Missing Aboriginal Women Enquiry?

[Keepitsimple]

no - it's a prime example that showcases that there was little, if anything, accurate in what you wrote. Yes, I would agree that your mistakes and self-serving commentary is a, as you say, prime example of what you describe.

unlike you, I don't profess to have "the answers"... that's why I'm calling for an updated/current day inquiry where stakeholders and actual experts will work together to bring forward "some degree of consensus" on the underlying causal linkages and required change/improvement. To me, it makes no sense to speak of long dated 1996/1999 inquiries as being defacto reference points to work from. Comments that bemoan the lack of progress... that defer to a "do nothing" sentiment cause it's all been done before, done 'to-death'... those comments are not helpful, are not solution seeking. They're simply bitch/bemoan comments. More pointedly, your favoured Harper Conservative party, won't even recognize the issue beyond stating it's criminal, rather than sociologically based. Maybe I should put your smartest-guy routine on notice and challenge you to account/justify your favoured party's position and Harper's comments in that regard. How about we start there instead of you presuming to call me out, hey!

So......you have nothing to offer - except criticism. Par for the course I guess. I certainly don't have answers - but I'm trying to put forward ideas, some sort of vision - anything to break us out of the status quo. Ideas sometimes turn into options and then who knows, maybe an "answer".

[waldo]

So......you have nothing to offer - except criticism. Par for the course I guess. I certainly don't have answers - but I'm trying to put forward ideas, some sort of vision - anything to break us out of the status quo. Ideas sometimes turn into options and then who knows, maybe an "answer".

what I offered didn't sit well with you. Are you working on a follow-up post to answer my challenge? Gentle reminder #1:

"More pointedly, your favoured Harper Conservative party, won't even recognize the issue beyond stating it's criminal, rather than sociologically based. Maybe I should put your smartest-guy routine on notice and challenge you to account/justify your favoured party's position and Harper's comments in that regard. How about we start there instead of you presuming to call me out, hey!"

[Keepitsimple]

what I offered didn't sit well with you. Are you working on a follow-up post to answer my challenge? Gentle reminder #1:

"More pointedly, your favoured Harper Conservative party, won't even recognize the issue beyond stating it's criminal, rather than sociologically based. Maybe I should put your smartest-guy routine on notice and challenge you to account/justify your favoured party's position and Harper's comments in that regard. How about we start there instead of you presuming to call me out, hey!"

Like I said - once again, you have nothing to offer.

[Griffith]

Wow. Eleven pages into this thread, and most people are opposed to the idea of an inquiry. Perhaps even more disturbing, I haven't seen a serious discussion using two key words/concepts: racism and colonialism.

Many of you have claimed that you're well aware of why there's so many missing and murdered Aboriginal women in Canada. Waldo has a done a good job at countering that. It's strange that we're all so aware of the problem, and yet the government over the past 10 years has made no serious steps to address the core systematic issues of reserves and indigenous communities. In fact, the last residential school was just closed 18 years ago - in 1996! - which was a huge factor in negatively affecting indigenous communities.

A lot of you have posted that there isn't a distinctly high level of missing indigenous women. That's odd, considering that a RCMP says the exact opposite. This is just statistics from known cases, meaning there's dozens if not hundreds of other cases not reported to the police potentially. "The study found aboriginal women made up 4.3 per cent of the Canadian population, but accounted for 16 per cent of female homicides and 11.3 per cent of missing women." Ok, so now we've objectively established that there is a unique issue for indigenous women. Moving on.

Alright. So we should take action, right? Why discuss it anymore if we're all aware it's a problem? Let me put it in simple terms: indigenous leaders want an inquiry to look at all facets of this issue. Is the problem solely that of dysfunctional and deprived indiginous communities? Are indigenous people just drunk, drug-crazed violent people? Or perhaps another factor has to do with the RCMP itself. Maybe the RCMP and other policing authority in Canada has to do with the lack of solved case, the degree of kidnappings and/or murders.

After all, it was the RCMP who policed the residential schools in the first place. It was the RCMP's role, in much of Western Canada, to ensure that they caught and reprimanded any aboriginal children caught trying to run away from the abusive, brutal residential schools. Of course these kids couldn't go home to their family, speak their native language or enjoy basic dignities - it was the role of the RCMP to keep them in line. EDIT: Just in case people aren't aware of what Resident Schools were like, let me explain. The government would visit reserves and indigenous parents, kidnap their kid and forced them to go to school far away. At the school, they were regularly disciplined (verbally, beatings, sometimes rape) for embracing their native culture. They were discouraged (read: forced) from speaking their native language, wearing their native clothing, and other native customs on threat of emotional, verbal and physical reprimands. Tens of thousands of indigenous kids died in this system. To rephrase that, the government was the one kidnapping aboriginals up until 1996, and the RCMP helped with those kidnappings.

