An Example Of People Who Lack Public Education Knowledge

[socialist]

Dude. Seriously? You're a teacher? I even posted it from a union loving paper, because I can just imagine the bs if I posted anything on here from a Sun newspaper.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/2012/12/03/ontario_teacher_protest_extracurriculars_in_high_schools_to_go_union_says.htmlhttp:

//www.timescolonist.com/news/local/union-tells-teachers-to-stop-volunteering-cites-liability-concerns-1.1076148

K, I lied. Here's a link from Sun about my "understanding is grossly incorrect". Is "grossly incorrect" even proper English? I don't know...you tell me, you're the "teacher".

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/03/20130305-084247.html

And because you get a Sun link, I thought a Globe link would round it all out. Most viewpoints covered.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/ontario-students-might-have-to-forgo-extracurriculars-for-two-years/article6186956/

Can you find some more recent articles?

The amateurs on this site amaze me.

[Keepitsimple]

Wasting your time man. He ignores the postings that prove him wrong.

Socialist is not a teacher......not educated enough. Chances are good he's a teenager blogging in Mom's basement. Doesn't sound like he'd have the discipline to get his diploma once (if) he gets out of high school.

[Archanfel]

Who cares? Why should the government decide what's good and what's not? Schools should implement their own curriculum. You want to teach the earth is flat? Your choice. And if they are not good, parents just wouldn't send their kids to that school.

[Michael Hardner]

And if they are not good, parents just wouldn't send their kids to that school.

Parents *would* send their kids to a school that teaches science is wrong, vaccines are bad for you, other religions are adhered to by people less worthy than ourselves.

That's the problem with negating the idea of a public good.

[Archanfel]

Parents *would* send their kids to a school that teaches science is wrong, vaccines are bad for you, other religions are adhered to by people less worthy than ourselves.

That's the problem with negating the idea of a public good.

Then either they were right or their offspring would have less chance of surviving, thus eliminate the gene/culture associated with such behaviour. The problem with public good is that there's no clear and static definition of "good". Science and society change everyday, so is the definition of "good".

[Michael Hardner]

Then either they were right or their offspring would have less chance of surviving, thus eliminate the gene/culture associated with such behaviour. The problem with public good is that there's no clear and static definition of "good". Science and society change everyday, so is the definition of "good".

I see what you're saying. It's a Libertarian bent and there's a philosophical purity and simplicity to it. In practicality, though, it doesn't lead to the best system IMO. We decided what "good" is.

[Archanfel]

I see what you're saying. It's a Libertarian bent and there's a philosophical purity and simplicity to it. In practicality, though, it doesn't lead to the best system IMO. We decided what "good" is.

The goal is not to lead to the best system since there's no such thing, but to have a system that would adapt and survive. One example would be the dinosaurs. Some of them were at the top of the evolution chain with perfect specialization for the environment. Yet when the environment suddenly changed, they faded away whereas more adaptive species survived.

Democracy was never supposed to be the best system either. It can never compete with a wise dictatorship. However, it was suppose to be adaptive through minimum limitation of personal liberty. Unfortunately, liberalism changed and democracy cares far more about political correctness than liberty.

Humans are not rational beings, we are very good at learning rather than thinking. We didn't decide what "good" is, we were told what "good" is. Otherwise, religions would never have taken off. How many people scientifically thought about why a particular policy is good or bad? Almost nobody. We were taught a moral code by our parents, our teacher, books, religious figures, pop stars, newspapers, scientists and politicians, and such code dictates our choices. Internet made this even worse as everybody "learns" rather than "thinks". And that's assuming our democracy is perfect rather than being hijacked by some special interests groups, which is a big IF.

[Michael Hardner]

Internet made this even worse as everybody "learns" rather than "thinks". And that's assuming our democracy is perfect rather than being hijacked by some special interests groups, which is a big IF.

Not perfect but better than the alternative. Managing input from the various publics that define our common good is difficult but the web will actually make it easier IMO. And the alternative seems to be said benevolent dictator which isn't going to happen.

[Archanfel]

Not perfect but better than the alternative. Managing input from the various publics that define our common good is difficult but the web will actually make it easier IMO. And the alternative seems to be said benevolent dictator which isn't going to happen.

The alternative was right here several decades ago and is still there in some societies, it's just hidden from us by political correctness. Whether the alternative is better is hard to say since what's better for one person might be worse for another. The very action of defining a greater good places society before individuals.

Worse yet, none of us are qualified to define what's better. Take education for example, how many people here has a PHD degree in education? How many of the opinions are based on cold scientific researches rather than emotions? However we have the power to define "better" because we got a vote, yet we don't suffer the consequences of such power individually.

[Michael Hardner]

Worse yet, none of us are qualified to define what's better.

We decide it as a group, and the qualification is that the group has authorized it.

Take education for example, how many people here has a PHD degree in education? How many of the opinions are based on cold scientific researches rather than emotions? However we have the power to define "better" because we got a vote, yet we don't suffer the consequences of such power individually.

