Rob Anders Out

[Bryan]

I'm mildly surprised that anyone still calls the NDP "communist."

I mean, sure, it makes sense if you're coming at the topic from a fascist perspective.....

It's their core self-stated founding principle. Nobody here has fascism as a principle, stated or otherwise.

[bleeding heart]

Communism is not "their core self-stated founding principle."

The bit you cited is uncontroversial, and in several respects is adhered to by every single Western government of any party--without exception.

Like, for example, the statement you produced about government intervention in "monopolistic...organizations..as all parties agree to.

I said "fascist" as a joke....you see, I think those who promiscuously throw around terms like "communist' and "fascist" where they self-evidently do not apply are frightened of honest debate.

Anyway, while you're at it, you might want to throw some withering critiques at such socialist aspects of governance as the police...and the military.

As the piece you provided uncontroversially and rationally says: "where necessary."

[Bryan]

I think it's funny that you're offended by the communist label. It's not said to malign anyone, only to make a factual assessment of the party's principles. I'm not saying that's a bad thing if that's what floats your boat. I have some great friends who are communists.

[WWWTT]

I don't think so. The comment was "confiscate your corduroy clothing", seems equally benign as "confiscate your blue suit" to refer to kicking someone out of the CPC.

I missed that specific word… where does it say that other than in your own post?

Besides, Is it actually offensive to NDPers to be identified with Communists? Last I checked, their constitution seems to imply that's what they align themselves with.

http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/politics/inside-politics-blog/2011/04/the-ndps-missing-constitution.html

That's lifted directly from the Communist Manifesto, AND it reads exactly like a Fidel Castro speech.

"one wonders"

Did you actually read the article I linked to? The NDP pulled the official document from their website when the CBC started investigating it, and later replaced it with the text you posted -- one the expunged the words "socialism" and "social democrat" entirely.

So, does that mean that the NDP no longer believes in their founding principles?

I think it's funny that you're offended by the communist label. It's not said to malign anyone, only to make a factual assessment of the party's principles. I'm not saying that's a bad thing if that's what floats your boat. I have some great friends who are communists.

That's good Bryan (slowly applauding in a sarcastic manner)

You somehow turned this Rob Anders expulsion from the riding association into a NDP communist thread. With waldo's help no doubt

Well just to recap things here, after Mandela died, it came out how much Anders wanted to remind everyone that Mandela was helped by the Castro government! And at the same time he tried to link communism with terrorism!

So tell me then, how did that work out for Anders? Those bloody communists helping people with their rights and liberties! How communist!

Anders is a big Reagan/Thatcher supporter! Can't support people fighting for their civil liberties and the right to vote, that's communism talking!

And good old Harper didn't have the backbone to boot Anders so he let the riding association executive give him his walking papers. Good for the riding association! Just shows how many vultures are starting to circle around Harper!

WWWTT

[Bryan]

You're absolutely right, WWWTT, I should not have jumped into the thread drift. My apologies. If you wish, I can go back and delete those posts.

Back on topic: Harper had no intention of booting Anders. He's an original Reformer, and a loyal party soldier. There are other nominations to come, and the election is a long way off. By the time the election does come around, Anders will most likely have a nomination in another riding, and Liepert will probably have already been booted from the party.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Bryan

[waldo]

You somehow turned this Rob Anders expulsion from the riding association into a NDP communist thread. With waldo's help no doubt

as relates to me, you'll need to explain yourself here

[waldo]

"one wonders"

Did you actually read the article I linked to? The NDP pulled the official document from their website when the CBC started investigating it, and later replaced it with the text you posted -- one the expunged the words "socialism" and "social democrat" entirely.

So, does that mean that the NDP no longer believes in their founding principles?

I'm well aware of the timing and circumstances related to the NDP having intent to change the preamble on it's 'radar' since at least 2000. You clearly weren't sincere in your "last you checked" reference. You had the opportunity to speak to the new preamble, with a "new check" directly at the NDP website... instead, you feigned knowledge of the new preamble. The timing of the change you speak to aligns with the most recent NDP April 2013 convention. Member 'bleeding heart' has addressed your confusion concerning 'founding principles'.

[WWWTT]

You're absolutely right, WWWTT, I should not have jumped into the thread drift. My apologies. If you wish, I can go back and delete those posts.