And yet this same organization is responsible for protecting the well-being of a people it so recently wronged. Perhaps indigenous leaders - and those who have followed the history - feel as if there's some residual effects. Somehow.

Perhaps the racist founding of this country hasn't quite been resolved. Perhaps our government - in some way, shape or form - through some arm, crown corporation or department is perpetuating the problems. When the Britian first colonized the Canada the official policy was to slaughter and forced relocate. Since then forced relocation has been the official policy, up until 1994. Maybe, just maybe, the effects of that aren't quite gone. Maybe there's some - *gasp* - racism still lingering in the institutions and arms of the government that persued racist policy not too long ago.

Maybe that's why we should have an inquiry, to look at this from a broader, objective, historical, bureaucratic and social perspective. Maybe it's not as simple as we think it is. Maybe there's more to it than first meets the eye. Maybe we should have some humility.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Griffith

[scribblet]

Please try to stay on topic. Your post specifically invoked "Tories" in a partisan way. We all know just how wonderful a Liberal Canada has been for First Nations experiences in Canada, the best place for conquered and subjugated people anywhere in the whole universe !

One would think that prior to the Tory gov't, none of this happened and if we get another Liberal gov't all aboriginal issues will magically disappear because they care - oh so much. Like the cared enough to shelve their own white paper and commissions on the subject.

[waldo]

Like I said - once again, you have nothing to offer.

Gentle reminder #2:

"More pointedly, your favoured Harper Conservative party, won't even recognize the issue beyond stating it's criminal, rather than sociologically based. Maybe I should put your smartest-guy routine on notice and challenge you to account/justify your favoured party's position and Harper's comments in that regard. How about we start there instead of you presuming to call me out, hey!"

[waldo]

One would think that prior to the Tory gov't, none of this happened and if we get another Liberal gov't all aboriginal issues will magically disappear because they care - oh so much. Like the cared enough to shelve their own white paper and commissions on the subject.

one would think? That would be you... you're the one... thinking. Harper Conservative supporters ever so willing to play their victimhood card - never/rarely willing to accept current governing responsibility/accountability. As I said, there "is always a ruling party of the day - one that holds current accountability to act... targeting the current government is simply an extension of where 'the will to act... or not' rests today."

[waldo]

... all aboriginal issues will magically disappear...

well... at least you acknowledge there are "issues". How about you proxy for MLW member, 'Simple', who refuses to speak for his/your favoured Harper Conservative party... refuses to specifically address the words of Stephen Harper. Here, have a go, hey:

I think we should not view this as sociological phenomenon. We should view it as crime.

It is crime, against innocent people, and it needs to be addressed as such. We brought in laws across this country that I think are having more effect, in terms of crimes of violence against not just aboriginal women, but women and persons more generally. And we remain committed to that course of action

[Argus]

There needs to be a comprehensive action plan developed, delivered, and maintained. It's all up to those with the power to do that now. The time for research and investigations is over. It's now time for collaboration and action.

So you are advocating the government simply get to work, do what it thinks needs doing, and completely ignore the native governments?

[Argus]

cybercoma has it right.

It's ALL been studies and talk, no action. The disconnect of our government to continually do studies and not even act on them is atrocious. Maybe throw some of them on the reserves. See how that works out.

The government made a concerted effort to address native education issues, and it got them nothing but mass condemnation.

Who exactly are they to deal with among the rabble of hundreds of native 'chiefs'?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/you-cant-just-denounce-ottawa/article20259728/#dashboard/follows/

[eyeball]

It's strange that we're all so aware of the problem, and yet the government over the past 10 years has made no serious steps to address the core systematic issues of reserves and indigenous communities.

That's what we really need a serious inquiry into, government inaction.

That just might shed some light on a lot of other files the government also never seems to move on or even come close to closing.

[waldo]

The government made a concerted effort to address native education issues, and it got them nothing but mass condemnation.

Who exactly are they to deal with among the rabble of hundreds of native 'chiefs'?

one-way street, hey? Does it take... two to tango? I gots more if you want! Within your linked G&M article there's a reference/link to a review of the Act/process from Michael Mendelson of the Caledon Institute of Social Policy. He presumes to present a balanced perspective with no intent to draw conclusions... leaving that for readers of his review. Notwithstanding Harper Conservatives put forward a draft starting point without even consulting the Assembly of First Nations, Mendelson's review presents significant points/questions/uncertainties/etc., that any open-minded interpretation of his review, shouldn't so brazenly take your summary accounting Argus. And, of course, that review is not even one directly from the First Nation's perspective.

[Bonam]

Wow. Eleven pages into this thread, and most people are opposed to the idea of an inquiry. Perhaps even more disturbing, I haven't seen a serious discussion using two key words/concepts: racism and colonialism.

