Law and Order in America

[dre]

Your examples, as I pointed out, are needles in a haystack. Doesn't make them ok by any means, but it doesn't make them representative of "law and order in America," either. It never ceases to amaze me how the small minority of instances are made out to be representative of the whole. Why isn't the way the vast majority of law enforcement officials handle themselves representative of law and order in America?

But do keep those videos coming. Considering the fact that we have over half a million law enforcement officers, a dozen videos for visual effect is likely a necessity to try to present it as oh-so-awful here in America.

The problem is that theres more and more of these things happening... Up 25% in the last decade or so.

[kimmy]

Your examples, as I pointed out, are needles in a haystack.

The ones posted in this thread are hardly an exhaustive list of incidents caught on video, and one can only wonder how many incidents occur that aren't recorded on video. You might think we are looking at a needle in a haystack, but it might also be the tip of an iceberg.

The author of the book I've mentioned, Radley Balko, indicates that SWAT team deployments have gone from about 3000 per year in the 1980s, to 50000 in 2005. Surely that dramatic of a rise indicates a change in the way police are doing their business.

-k

[ChristopherJ]

So that makes, what - about a dozen or so incidents? I think that's about how many videos you've posted now - and good for you being allowed to post said videos.

In a nation of 312 million people, with hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers having countless encounters on a daily basis throughout the year, they most definitely represent "law and order in America." (and yes, that is sarcasm ..........)

Once again, a little research would go along way.

But this is what happens in a country where private prisons exist.

Where police stations only recieve funding if they complete X amount of raids.

Where undercover cops befriend high school students in an attempt to get the kids to buy weed off of them.

The reason the US is going downhill is because people either have no idea what's going on, or they refuse to accept the evidence presented to them. You're in the latter category which is probably worse.

[jacee]

Your examples, as I pointed out, are needles in a haystack. Doesn't make them ok by any means, but it doesn't make them representative of "law and order in America," either. It never ceases to amaze me how the small minority of instances are made out to be representative of the whole. Why isn't the way the vast majority of law enforcement officials handle themselves representative of law and order in America?

But do keep those videos coming. Considering the fact that we have over half a million law enforcement officers, a dozen videos for visual effect is likely a necessity to try to present it as oh-so-awful here in America.

Nobody said they're representative of policing: They're representative of BAD policing.

Everybody has a camera these days, and BAD COPS are being outed.

And that's a good thing!

Would you defend bad surgeons? Is it ok for them to screw up your surgery as badly as some of these officers screw up their job?

What about bad bakers who bake mice and cockroaches in your bread?

NOBODY gets to screw up as badly as cops AND GET AWAY WITH IT!

[Guest American Woman]

Nobody said they're representative of policing: They're representative of BAD policing.

Actually, yeah - "law and order in America" as the thread title is saying just that.

NOBODY gets to screw up as badly as cops AND GET AWAY WITH IT!

That's a total matter of opinion. Nothing more. I could come back with "you're wrong!" But of course neither of us could prove our POV, so what's the point?

[GostHacked]

These police acted within the confines of the law and their duties. Or something like that.

The cop driving the car into the one person. The cop shooting one of the people in a fight. The cop throwing the old person to the ground. The two cops dragging a man out of his wheelchair and slamming him to the ground.

And be warned some is graphic.

You cannot say that is acceptable police behaviour.

http://www.you tube.com/watch?v=tHkFySlyTwc

[Scotty]

Your examples, as I pointed out, are needles in a haystack. Doesn't make them ok by any means, but it doesn't make them representative of "law and order in America," either. It never ceases to amaze me how the small minority of instances are made out to be representative of the whole. Why isn't the way the vast majority of law enforcement officials handle themselves representative of law and order in America?

So basically there is no amount of evidence or instances which could convince you that there is any issue?

[GostHacked]

You can also find many examples of Canadian police doing a lot of the same. Actually this kind of thing is on the rise in many many countries.

[ChristopherJ]

You can also find many examples of Canadian police doing a lot of the same. Actually this kind of thing is on the rise in many many countries.

You can nitpick the examples posted, but I hope you understand that the law system in the US, especially the prison system, is different. The growth of the SWAT team and high amounts of police raids are unique to the states. And when you have private prison systems, the lengths which police departments will go to arrest people is deplorable. To me, that's what seperates the US more than anything.

Edited July 14, 2013 by ChristopherJ

[Guest American Woman]

You can nitpick the examples posted, but I hope you understand that the law system in the US, especially the prison system, is different. The growth of the SWAT team and high amounts of police raids are unique to the states. And when you have private prison systems, the lengths which police departments will go to arrest people is deplorable. To me, that's what seperates the US more than anything.

Cite to your source confirming that, please.

[ChristopherJ]

Cite to your source confirming that, please.

The huge increase in police raids has already been documented.

Private prison system:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/13/aclu-lawsuit-east-mississippi-correctional-facility

Disgraceful

[Guest American Woman]

The huge increase in police raids has already been documented.

Private prison system:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/13/aclu-lawsuit-east-mississippi-correctional-facility

Disgraceful

Sorry, but the Guardian does not serve as a source for your claim. I want to see studies/stats to compare with the rest of the world. I assume you have no such source(s)?