Back on topic: Harper had no intention of booting Anders. He's an original Reformer, and a loyal party soldier. There are other nominations to come, and the election is a long way off. By the time the election does come around, Anders will most likely have a nomination in another riding, and Liepert will probably have already been booted from the party.

No I'm not asking you to delete anything. Just noting how you tried to turn this Anders thread into a communist thread. And the irony of Anders Mandela/communist/terrorist comments that lead to his lynching!

I haven't heard of anything like this before! I tried doing a search but all that came up of interest was this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mps-face-nomination-battles-redrawn-ridings-in-lead-up-to-2015-1.2497719

That's how much Anders was hated in his own riding that apparently he was representing! He got booted! If you can think of any examples where a long time sitting MP or even an MPP never got the nomination from their riding association, please provide the info!!!

Now as far as getting the nomination from another riding??? Well, Anders is going to have to go up against another sitting conservative MP isn't he, if he wants a safe conservative riding. There is also the possibility of a retiring conservative MP and one of the 30 new ridings that are getting carved out. 6 of which are in conservative fort Alberta. Or Linda Duncan's Edmonton riding. But any of these scenarios would involve parachuting him into another riding association. Can he convince enough members at another nomination meeting to vote for him? How would the locals feels? And the local candidate(s)? I guess it's possible? After all, Anders can pull in the donation $$$$$! And in politics, if you can pull in the $$$, your 99% in!

This travelling road side freak show Anders story isn't over, I'll give you that one easy!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

as relates to me, you'll need to explain yourself here

Your debating with Bryan about the NDP in the Rob Anders thread. Don't let Bryan control the direction this thread goes in would be my advise.

Not just that, Rob Anders is the gift that keeps giving, he supplies lots of ammo that can be used against himself.

WWWTT

[waldo]

Your debating with Bryan about the NDP in the Rob Anders thread. Don't let Bryan control the direction this thread goes in would be my advise.

in relation to respective party nomination procedures, the sequence of thread posts, drew a reference to the NDP as early as page 1 of this thread... from there forward at least 5 other members, including yourself, have made or responded to NDP nomination handling references. I inquired about the appropriateness of the "Commie/corduroy" reference... which brought forward the subsequent discussion concerning the NDP constitution/preamble. Particularly in regards the thread drift you take exception to, since the NDP is your favoured party, it might be prudent upon you to clear up any misonceptions some may hold concerning the stated "Commie founding principles" of the NDP, and those who may still wish to throw that tag/labeling at the NDP... of course, if you're so inclined, please do so in either a new thread or one that is appropriate to you. Thanks in advance.

[WWWTT]

in relation to respective party nomination procedures, the sequence of thread posts, drew a reference to the NDP as early as page 1 of this thread... from there forward at least 5 other members, including yourself, have made or responded to NDP nomination handling references. I inquired about the appropriateness of the "Commie/corduroy" reference... which brought forward the subsequent discussion concerning the NDP constitution/preamble. Particularly in regards the thread drift you take exception to, since the NDP is your favoured party, it might be prudent upon you to clear up any misonceptions some may hold concerning the stated "Commie founding principles" of the NDP, and those who may still wish to throw that tag/labeling at the NDP... of course, if you're so inclined, please do so in either a new thread or one that is appropriate to you. Thanks in advance.

Ya except you never bring it back to Rob Anders do you?

You're playing Bryan's debating game here.

How you debate is your business, but don't think your going to influence my style.

WWWTT

[overthere]

I'm not sure if your labeling the NDP as "card carrying, corduroy wearing Commies" is verboten around here. Anyone?

Now I'll sit back while you explain how you combine two posts about and come up with a singular and personal slur. Very dishonest, at best.

The bit about Commies was to illustrate that the Alberta PCs don't care about other political affiliations in their membership. That's a fact

My NDP reference does not mention Commies, it refers to the exclusionary nature of their membership. Also a fact.

Perhaps the moderators would like to suspend Waldo for this bit of dishonesty.

[overthere]

"I inquired about the appropriateness of the "Commie/corduroy" reference"

Unrelated and not a 'reference' at all except in your anxiety to defend soemthing. See above, in particular see my posts above which do not relate the two.

If I've offended your fashion sense, keep wearing the corduroy ensembles.

[Argus]

I'm mildly surprised that anyone still calls the NDP "communist."

