an israeli's evaluation of ariel sharon's career

[Rue]

So Bud I'm waiting.......lol.

[bud]

So Bud I'm waiting.......lol.

when i see you type "lol", the crazy image gets bolder.

what are you waiting for rue? you are the one who was supposed to back up the comments you've posted about me.

let me know when you're able to back up your claim. if you're unable to back up this claim, then you have once again been caught lying:

you are in favour of violently dismantling israel and believe in engaging in terrorism against israel.

[Rue]

when i see you type "lol", the crazy image gets bolder.

what are you waiting for rue? you are the one who was supposed to back up the comments you've posted about me.

let me know when you're able to back up your claim. if you're unable to back up this claim, then you have once again been caught lying:

Your repeatedly making derogatory comments about me personally do not change what I am challenging you on. You claim I am wrong for stating you support Hamas, Hezbollah and the violent overthrow of Israel.

So clear it up.

State here:

1-you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state

2-you are against any acts of terror

3-you disagree with using terror against Israel or anyone who supports Israel.

State that and I will be glad to come on this forum and say I am wrong.

I repeat again, your past threads and posts have made it clear you do not believe Israel should be a Jewish state, and violence to end it

is justified.

Calling me mentally ill or a liar will not change that.

[bud]

Your repeatedly making derogatory comments about me personally do not change what I am challenging you on. You claim I am wrong for stating you support Hamas, Hezbollah and the violent overthrow of Israel.

So clear it up.

State here:

1-you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state

2-you are against any acts of terror

3-you disagree with using terror against Israel or anyone who supports Israel.

State that and I will be glad to come on this forum and say I am wrong.

I repeat again, your past threads and posts have made it clear you do not believe Israel should be a Jewish state, and violence to end it

is justified.

Calling me mentally ill or a liar will not change that.

my position:

1) i don't care what they vote to call themelves as a country.

2) i am against any act of terror, whether it's done by individuals, groups or governments against civilians. this includes suicide attacks, bombs on civilian infrastructure, etc. etc.

3) see above.

your position, without writing an essay:

1) do you support the creation of a palestinian state?

2) do you agree with canada, u.s. and the international community's position on the settlements; that they are illegal and on palestinian land?

3) do you believe the expansion of settlements (which are happening now) are an act that hurts the peace process?

4) does east jerusalem belong to the palestinians, as international says?

[Bonam]

1) do you support the creation of a palestinian state?

2) do you agree with canada, u.s. and the international community's position on the settlements; that they are illegal and on palestinian land?

3) do you believe the expansion of settlements (which are happening now) are an act that hurts the peace process?

4) does east jerusalem belong to the palestinians, as international says?

1) Yes.

2) No. What Palestinian land will be is yet to be defined so the settlements are on disputed land, not Palestinian land. Many proposals for a future Palestinian state include land swaps... modifying the border so that Jewish population centers (settlements) become part of Israel while other areas become part of Palestine. Facts on the ground outweigh lines on half century old maps.

3) Yes.

4) No. East Jerusalem should be partitioned in a way that makes sense when a sovereign Palestinian state is established. The longer Palestinians wait, the less they are likely to end up with.

[GostHacked]

Lowering this thread as you to all to name call, bait and engage in personal insults won't change a thing Bud.

Call him an anti-semite. That should help.

[Rue]

Ghost Hacked what do you think I should do? If someone suggests because I am a Jew and believe my people have a right to universal sufferage should I remain silent when they make cracks that this makes me tribal and an ultranationalist? Well? If the shoes were reversed and you were baited like that because you are Jewish how would you feel?

What does it take to get you to understand criticizing Israeli state policies is one thing, ridiculing me personally because of my perceived ethnicity is anti-Semitism and inappropriate on this forum.

Is a Christian tribal because they are Catholic and have the Vatican City as a state? Is a Christian tribal because they are Anglican and live in England?

Does it make the Czech Republic, Japan, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Ireland, China, Taiwan, to name but a few countries tribal because they have laws of return fast tracking citizenship for certain foreigners applying for citizenship?

Where does anyone get off in discussing Israel state policies attacking me or anyone else because they perceive our ethnicity and desire to be a collective automatically makes us tribal?

I criticized Bud for doing just that. I criticize him or anyone as being anti-Semitic when under the pretext of criticizing Israeli state policies they make references inferring all supporters of Israel or any Jew who supports his people's right to express themselves as a collective is "tribal" or a child torturer or rapist. Of course.

