cybercoma Posted September 27, 2014 Report Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Of course he's not white, but he wasn't black either. More importantly he was actually brandishing a weapon. There isn't a single account of the deceased in Ferguson having a weapon on him, video or not. I just find it incredibly incongruous that you were so vocally displeased with the police in one situation where someone didn't need to die, but not in this situation, where clearly by all accounts the victim didn't need to be killed. Edited September 27, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
Smallc Posted September 27, 2014 Report Posted September 27, 2014 By all accounts, he was a less than awesome person, and the witnesses are, less than awesome people. I'm not sure what to think. Quote
cybercoma Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 it doesn't justify a death sentence. Quote
Smallc Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 My point is we don't really know what happened for certain. Given the victims (sic) disposition not long before the incident in question, we can assume some things that make it more likely that the officer was justified. Quote
Smallc Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) . Edited September 28, 2014 by Smallc Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 Those types of assumptions have ended up putting a lot of innocent black people in jail, especially in the US. DNA has luckily come along to clear at least some. I wonder how many have been put to death by those same assumptions? Quote
jbg Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 By all accounts, he was a less than awesome person, and the witnesses are, less than awesome people. I'm not sure what to think.I would hope that a cop would take into account a person's overall behavior, i.e. threatening or calm, before using deadly force. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
On Guard for Thee Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 If they are going to use deadly force anyway, who cares about overall behaviour. Or was that a Freudian slip on your part? Quote
jbg Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 If they are going to use deadly force anyway, who cares about overall behaviour. Or was that a Freudian slip on your part?No. Before the officer shoots he should at least observe the subject to determine if deadline force is needed or if the subject is just going about his/her business. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
On Guard for Thee Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 Well back to square one. We, or at least the court needs better information than we seem to have. It's a he says she says situation at the moment. We could throw the "thug" word around 'till the cows come home. Hopefully courts don't conclude on such wishy washy ideas. Quote
Argus Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 Of course he's not white, but he wasn't black either. No, he was an Arab Muslim. Have I given you some reason to believe I have a deeper concern for the well-being of Arab Muslims than I do for Black people? More importantly he was actually brandishing a weapon. There isn't a single account of the deceased in Ferguson having a weapon on him, video or not. Brown WAS a weapon. In fact, I'd way rather have confronted the little Arab guy with his knife than the great big Brown guy who could probably rip my arms off. I just find it incredibly incongruous that you were so vocally displeased with the police in one situation where someone didn't need to die, but not in this situation, where clearly by all accounts the victim didn't need to be killed. From looking at the video of the TTC incident it seemed clear to me the officers were not in any danger. This one involved a violent thug and I have seen nothing reliable to state the officer was not in considerable danger. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) Of course not. You heard that there was a big black guy involved, so that automatically means it's more dangerous than a "scrawny" Arab, despite the fact that the Arab was actually armed with a potentially deadly weapon. That's what I'm talking about. It's the assumptions you make without any information. Edited September 28, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 "I have seen nothing reliable to state the officer was not in considerable danger" Is that not just one of the most resounding double negatives you've ever heard? Quote
Black Dog Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) From looking at the video of the TTC incident it seemed clear to me the officers were not in any danger. This one involved a violent thug and I have seen nothing reliable to state the officer was not in considerable danger. There's no evidence the cop was in any danger when he fired the fatal shot. Edited September 29, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
jacee Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) No, he was an Arab Muslim. Have I given you some reason to believe I have a deeper concern for the well-being of Arab Muslims than I do for Black people? Brown WAS a weapon. In fact, I'd way rather have confronted the little Arab guy with his knife than the great big Brown guy who could probably rip my arms off. From looking at the video of the TTC incident it seemed clear to me the officers were not in any danger. This one involved a violent thug and I have seen nothing reliable to state the officer was not in considerable danger. "nothing"?He had his hands in the air, surrendering. . Edited September 29, 2014 by jacee Quote
Argus Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 "nothing"? He had his hands in the air, surrendering. . Yes, I've heard that suggestion. I consider it extremely unlikely. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) Of course not. You heard that there was a big black guy involved, so that automatically means it's more dangerous than a "scrawny" Arab, despite the fact that the Arab was actually armed with a potentially deadly weapon. That's what I'm talking about. It's the assumptions you make without any information. Have you ever been involved in a physical altercation? Yes, a six foot three guy of whatever colour is more dangerous than some scawny arab guy and his little knife. I might get cut by the Arab guy but I'm fairly sure I could take his knife away and put him through the window. Not nearly so sure about the 300lb six foot three Black guy. Edited September 29, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) I know the scrawny kid with the knife is probably going to move faster and not telegraph his punches as much as the bigger, slower opponent. Not to mention he was mentally disturbed and acting erratically. Edited September 29, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 In any case, you've missed my point. I'm sure both situations were dangerous. I'm not so sure deadly force was necessary in either. Quote
Argus Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 In any case, you've missed my point. I'm sure both situations were dangerous. I'm not so sure deadly force was necessary in either. Nor am I. There seem to be a lot of people who are absolutely sure it wasn't, though. Of course, I'm sure that would have nothing to do with the skin colour of the offender in question. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Black Dog Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Posted September 29, 2014 Nor am I. There seem to be a lot of people who are absolutely sure it wasn't, though. Of course, I'm sure that would have nothing to do with the skin colour of the offender in question. No it has to do with the various pieces of evidence, like the eyewitnesses you completely dismiss because of their skin colour. Quote
jbg Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 In any case, you've missed my point. I'm sure both situations were dangerous. I'm not so sure deadly force was necessary in either. Nobody can be sure. But law enforcers' are the ones with their lives on the line, not a bunch of natterers behind a keyboard. I'll tell you one thing; resisting law enforcement officers is unforgivably dumb. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
cybercoma Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 So you want to live in a society where law enforcement officers have free reign to murder you on the side of the road and all they need to do is write into their report that you were "resisting"? Quote
jbg Posted September 29, 2014 Report Posted September 29, 2014 So you want to live in a society where law enforcement officers have free reign to murder you on the side of the road and all they need to do is write into their report that you were "resisting"? What I suggested gives no one "free reign." I don't want law enforcers to be afraid to do their jobs either, Whether from physical danger or fear of too much second guessing. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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