Many of you have claimed that you're well aware of why there's so many missing and murdered Aboriginal women in Canada. Waldo has a done a good job at countering that. It's strange that we're all so aware of the problem, and yet the government over the past 10 years has made no serious steps to address the core systematic issues of reserves and indigenous communities. In fact, the last residential school was just closed 8 years ago - in 1996! - which was a huge factor in negatively affecting indigenous communities.

On the planet I live on, 1996 was not 8 years ago.

[waldo]

On the planet I live on, 1996 was not 8 years ago.

let me check... dang, I hate this discovery method crap... yes! You are correct - I can confirm your math skills.

oh wait. It's actually 18 years... uhhh, you know, given the overall eloquency of the post in question, the waldo rates this as a typo and wonders why anal-attentiveness (not mine... I used the discovery method) superseded actual consideration of the posts content. Carry on.

[Smallc]

As if Waldo would never jump on something like that if it didn't agree with his position.

[waldo]

As if Waldo would never jump on something like that if it didn't agree with his position.

not I; I'm equal opportunity... but keep on chirping, hey!

[Argus]

one-way street, hey? Does it take... two to tango?

He explains how far the Harper government went to accommodate aboriginal demands. The notion that the Harper government was obdurate and unreasonable, widely put about by the dissident chiefs, is demolished in Mr. Mendelson’s careful reconstruction.

“He is a tough negotiator,” Mr. Mendelson wrote of Mr. Atleo. “He obtained substantial – some might say path-breaking – concessions from government. And the government showed itself willing to accommodate many First Nations requirements. These were negotiations in good faith on both sides.”

And what good did that accomplish from the government's perspective? It was remorselessly condemned and threatened by native leaders who didn't like with their chief's agreement. They demanded more, much more, strenuously, forcing him to resign.

And they wound up getting... nothing. So who does the government tango with now?

[waldo]

He explains how far the Harper government went to accommodate aboriginal demands. The notion that the Harper government was obdurate and unreasonable, widely put about by the dissident chiefs, is demolished in Mr. Mendelson’s careful reconstruction.

“He is a tough negotiator,” Mr. Mendelson wrote of Mr. Atleo. “He obtained substantial – some might say path-breaking – concessions from government. And the government showed itself willing to accommodate many First Nations requirements. These were negotiations in good faith on both sides.”

And what good did that accomplish from the government's perspective? It was remorselessly condemned and threatened by native leaders who didn't like with their chief's agreement. They demanded more, much more, strenuously, forcing him to resign.

And they wound up getting... nothing. So who does the government tango with now?

don't read the G&M journalists interpretation... read the actual Mendelson review. Most certainly FNs need to get their 'pecking order' in place... the most obvious glaring point, up front, is that the Assembly of First Nations does not speak "with complete authority" for all native chiefs/bands. When there are a couple of hundred chiefs/bands in that category, you can't help but wonder how did the process get as far as it did in the first place. The answer to that question does not lie with one side only... why would the Harper Conservative government not flush this key point out before even presuming to initiate such an undertaking?

most certainly the government can't presume to negotiate with each and every band separately..... but that should be the first order of the day. Who/what does speak for "all" First Nations? Without getting into the meat of the contentious low-level details in the intended Act, First Nation education rights and entitlement (from the government) is enshrined in the Constitution... as are, of course, treaty rights. As I interpret, too many of the 'independent chiefs/bands' (those not accepting to the absolute authority of the Assembly of First Nations) felt these enshrined rights were not being completely considered/covered/protected. They are certainly entitled to that interpretation, legitimate or not.

[eyeball]

So I take it Conservatives are no more interested in an inquiry into government inaction than Liberals.

Why am I not surprised?

[Smallc]

Complete authority is impossible to achieve. In a democracy, not everyone can get their way.

[jbg]

Read the f'ing article. Christ. You're making yourself look very foolish by responding before actually reading the damn piece.

What if he can't?

[cybercoma]

So you are advocating the government simply get to work, do what it thinks needs doing, and completely ignore the native governments?

i can see how you might be confused by the word collaboration. Maybe you could take a moment to look that up.

[Argus]

i can see how you might be confused by the word collaboration. Maybe you could take a moment to look that up.

I know what it means. It doesn't sound like the chiefs do, though. I repeat my question. Who do they collaborate with when the chiefs aren't interested in anything but getting their way? Or do you suggest he simply give them whatever it is they want?

[cybercoma]

I know what it means. It doesn't sound like the chiefs do, though. I repeat my question. Who do they collaborate with when the chiefs aren't interested in anything but getting their way? Or do you suggest he simply give them whatever it is they want?

Who do the Chiefs collaborate with when the government is only interested in getting its way?

[Smallc]

With eachother you would think.