Mass Palestinian grave found in Tel Aviv

[Hudson Jones]

He's a self-proclaimed "New Historian,"

So, a historian. A professor of history. This man is considered a historian.

Glad you could confirm for me.

[Guest American Woman]

So, a historian. A professor of history. This man is considered a historian.

Glad you could confirm for me.

A self proclaimed "New Historian." I cleared that up for you - it's up to you what you do with the information.

Edited June 12, 2013 by American Woman

[Hudson Jones]

A self proclaimed "New Historian." I cleared that up for you - it's up to you what you do with the information.

Stop acting like a clown. Who cares what adjective he or anyone else puts before 'historian'.

He's a professor of history who has written over 7 books on the history of the region.

[Jeff M]

As was not the case in the Kosovo war where the mass graves of ethnic Albanians never did materialize, they did in this case. One has to wonder if it's time to send in the Nato ground troops or to bomb Tel Aviv's civilian infrastructure?

[Moonlight Graham]

Spare me the 50/50, pathetic fence sitting bull crap to try to make yourself look like some kind of a hero.

You want to feel like a man? Then, first, learn about the history of the region by getting through the whitewashing, the lies and the distortions presented by the Zionists, then, without shame, admit the truth.

What has happened in the region is a simple case of colonialism. What has followed is despair, desperation and more injustice.

I never once said anything was "50/50".

I also know that having a biased & unforgiving resentment (or a victim/aggressor narrative) for one particular side and not the other, while both groups have done horrible things, is what is preventing a lasting peace between both sides, and since I'm not playing the victim/blame game I guess that should make me a hero compared to you and many others.

[Hudson Jones]

I never once said anything was "50/50".

I also know that having a biased & unforgiving resentment (or a victim/aggressor narrative) for one particular side and not the other, while both groups have done horrible things, is what is preventing a lasting peace between both sides, and since I'm not playing the victim/blame game I guess that should make me a hero compared to you and many others.

You are still trying to play this 50/50 blame game like it is both sides that have the power to change the situation, when in reality, the ball is in Israel's court.

Israel exists. Israel has a border that has been accepted by the Palestinians. There are blue prints for peace negotiations, for example, the Arab peace initiative which calls for land swap in order to accommodate most of the Jewish settlements in the occupied territories. Israel does not want this and its actions prove this. Israel still has not formally accepted a real and just Palestinian state. They continue to annex more land and continue to prevent Palestinians from living a free life and with dignity.

What is preventing a lasting peace are the Rightwing Zionist governments who still long for Greater Israel and the people who don't have the courage to acknowledge this truth.

[Moonlight Graham]

You are still trying to play this 50/50 blame game like it is both sides that have the power to change the situation, when in reality, the ball is in Israel's court.

Israel exists. Israel has a border that has been accepted by the Palestinians. There are blue prints for peace negotiations, for example, the Arab peace initiative which calls for land swap in order to accommodate most of the Jewish settlements in the occupied territories. Israel does not want this and its actions prove this. Israel still has not formally accepted a real and just Palestinian state. They continue to annex more land and continue to prevent Palestinians from living a free life and with dignity.

What is preventing a lasting peace are the Rightwing Zionist governments who still long for Greater Israel and the people who don't have the courage to acknowledge this truth.

No, I really am not 50/50. I accept that Israel/Zionists may have been more unjust in their actions overall than Palestinians/Arabs (who are no saints either as I've mentioned). Israel may indeed have more power in reaching a deal than Palestinians do, but that doesn't mean "the ball is in their court", since both sides are needed to reach a deal and prevent more conflict. You can't tell me rockets from Gaza into Israel, terrorist activity, and people like Yasser Arafat haven't contributed to lack of peace and/or a peace deal.

The reality is that if Palestinians were to unite in not taking part in any more violence, and instead of fighting/rioting/shooting rockets etc. would partake in non-violent methods similar those of Mahatma Gandhi (mass civil disobedience, non-violent resistance etc.) they would very likely have a much better chance at getting what they want because if Israel were to begin firing on what the international community knew were peaceful, unarmed civilians, the international community (governments and civilians worldwide) would likely be compelled side with the Palestinians and denounce the Israel aggression.

Also, even if a "peace" deal is reached, violence will still continue if either side continues the "blame game" of revenge and hatred. At some point, you just have to let it go.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[jbg]

Also, even if a "peace" deal is reached, violence will still continue if either side continues the "blame game" of revenge and hatred. At some point, you just have to let it go.

Good point.

And also Israel lacks anyone with whom to sit at the table.

[Rue]

Another propaganda bite piffles into dust.

Its basic science. If you pass gas enough times people get to know you and make sure they turn the fan on and open all the windows.

Oh wait I just heard another passage.

[Hudson Jones]

No, I really am not 50/50. I accept that Israel/Zionists may have been more unjust in their actions overall than Palestinians/Arabs (who are no saints either as I've mentioned). Israel may indeed have more power in reaching a deal than Palestinians do, but that doesn't mean "the ball is in their court", since both sides are needed to reach a deal and prevent more conflict. You can't tell me rockets from Gaza into Israel, terrorist activity, and people like Yasser Arafat haven't contributed to lack of peace and/or a peace deal.

You say that, but the reality is that not only has Arafat/PLO/Fatah, all have officially accepted the state of Israel within the internationally recognized 1967 border, but Hamas has also accepted a Palestinian State based on the 1967 border. Hamas has repeated their stance a few times.

The rockets, never help. I have never condoned and pretended or claimed some of the Palestinians' responses, such as suicide bombs or the rockets by Hamas or other militant groups have been helpful.

Regarding those, it's important to note that suicide attacks started in the 90's (and haven't happened since 2008), while the occupation, annexation of land and the humiliating treatment of Palestinians has been happening since the 60's. It's also important to note that rocket attacks, are relatively new compared to the occupation.

This shows that patience, negotiations and talks with the Zionists have gone nowhere in the past several decades, because the Zionists are not willing to accept that they must let go of the vision of Greater Israel. That they must respect the human rights of the Palestinians. Their racism and superiority complex and the vision of what should happen and self-entitlement is parallel to the racist Apartheid South Africa regime.

The reality is that if Palestinians were to unite in not taking part in any more violence, and instead of fighting/rioting/shooting rockets etc.

With all the marketing and branding of Palestinians, it's difficult to notice that majority of Palestinians have been partaking in a non-violent protest against the occupation for a long time. Hundreds of non-violent protesters and leaders of these campaigns are taken to prison all the time and sometimes killed.

These non-violent protests happen frequently and in large numbers but Israel doesn't give a shit and does not respond to these tactics. The international community has already awakened to the injustices. All that is left are the Western governments and to a lesser extend, the people, such as United States, who enable for this to continue by political and financial support. This is again, similar to the Apartheid South Africa, where the Western governments were the last support for the racist regime.

Also, even if a "peace" deal is reached, violence will still continue if either side continues the "blame game" of revenge and hatred. At some point, you just have to let it go.

I will let it go once I see one of the biggest injustices, which is fully supported by our Western governments, comes to an end.