[ChristopherJ]

Sorry, but the Guardian does not serve as a source for your claim. I want to see studies/stats to compare with the rest of the world. I assume you have no such source(s)?

That website sites various sources if you'd take the time to read it.

Listen, I have no desire to go out of my way to inform you of your country's prison system. If you don't believe me do some research yourself. I'm certainly not lying.

[ChristopherJ]

http://www.businessinsider.com/11-facts-about-prisons-2011-7?op=1

[Guest American Woman]

That website sites various sources if you'd take the time to read it.

There are no sources that give the information that I am asking for. There are no sources supporting your claim.

Listen, I have no desire to go out of my way to inform you of your country's prison system. If you don't believe me do some research yourself. I'm certainly not lying.

Listen, all I'm asking for is a source to back your claim. It's your responsibility to provide sources to back what you say here.

[ChristopherJ]

Those articles back up my claims. If you want more in-depth research look it up yourself. It's sad how unaware you are of your own country's situation.

[Guest American Woman]

Those articles back up my claims. If you want more in-depth research look it up yourself. It's sad how unaware you are of your own country's situation.

No, they don't, and I don't care to spend time searching for information that likely doesn't exist. It's your job to back up your claims. It's sad that you mouth off and then don't provide sources to back up your claims when asked.

[ChristopherJ]

This woud be a good start if you're truly interested in objectively informing your opinion:

http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons

It's really tiresome when I read articles daily, listen to podcasts, watch documentaries, etc to develop a full understanding of what's going on, yet every time I discuss something, I have to provide very specific sources to inform all the gaps in your knowledge. I would recommend that if you don't have an understanding of what's going on, you shouldn't have an opinion in the first place.

Anyways, I've provided you plenty of information. It's exhuasting trying to talk to people who don't understand the political dynamics of their country. That's why your country has so many issues -- a largely ignorant population, often too proud in the 'merica! and the red, white and blue to objectively reflect in how messed up the system is.

I'm done. Keep your head in the sand.

[Guest American Woman]

It's really tiresome when I read articles daily, listen to podcasts, watch documentaries, etc to develop a full understanding of what's going on, yet every time I discuss something, I have to provide very specific sources to inform all the gaps in your knowledge. I would recommend that if you don't have an understanding of what's going on, you shouldn't have an opinion in the first place.

Oh, please. It's tiresome to have people making bold claims on here with nothing to back them up. That's quite different from "knowledge." I would recommend that if you don't have the source to back up your very specific claims, you shouldn't make the claims.

Anyways, I've provided you plenty of information. It's exhuasting trying to talk to people who don't understand the political dynamics of their country.

Poor baby. You can save yourself the "exhaustion" by not making hyperbolic claims that aren't backed up with any sources.

That's why your country has so many issues -- a largely ignorant population, often too proud in the 'merica! and the red, white and blue to objectively reflect in how messed up the system is.

Speaking of ignorant, this is more of the type of "knowledge" that you put out there and expect people to just accept. Oh, you'll find some. There are those who are more than wiling to jump on such a bandwagon. Im just not one of them, and that doesn't make the American population the ignorant ones.

I'm done.

Hallelujah. There is a God.

[cybercoma]

You'll find out quickly that there is no sense in providing some posters with citations because there isn't any source on the planet that is good enough to sway their opinion. Fierce nationalists won't be persuaded by anything.

[Guest American Woman]

You'll find out quickly that there is no sense in providing some posters with citations because there isn't any source on the planet that is good enough to sway their opinion. Fierce nationalists won't be persuaded by anything.

He'll also quickly find out that some posters want the source of information to actually provide information that confirms the claim being made. Some posters are funny that way.

[ChristopherJ]

You'll find out quickly that there is no sense in providing some posters with citations because there isn't any source on the planet that is good enough to sway their opinion. Fierce nationalists won't be persuaded by anything.

Yeah, I provided her sources and she just ignored them. This is why I don't post on forums like this. It's always the most ignorant who are the loudest.

Read the ACLU link if you genuinely care about informing your opinion.

[ChristopherJ]

He'll also quickly find out that some posters want the source of information to actually provide information that confirms the claim being made. Some posters are funny that way.

I did. You're not making yourself come across as very intelligent. wow.

One more time.

http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons

Read.

[ChristopherJ]

Another article you should read if you truly care about informing your opinion:

http://www.alternet.org/cops-go-undercover-high-school-bust-special-needs-kid-pot-why-are-police-so-desperate-throw-kids?page=0%2C1&paging=off

Cops Go Undercover at High School to Bust Special-Needs Kid for Pot: Why Are Police So Desperate to Throw Kids in Jail?

[cybercoma]

Cops Go Undercover at High School to Bust Special-Needs Kid for Pot: Why Are Police So Desperate to Throw Kids in Jail?

Don't worry. The cops aren't entirely stupid. Back in 2011 a Florida school called the cops because they caught kids kissing. The cops made notes but never laid any arrests. But seriously what leads a society to the point where schools call the cops on 12 year olds kissing?