User fees vs Taxpayer Funding For Infrastructure

[CPCFTW]

The thing that needs to be recognized is that infrastructure spending accounts for a fraction of the taxes we pay.. If we want better infrastructure we could literally just freeze public servant wages for a couple years, or reduce health transfers marginally, or allow for a couple extra students per teacher, and generate billions. The problem, as Boges pointed out, isn't revenue to pay for infrastructure. The problem is that every other category of spending is untouchable to the left. It's like saying you can't afford to eat dinner because you have to drive a BMW X5 instead of an X3.

[Michael Hardner]

This. Giving public servants and teachers 5 less bankable sick days per year would probably save us enough to build a new subway in every major city.

Just scouring the internet, it seems like it costs about $1B per station to make a subway.

So if we include, say, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary and Ottawa, with 5 to 20 stations per city, then that's $25B to $100B bill.

Now... based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service#Canada let's say 800K civil servants in Canada. By my math those 5 days are costing us $25K to $125K per employee according to your assertion.

So.... no.

[CPCFTW]

Just scouring the internet, it seems like it costs about $1B per station to make a subway.

So if we include, say, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary and Ottawa, with 5 to 20 stations per city, then that's $25B to $100B bill.

Now... based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service#Canada let's say 800K civil servants in Canada. By my math those 5 days are costing us $25K to $125K per employee according to your assertion.

So.... no.

Well it was hyperbole but you think there's only 800k civil servants in Canada?

There's a 3.6M public sector employee overclass in Canada: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/140509/t140509a002-eng.htm

There's 800k teachers (and only approx 7mil students!) We have 1 teacher for every 8.75 students. http://www42.statcan.gc.ca/smr08/2013/smr08_177_2013-eng.htm

Anyway lets do some more math. Lets say each paid sick day costs an average of $300. Lets say we reduce the average sick day taken by the public sector by 5 days. We save 3.6M x $300 x 5 = $5B per year.

Now the funny little thing that you forgot in your calculation is that subways take years to build. We could began construction today and complete construction of a 5 station subway line in each of those 5 cities in just 5 years ($25B cost over 5 years).

I guess maybe it wasn't hyperbole!

Coincidentally, the public sector takes an average of 5 paid sick days more than the private sector http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/public-servants-take-average-of-11-5-paid-sick-days-a-year-watchdog-finds-1.1673262.

So basically public sector paid sick days are costing us one 5 station subway line in each major city every 5 years. We could have by far the best public transit in the world if our public sector weren't so sickly!

Edited May 22, 2014 by CPCFTW

[Michael Hardner]

Well it was hyperbole but you think there's only 800k civil servants in Canada?

I got it from my link. Quadrupling the numbers by including all health care and education, and assuming they all have 5 bankable days and one subway station per year per city... yes that all works and it's nice math too with only a small stretch. Kudos.

[overthere]

The problem with so much of infrastructure is that it has no political gloss when it works, it only gets any attention when somebody or a bunch of people die from lack of it. Collapsing overpasses in Quebec, bad water in Ontario -those get people unelected. Decades of troublefree and invisible management- no votes..

It is really hard to get voters excited over your comeptent management of their sewage.

As for money, Alberta should pay for everything.

[eyeball]

Does this just apply to infrastructure or can we extend it to other expenditures that don't apply to us?

Good question, but since infrastructure use is often described as being a matter of choice by user fee fans, a better question would be can we extend it to other expenditures that we don't choose to pay for?