I mean, sure, it makes sense if you're coming at the topic from a fascist perspective.....

I find it odd that the danger of Fascism is taken seriously, and Fascists are always greeted with suspicion and disdain, but people seem to believe Communists are either gone, or just quaint, and completely unthreatening. This despite the fact Communism has killed more people than Fascism.

[waldo]

Now I'll sit back while you explain how you combine two posts about and come up with a singular and personal slur. Very dishonest, at best.

The bit about Commies was to illustrate that the Alberta PCs don't care about other political affiliations in their membership. That's a fact

My NDP reference does not mention Commies, it refers to the exclusionary nature of their membership. Also a fact.

Perhaps the moderators would like to suspend Waldo for this bit of dishonesty.

get a grip! I quoted both your posts, both times you relate the comments toward the NDP, making sure to add in the dogma sweetener wording. Who is the "card carrying Commie" you're making a reference to? An actual card carrying Commie? Hey if so, please learn to properly articulate your thoughts for appropriate interpretation.

[overthere]

Waldo is the only one who linked communism with the NDP.

I wonder why too.

[overthere]

"Who is the "card carrying Commie" you're making a reference to? "

It's a generic illustration of the very slack membership requirements of the PCs in AB. You can be a member of the Communist Party, NDP, Liberals, Flat Earthers or anybody you wish while still being a PC member.

I clearly compared it to the much more restrictive requirements of the NDP party, which does not allow other political affiliations for its members.

All of which is quite clear.

You need to work on your backtracking skills.

Now apologize for repeatedly misprepresenting what I said here.

[waldo]

Waldo is the only one who linked communism with the NDP.

I wonder why too.

oh really! Who quickly brought out the (former) NDP preamble and reference to the "Communist manifesto"... to the supposed Communist founding principle of the NDP? That sir, was not me. If you're genuine in your suggestion that you really were speaking to a "card carrying Commie" (while not implying the NDP), I trust that you can accept the confusion in your failed articulation... confusion that shows itself manifested in how quickly that "Communist manifesto" preamble and founding principle reference came forward.

[overthere]

"oh really! Who quickly brought out the (former) NDP preamble and reference to the "Communist manifesto"... to the supposed Communist founding principle of the NDP? "

Beats me, not me either.

WTF are you talking about? Link.

"If you're genuine in your suggestion that you really were speaking to a "card carrying Commie" (while not implying the NDP), "

WTF are you talking about? I never said that either.

Stop the personal attacks and slanders now.

[Argus]

Would someone like to start another thread about communism and the NDP?

[waldo]

Stop the personal attacks and slanders now.

you're subject to neither. Clearly, we can add comprehension difficulty to your lack of articulation.

[waldo]

Would someone like to start another thread about communism and the NDP?

I suggested the same and inquired if one of it's more fervent supporters might be inclined to do so. Equally, perhaps, the member who spoke to the "Communist manifesto" and founding principle behind the NDP might also be inclined.

[Big Guy]

Many years ago, I remember coming home to my young son and younger daughter shouting and hitting at each other. I asked who started it. She said it was him when he threw her doll into the toilet. He said that he did that only after she kicked his train down the stairs. She explained that she kicked the train down the stairs because he took the last of the cheerios from the box. He explained that he took the last cheerio because she took the last strawberry from the fruit dish the day before. He said .....

At that point I gave them both a swat on the rear (I was from the old school) and told myself that this is only a phase and that they will grow up and mature eventually.

[waldo]

At that point I gave them both a swat on the rear (I was from the old school) and told myself that this is only a phase and that they will grow up and mature eventually.

cute story - relevance?

[waldo]

All of which is quite clear.

You need to work on your backtracking skills.

Now apologize for repeatedly misprepresenting what I said here.

you wrote these 2 sentences, back-to-back, uninterrupted: "They don't care if you're a card carrying Commie at the same time. Not so with the NDP, no two timing or wavering on the dogma". I've related how I interpreted your declared clearness and the association that is 'quite clear' to me. That latter clearness, to me, is one that regularly manifests itself in how some refer to/label the NDP... as born out by the subsequent rush that spoke to the NDP "Communist Manifesto" preamble and "Communist founding principle" of the NDP. You've been given latitude to explain that your poorly articulated wording and the subsequent association was not your intent.

.