Who pays taxes?

[August1991]

Left or Right, the real "voter turn out" is not an X on a ballot but tax compliance. Who pays taxes honestly?

In which country, continent, are ordinary people inclined to pay taxes and implicitly vote?

Certainly not Europeans. They are past-masters at fraud. (Swiss banks, Channel Islands, etc.) Japanese?(Gimme a break - an extremely precise system - with holes) Africa and Asia essentially have no consistent tax system. Americans? The IRS, hunh. How about Canadians.

What does it mean to pay taxes honestly because one wants to?

Canadians (born here, immigrants, citizens, 1000-holders, residents, illegals, French, English, others, Group W bench) prefer, by and large, to pay taxes rather than cheat. IOW, why do people accept to pay taxes in Canada?

Well, people vote honestly when they pay taxes, not when they put an X on a small piece of paper. This should be the measure of democracy. In this, Canadians are true democrats.

[Bakunin]

Not evryone pay taxes, just look at our PM.....

[caesar]

let's face it; Canadians are no more sainted than any other country's citizens. We have a robust underground economy. We just cheat a little so that Revenue Canada doesn't get suspicious.

[playfullfellow]

I agree with caesar here, there is a pretty good underground economy all over Canada. It seems almost anyone who has a trade is willing to work for cash or trade at a much lower level than if it is an invoiced job. It has become widespread enough that Revenue Canada recently sent a delegation to host a public meeting here to discuss and discourage the problem with local tradesmen, it was not a very well attended meeting as far as I know. Working "under the table" is a direct tax revolt by these people, a sign that people really feel they do not get a good return on their tax investment.

[Cartman]

Working "under the table" is a direct tax revolt by these people, a sign that people really feel they do not get a good return on their tax investment.

EXACTLY. Either eliminate the program or make it valuable. Do it right or not at all.

[August1991]

Working "under the table" is a direct tax revolt by these people, a sign that people really feel they do not get a good return on their tax investment.

That was my original point. I was arguing that people vote more honestly when they agree to pay taxes than when they vote in an election (if they do that at all).

And of course, I don't dispute that people evade taxes in Canada.

The last time I checked on this (I'll find sources if required), under the table employment was primarily in construction and domestic services. The construction was to hire non-union workers (so tax evasion was not the main motivator) and domestic services was to evade paper work, and in effect pay less than minimum wage.

Canada is striking because of tax compliance. In Italy, large factories "don't exist". Many, many Europeans have tax-exempt savings accounts abroad. In the US, tax collection only works because the IRS operates like the Gestapo. And I won't even discuss what goes on in Eastern Europe, Asia and South America.

Heck, tax compliance may be higher in Canada than in Scandinavia.

[playfullfellow]

In this area construction workers are a major source of "under the table" work being done. Back yard mechanics, handymen and cleaning crews are a major part of this under ground economy.

[brianw]

Working "under the table" is a direct tax revolt by these people, a sign that people really feel they do not get a good return on their tax investment.

If someone refuses to pay a workers tax (income tax) should the government have the power to refuse to allow them to work?

Wasn't there, originaly, a clause in the income tax act that stated compliance was voluntary because it violated people's right to work? Hasn't that been removed recently?

Also, if someone refuses to (or their circimstances change so they can't) pay property tax should their property be taken and the prople thrown into the street? What if it is a family, does that make a difference?

[brianw]

Where are all the "High Tax" advocates to answer these questions?

Here is another question:

Who do high taxes hurt the most High income or low income people?

[caesar]

If someone refuses to pay a workers tax (income tax) should the government have the power to refuse to allow them to work?

No, they can throw them in jail for income tax invasion.

As for someone unable to pay property tax; they can sell the home, pay what they owe and rent. Nobody gets a free ride. I think if there is a tempory problem; the government can delay tax collection.

[brianw]

No, they can throw them in jail for income tax invasion

Throw someone in jail for not paying a third party to be allowed to work. Novel concept. You want people in jail for refusing to pay to be allowed to do something they have a right to do. Are you suggesting criminals should be set free?

As for someone unable to pay property tax; they can sell the home, pay what they owe and rent.

Another interesting concept. We have organizations trying to get people off the street (salvation army, habitat for humanity, OCAP, etc...) and you want to see more people thrown into the street.

How does someone actually OWE taxes simply for owning property. And just exactly how is someone who owns property getting a free ride. You want them thrown into the street so that you can have subsidized services. Who is the one who wants a free ride?

You are something else.

[maplesyrup]

If someone does NOT pay their taxes, there should be fines based proportionally on your income and/or your net worth.

We have to get out of this throw people in jail mentality unless there is violence involved and the criminal is a danger to others in society.

It's only money folks!

[playfullfellow]

It's only money folks!

Yeah but it is money that I spend a lot of time and sweat earning. The key word here is earned. Why should I work 50-60 hours every week so someone else can sit on their duff and do nothing? The more taxes I pay, the less I have to spend on my family. If the money I pay in taxes actually went to do something decent instead of paying for wasteful crap in government, then this would be a non-issue but as things stand, there is too much waste in government.