What would you have me do. Sit silent? Is that what I should do,allow people to mock my ethnicity?

Do you think I should call Palestinians tribal or Arabs tribal and ultra nationalist because they want a second Palestinian state?

Come on.

Don't make comments to me as if I pulled that complaint or concern out of the blue.

No I do not want to hear you or anyone else telling me what kind of Jew you like or don't like. That is not discussing Israeli state policies.

I have asked and I ask you again, can we not discuss these issues without turning them into an excuse to simply hurl insults at Jews, Israelis, supporters of Israel. Is that possible?

You think its constructive dialogue to say Harper is complicit in supporting Israel torture children? You think it constructive dialogue to infer Israel and its citizens are rapists? Does throwing out such blanket negative slurs contribute to a tolerant dialogue? You expect me to sit here and be insulted or have my people be insulted in silence?

You think because Stephen Harper and other gentiles show respect for the suffering of my people its fair to call them complicit with child torture?

Is that it? Because Harper speaks out against terrorism we accuse him of being complicit with child torture?

Is that it Ghost?

If you think insulting people while discussing Israeli state policies is constructive then do what they do, start threads that Israel bash. Pull a quote from somewhere, make an anti Israeli statement, and then pass that off as dialogue. Go ahead. I am not stopping you but don't expect me to sit here while alleged discussion of Israel is being used as a pretext to belittle my people and my identity because we choose to be a collective.

That is why my people say never again and we mean never again. We will not sit in silence while people insult us, make indirect comments that refer to us as rapists and child torturers, refer to us as a cancer that must be wiped out.

No we shall not be silent. This is why we started this country so that never again can people try commit genocide on us ever again.

This time we take a stand, an existential stand that says, we go back to whence we started and we stand and if you want to deny our existence we will stand united. We promised each other never again will we allow anyone to wipe us out. We do not apologize for that, It does not make us hate Arabs or Palestinians. It does not make us child torturers, rapists, facists, ultranationalists, tribal or any other insulting words you care throw our way.

You want to join in and refer to holocaust survivors who escaped the fascism of Europe European invaders, go ahead.

The name calling, the attempt to insult Jews for standing our ground, the attempt to lecture us that a good Jew must know his place and that is as a person with no collective identity subservient to non Jews-no Ghos,t its not going to get you silence, not from me.

I am proud of my ethnicity, I am proud of my people, and I will not sit silently as people try trash it thank you very much.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Rue

[bud]

Ghost Hacked what do you think I should do? If someone suggests because I am a Jew and believe my people have a right to universal sufferage should I remain silent when they make cracks that this makes me tribal and an ultranationalist? Well? If the shoes were reversed and you were baited like that because you are Jewish how would you feel?

you are being criticized for two reasons:

1- your refusal to stand with justice and human rights.

2- your inability to understand what is being said to you and your bad habit of creating things in your head.

Edited January 26, 2014 by bud

[eyeball]

The longer Palestinians wait, the less they are likely to end up with.

It took Zionists nearly 4000 years.

The precedent they've set should stand as an inspiration to dispossessed people for a long long time to come.

[GostHacked]

Ghost Hacked what do you think I should do?

Stop with the long diatribe rants for one.

Attack the message, not the poster, as you tend to do.

If someone suggests because I am a Jew and believe my people have a right to universal sufferage should I remain silent when they make cracks that this makes me tribal and an ultranationalist? Well? If the shoes were reversed and you were baited like that because you are Jewish how would you feel?

Yes, like I was told once I don't know what it's like to be black and be called 'nigger' I had a black roommate accuse me of calling him just that. I end up kicking him out because he was harassing my other roommate to no end. So in the end I could not care less. I grew up knowing my Opa fought for Nazi Germany in WWII. However the term does not apply to me, so anyone throwing that label on my is simply an ignorant ass.

Also don't feed the trolls. You are your own worst enemy when it comes to bud and hudson jones. Your fingers ITCH at the thought of wanting to rant on about them whenever you can.

What does it take to get you to understand criticizing Israeli state policies is one thing, ridiculing me personally because of my perceived ethnicity is anti-Semitism and inappropriate on this forum.

I was simply pointing out the fact that you have dropped the anti-semite care many times. Quite a few on me alone. So if you don't want to be called names, you best not drop them yourself. I did try to talk about policies, but that was met with the anti-semite card. And even after explaining that, we have this yet again.

Where does anyone get off in discussing Israel state policies attacking me or anyone else because they perceive our ethnicity and desire to be a collective automatically makes us tribal?