If society isn't ready for a "better" change, then it can't happen. The US went to war over racial equality in the 18th century because they hadn't found "better" yet, and there was a disagreement.

[jacee]

My educators of the past spent their own time after school supporting various groups and activities. I understand your unions of today forbid such activities.

Who the hell told you that crap!!

Ridiculous.

.

[drummindiver]

drummindiver, on 31 Dec 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

My educators of the past spent their own time after school supporting various groups and activities. I understand your unions of today forbid such activities.

jacee

Senior Member

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Who the hell told you that crap!!
Ridiculous.

You spout vitriol with zero supporting cites while demanding them at every turn.

We know you can spell ridiculous...it's your go to phrase for everything you oppose. Again, without proof, or support.

So, let's show you what ridiculous is. You.

btw, I'll save you the time and tell Michael Hardner I asked if you were challenged.

Ridiculous!!!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/ontario-teachers-pledge-its-not-business-as-usual-on-extracurriculars/article4537777/

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/12/03/ottawa-public-elementary-students-miss-out-on-extracurricular-activities-as-teachers-escalate-work-to-rule-campaign

http://www.etfo.ca/AdviceForMembers/PRSMattersBulletins/Pages/Voluntary%20Extracurricular%20Activities.aspx

http://www.citynews.ca/2013/02/28/elementary-teachers-continue-boycott-of-extracurricular-activities/

http://www.essex.ontariopc.com/News/Details/Union-forbids-teachers-from-returning-to-extracurriculars-

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2012/10/12/students-fear-for-extracurricular-future

Edited February 9, 2015 by drummindiver

[jacee]

<p>

drummindiver, on 31 Dec 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

jacee

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Who the hell told you that crap!!

Ridiculous.

Jacee, are you totally stupid or mildly handicapped? Or both?

Personal insults will get you suspended, and they betray a pitiful lack of lexicon.

You spout vitriol with zero supporting cites while demanding them at every turn.

We know you can spell ridiculous...it's your go to phrase for everything you oppose. Again, without proof, or support.

So, let's show you what ridiculous is. You.

btw, I'll save you the time and tell Michael Hardner I asked if you were challenged.

Ridiculous!!!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/ontario-teachers-pledge-its-not-business-as-usual-on-extracurriculars/article4537777/

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/12/03/ottawa-public-elementary-students-miss-out-on-extracurricular-activities-as-teachers-escalate-work-to-rule-campaign

http://www.etfo.ca/AdviceForMembers/PRSMattersBulletins/Pages/Voluntary%20Extracurricular%20Activities.aspx

http://www.citynews.ca/2013/02/28/elementary-teachers-continue-boycott-of-extracurricular-activities/

http://www.essex.ontariopc.com/News/Details/Union-forbids-teachers-from-returning-to-extracurriculars-

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2012/10/12/students-fear-for-extracurricular-future

Those are temporary actions in lieu of strike - work to the rules.

If teachers weren't generally doing a lot of voluntary extracurricular work, there wouldn't be anything to withdraw would there?

.

Edited February 9, 2015 by jacee

[drummindiver]

Personal insults will get you suspended, and they betray a pitiful lack of lexicon.

Those are temporary actions in lieu of strike - work to the rules.

If teachers weren't generally doing a lot of voluntary extracurricular work, there wouldn't be anything to withdraw would there?

.

Personal attack? I asked you a legit question.

And "who the hell told you that crap. Ridiculous" while warm and fuzzy, does nothing to further the conversation.

[jacee]

Personal attack? I asked you a legit question.

And "who the hell told you that crap. Ridiculous" while warm and fuzzy, does nothing to further the conversation.

are you totally stupid or mildly handicapped? Or both?

[Michael Hardner]

If somebody insults you, please report it to the moderator and move on.

Do not comment on it.

Furthermore, do not PM me and tell me you're going to insult somebody, it doesn't mean anything to me.

All of this is with Charles now.

Let's continue civilly, hmmm ?

[drummindiver]

Who the hell told you that crap!!

Ridiculous.

.

So, you've admitted teachers used to do extracurricular activities.

You've admitted the unions told their members not to do any more extracurricular activities.

Temporary actions nevertheless, the union told them to cease.

You don't get to make up facts as we go here.

[jacee]

So, you've admitted teachers used to do extracurricular activities.

You've admitted the unions told their members not to do any more extracurricular activities.

Temporary actions nevertheless, the union told them to cease.

You don't get to make up facts as we go here.

Nor you:

The union has recommended suspension of teachers' volunteer extracurricular work in Ontario elementary schools temporarily,

work to rule in lieu of strike.

It's very effective at getting public support as the whole community is affected by loss of the volunteer work that teachers do but it doesn't affect the classroom, child care, etc.

Teachers still do extracurricular everywhere else in the country.

Your comment was intentionally misleading.

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Edited February 9, 2015 by jacee