kinds of personal choices, offensive or not. I don't see how them doing so in this case has any bearing on how women decide how to present themselves. Quote
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I understand that to you, the Niqab is a powerful symbolism for the oppression of women. For many women, the Niqab is a powerful symbolism for the symbol of women's rights. Just curious. Which do you think represents the majority of women who walk around breathing their own CO2 all day? Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Governments should stay away from all kinds of personal choices, offensive or not Should governments avoid those who have made a choice they want to be a terrorist to blow up our nation? Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Should governments avoid those who have made a choice they want to be a terrorist to blow up our nation? I'm surprised by the question. Do you not know the difference between offensive and criminal? Edited October 4, 2015 by bcsapper Quote
Argus Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 And I'd be happy if people would stop thinking disenfranchising people in a liberal democracy was in the tiniest degree supportable. We are guaranteed a universal franchise regardless of income level or religious affiliation, full stop. The principle that those who are affected by an assembly's legislation should have a voice in that legislature is the cornerstone of modern democracy. So is "No taxation without representation" so why should there be representation without taxation? As in the stats I have just posted on another thread, the lower 50% of the Canadian population pay just 4% of taxes, even though they have the same rights and privileges as everyone else. This is not a situation imagined by those who founded Canada. And it leads to a situation where an irresponsible politician can promise people lavish governmental benefits without those people caring a fig about what the cost is since they bear none of that cost. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I understand that to you, the Niqab is a powerful symbolism for the oppression of women. For many women, the Niqab is a powerful symbolism for the symbol of women's rights. Many women? For a few fanatics and extremists, maybe, and even to them it likely doesn't represent women's rights but their public proclamation of their rejection of Canadian society and it's values. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ToadBrother Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Many women? For a few fanatics and extremists, maybe, and even to them it likely doesn't represent women's rights but their public proclamation of their rejection of Canadian society and it's values. There was a time when people said the same thing about Catholics. Quote
Argus Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I have a wonderful idea for them. Create the baseline where it is to-day - everybody qualified gets one vote - BUT - since those making the dough "should" have a greater say then assign additional votes according to income in $100,000 increments.. Why $100,000 increments? And why based on what you make? It should be based on what taxes you pay. So in other words, you have Ed, who pays $6 every year in income taxes, and then you have Joe, who pays $60,000 every year in taxes. Joe pays a thousand times more in taxes than Ed, so if Ed gets a vote, Joe should get a thousand votes. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 There was a time when people said the same thing about Catholics. Cite? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ToadBrother Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Cite? Ever heard of the Test Act? Heck, until two or three years ago, we couldn't even have a Catholic Monarch. And don't tell me you're not familiar with the Orange Order of Canada? Quote
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Ever heard of the Test Act? Heck, until two or three years ago, we couldn't even have a Catholic Monarch. It's one of the reasons I left the UK. Because I could never be King. Quote
Evening Star Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 It's possible for us to have a Catholic monarch now?? Quote
Big Guy Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Just curious. Which do you think represents the majority of women who walk around breathing their own CO2 all day? I really do not know. To the best of my knowledge no one has taken a survey. I would assume that they do so because it makes them feel better than walking around with their face uncovered. It may be for religious reasons, it may be through fear of what would happen if she showed her face or it could be because she has a bad case of acne. I know of one teenager just to pi$$ her parents off and to stand out in their group. I knew a lady who wore extra large sun glasses everywhere. Found out later it was to cover those black eyes that her abusive husband would create just to keep her in her place. It would be interesting if someone took an impartial survey and actually asked them. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Big Guy Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 Did a little research. The only thing I could find for Canada was at: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/03/13/muslim-women-in-canada-explain-why-they-wear-a-niqab.html "But since the sample size was small, and no firm numbers exist on the total number of women who wear a niqab in Canada, the results “should be understood to be tentative indications only,” the report said. Most women surveyed online said they wore a niqab out of religious obligation or as an expression of their Muslim identity. Other answers included encouragement from their spouse or friends, setting an example for their children, comfort, and religious pilgrimage.None of the women said they were forced to wear the niqab, or were encouraged by a family member — excluding spouses." If some has any other additional impartial research then please share it here - I would like to see it. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I really do not know. To the best of my knowledge no one has taken a survey. I would assume that they do so because it makes them feel better than walking around with their face uncovered. It may be for religious reasons, it may be through fear of what would happen if she showed her face or it could be because she has a bad case of acne. I know of one teenager just to pi$$ her parents off and to stand out in their group. I knew a lady who wore extra large sun glasses everywhere. Found out later it was to cover those black eyes that her abusive husband would create just to keep her in her place. It would be interesting if someone took an impartial survey and actually asked them. It would. But how would one know they were telling the truth? Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) It would. But how would one know they were telling the truth? How does any survey know if someone is lying? Make the results anonymous and have a large enough sample size. Edited October 4, 2015 by angrypenguin Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Big Guy Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 It would. But how would one know they were telling the truth?I see. It would be difficult to read a "tell". Great idea - I am gonna wear one at our weekly poker game and verify the results. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) I see. It would be difficult to read a "tell". Great idea - I am gonna wear one at our weekly poker game and verify the results. Poker's all in the eyes anyway, right? Edited October 4, 2015 by bcsapper Quote
Guest Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 How does any survey know if someone is lying? Make the results anonymous and have a large enough sample size. You already have that in real life... Quote
Machjo Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 No the PC party's big mistake (provincially) was sticking it to the federal party's PC support. Also, their other mistake? They were too honest when it came to cutting public sector jobs. Hudak was a moron. Now you're confusing elections. It was three Ontario provincial elections ago if I remember correctly. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
cybercoma Posted October 5, 2015 Author Report Posted October 5, 2015 "The whole niqab issue is not an issue for us," Ashraf said. Instead, she'd like candidates to focus on how Muslim dress affects their ability to move forward in society."If you are wearing a scarf, or, for instance, the niqab, you're not going to get a job. Your credentials don't count. [Employers] think that if you have a scarf, you don't have a brain."Ashraf states firmly that Muslim women have the right to choose how they dress, just as any other Canadian."[Muslim women] feel like they're being demonized," Nawaz said. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/muslim-women-sound-off-on-stupid-niqab-debate-1.3256417 Quote
The_Squid Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/muslim-women-sound-off-on-stupid-niqab-debate-1.3256417 If you are wearing a niqab (assuming that's the entire covering where you can only see the eyes), you will not get a job in Canada for the most part. I wouldn't hire someone who came into my office for an interview like that. The head scarf? I don't see the issue with that at all. But that's not what we're talking about. You can see someone's face if they're simply wearing a scarf. Christ, my momma wears a head scarf! But most niqab-wearing women aren't likely to be allowed to be applying for jobs in the first place because of their husbands/families fundemntalism... And In countries where it's required to wear one, you likely couldn't get a job either, but that's because you are a woman. But that's a different topic... Quote
cybercoma Posted October 5, 2015 Author Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) But most niqab-wearing women aren't likely to be allowed to be applying for jobs in the first place because of their husbands/families fundemntalism... Except the study they did a couple years ago indicated that most niqabi women wore it against their families' wishes here in Canada. So what makes you think they "wouldn't be allowed" to apply for a job? Edited October 5, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Except the study they did a couple years ago indicated that most niqabi women wore it against their families' wishes here in Canada. So what makes you think they "wouldn't be allowed" to apply for a job? Somebody ought to ban freedom of choice! It's just so un-Canadian! Quote
Big Guy Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 If you are wearing a niqab (assuming that's the entire covering where you can only see the eyes), you will not get a job in Canada for the most part. I wouldn't hire someone who came into my office for an interview like that. The head scarf? I don't see the issue with that at all. But that's not what we're talking about. You can see someone's face if they're simply wearing a scarf. Christ, my momma wears a head scarf! But most niqab-wearing women aren't likely to be allowed to be applying for jobs in the first place because of their husbands/families fundemntalism... And In countries where it's required to wear one, you likely couldn't get a job either, but that's because you are a woman. But that's a different topic... I agree. What you wear at a job interview is a message that you are sending to the hiring committee. In any job where the position involves dealing directly with the public I can see not hiring someone who is not representing your organization. People with purple hair and/or body piercings generally are not hired by organization wanting a conservative atmosphere in their reception areas. The problem I can see is what happens when the nicely dressed, shirt and tie clean looking young male employee shows up after the probationary period in leathers, a blue Mohawk and his mothers broach pinned through his nose? Or the polite, petite business dressed young lady decides after her probation period that a niqab better represents her values in life? That is going to happen. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
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