When they get discussed, mainly by Bud and Hudson Jones, you and a couple other posters love to label anyone that agrees with anything those two say as 'anti-semite'. Are we really having this conversation again when I showed you exactly what my stance was? And here you are going off again? I've seen this before.

I criticized Bud for doing just that. I criticize him or anyone as being anti-Semitic when under the pretext of criticizing Israeli state policies they make references inferring all supporters of Israel or any Jew who supports his people's right to express themselves as a collective is "tribal" or a child torturer or rapist. Of course.

Then your beef is with him and not me. However, the term 'anti-semite' is getting really old and tiresome to the point where it has lost all impact and meaning. No one cares anymore if the term is used.

No I do not want to hear you or anyone else telling me what kind of Jew you like or don't like. That is not discussing Israeli state policies.

I have asked and I ask you again, can we not discuss these issues without turning them into an excuse to simply hurl insults at Jews, Israelis, supporters of Israel. Is that possible?

The insult as you perceive it was not towards Jews. It was to point out the ridiculousness use of the term 'anti-semite' by you.

You think its constructive dialogue to say Harper is complicit in supporting Israel torture children? You think it constructive dialogue to infer Israel and its citizens are rapists? Does throwing out such blanket negative slurs contribute to a tolerant dialogue? You expect me to sit here and be insulted or have my people be insulted in silence?

What is the rhetoric towards the Palestinians some have taken here? Yes you have taken some of those posters to task, I will admit that.

Is that it? Because Harper speaks out against terrorism we accuse him of being complicit with child torture?

Is that it Ghost?

No matter what side you support, children are caught up as victims on both sides. Many reports indicate IDF soldiers targeting children (can't trust any Palestinian because they might blow you up based on their upbringing of hatred towards Jews). What a wonderful paranoid stressed world you live in and a vicious vicious circle that has been going on for decades.

I am proud of my ethnicity, I am proud of my people, and I will not sit silently as people try trash it thank you very much.

You ethnicity is irrelevant to the discussion as I said before, and as you agreed with me 100%. It's a useless talking point.

[Bonam]

It took Zionists nearly 4000 years.

"Zionists" haven't existed for 4000 years, Jews have. The significance of this slip-up should not be lost, as those who criticize Israel frequently claim that they have nothing against Jews, just against the evil Zionists. Of course, many then equate Jews with Zionists, as shown in statements like the above.

The precedent they've set should stand as an inspiration to dispossessed people for a long long time to come.

Other dispossessed peoples have better precedents to look to. If every stateless people had to wait thousands of years, most of them would be out of luck, since group identities rarely last that long (the vast vast majority of the peoples named in histories from 4000 years ago are long forgotten).

[eyeball]

"Zionists" haven't existed for 4000 years, Jews have. The significance of this slip-up should not be lost, as those who criticize Israel frequently claim that they have nothing against Jews, just against the evil Zionists. Of course, many then equate Jews with Zionists, as shown in statements like the above.

Well, I've got to call the people/culture/society/religion/etc over there something. I was afraid I'd be lambasted if I said Jews. As for calling them anything else, you have to be careful what you say in Canada with the NSA and CSEC listening. Our ruler has certainly let us know how feels about anyone who says the wrong thing.

Other dispossessed peoples have better precedents to look to. If every stateless people had to wait thousands of years, most of them would be out of luck, since group identities rarely last that long (the vast vast majority of the peoples named in histories from 4000 years ago are long forgotten).

That's why I fundamentally just identify as an Earthling, it's less confusing. Speaking of waiting thousands of years It would sure be nice if people would try to catch up.

[Hudson Jones]

Sharon helped shape was ZIonism is and what Israel has become. Unless the Israeli people realize the path that they are on and prevent people like Netanyahu to get into power, Zionism will follow Sharon's path.

Here is a good article by another self-hating Jew, Max Blumenthal

How Ariel Sharon Shaped Israel’s Destiny

A central player in Israeli affairs since the state’s inception, Ariel Sharon molded history according to his own stark vision. He won consent for his plans through ruthlessness and guile, and resorted to force when he could not find any. An accused war criminal who presided over the killing of thousands of civilians, his foes referred to him as “The Bulldozer.” To those who revered him as a strong-armed protector and patron saint of the settlements, he was “The King of Israel.” In a life acted out in three parts, Sharon destroyed entire cities, wasted countless lives and sabotaged careers to shape the reality on the ground.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Hudson Jones