shortlived Posted March 8, 2013 Report Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) So it seems Page is going to be replaced...? Are there term limits on the posts, was he fired, or did he quit? currious "the job posting when Page landed the job but it didn’t specifyqualities like tact or discretion, and sought someone who could build“trusting and confidential relationships” with stakeholders. Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Parliamentary+Budget+Officer+vacancy+advertised/8065857/story.html#ixzz2Mv3o4800" Edited March 8, 2013 by shortlived Quote My posts are sometimes edited to create spelling errors if you see one kindly notify me. These edits do not show up as edits as my own edits do, so it is either site moderation, or third party moderation. This includes changing words completely. If a word looks out of place in a message kindly contact me so I can correct it. These changes are not exclusive to this website, and is either a form of net stalking by a malicious hacker, or perhaps government, it has been ongoing for years now.
Paradox Posted March 8, 2013 Report Posted March 8, 2013 The Parliamentary Budget Officer is appointed for a renewable term of up to five (5) years by the Governor General-in-Council, from a list of three persons recommended by a committee chaired by the Parliamentary Librarian. Mr. Page's term comes to its natural end on March 25, 2013. It has been made reasonably clear by Her Majesty's Government for Canada that, despite Mr. Page indicating that he would agree to a short extension to bridge the gap between terms, they will not be extending his term, and will instead allow the role to fall vacant. What is truly troubling about all of this is that the PBO was created by this current Government as a key plank of the Federal Accountability Act and, despite this, the Government has regularly clashed with and attempted to restrict the powers of the PBO. If a Government is going to create a role responsible for providing credible and independent budget advice and analysis, then that Government should be prepared to treat it seriously. Quote
Bryan Posted March 8, 2013 Report Posted March 8, 2013 The job is not vacant. Parliamentary librarian Sonia L'Heureux has been appointed the interim PBO until a permanent replacement is found. The jab about accountability is ridiculous. Prior to 2008 there was no such job. The only reason we know about a lot of the spending issue that have been in the news in past few years is specifically because the Conservatives created that job. Yes, the PBO has been a thorn in the government's side, that's part of the job. Quote
hitops Posted March 8, 2013 Report Posted March 8, 2013 PBO was one of the best ideas to come along in a long time from a politician. He did his job admirably and I have huge respect for his fierce objectivity and independent style even when it caused trouble for gov. Hopefully we get another one. I believe Page is the highest rates holder of public office. Quote
shortlived Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Posted March 8, 2013 The job is not vacant. Parliamentary librarian Sonia L'Heureux has been appointed the interim PBO until a permanent replacement is found. The jab about accountability is ridiculous. Prior to 2008 there was no such job. The only reason we know about a lot of the spending issue that have been in the news in past few years is specifically because the Conservatives created that job. Yes, the PBO has been a thorn in the government's side, that's part of the job. Isn't she suppose to be replaced before page is though? Quote My posts are sometimes edited to create spelling errors if you see one kindly notify me. These edits do not show up as edits as my own edits do, so it is either site moderation, or third party moderation. This includes changing words completely. If a word looks out of place in a message kindly contact me so I can correct it. These changes are not exclusive to this website, and is either a form of net stalking by a malicious hacker, or perhaps government, it has been ongoing for years now.
Argus Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 Page was a fool. The job was supposed to be investigating and reporting to parliament, but he became a media whore. I saw him on TV talk shows contradicting the government more often than the opposition. That's not his job. He provides the information to parliament. THEY, meaning the opposition, can then go on TV and criticize the government with it. I would say the next PBO should be someone who is media shy and doesn't want to be anywhere near a camera. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
shortlived Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Page was a fool. The job was supposed to be investigating and reporting to parliament, but he became a media whore. I saw him on TV talk shows contradicting the government more often than the opposition. That's not his job. He provides the information to parliament. THEY, meaning the opposition, can then go on TV and criticize the government with it. I would say the next PBO should be someone who is media shy and doesn't want to be anywhere near a camera. i disagree what good is a critic if they don't have visibility. I'd give him a daily spot on CPAC Edited March 9, 2013 by shortlived Quote My posts are sometimes edited to create spelling errors if you see one kindly notify me. These edits do not show up as edits as my own edits do, so it is either site moderation, or third party moderation. This includes changing words completely. If a word looks out of place in a message kindly contact me so I can correct it. These changes are not exclusive to this website, and is either a form of net stalking by a malicious hacker, or perhaps government, it has been ongoing for years now.
hitops Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 i disagree what good is a critic if they don't have visibility. I'd give him a daily spot on CPAC Completely agree. Budgets are important to your average voter. More visibility for the guy who checks the numbers is a good thing. Quote
Argus Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 i disagree what good is a critic if they don't have visibility. I'd give him a daily spot on CPAC He's NOT supposed to be a critic. He's supposed to be a researcher working for Parliament. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 Completely agree. Budgets are important to your average voter. More visibility for the guy who checks the numbers is a good thing. That's NOT his job. That's the Auditor General's job. HIS job is to respond to requests for information on the budget and financial matters from parliamentarians and report to them. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 That's NOT his job. That's the Auditor General's job. HIS job is to respond to requests for information on the budget and financial matters from parliamentarians and report to them. no - the PBO mandate is expressly stated within the 'Parliament of Canada Act'. 3 of 4 line items within the mandate speak to the, "PBO responding to requests (from committees or members of the House/Senate); 1 of the 4 line items speaks to providing independent analysis. HarperConservative partisans, those who didn't like Page scrutinizing HarperConservatives, might like to suggest that the independent analysis must/should relate directly/only to requests made... clearly, Page didn't see it that way. Perhaps in the next appointment, Harper will get a/the toady he and his partisans might prefer! Quote
Bryan Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 Page was a fool. The job was supposed to be investigating and reporting to parliament, but he became a media whore. I saw him on TV talk shows contradicting the government more often than the opposition. That's not his job. He provides the information to parliament. THEY, meaning the opposition, can then go on TV and criticize the government with it. I would say the next PBO should be someone who is media shy and doesn't want to be anywhere near a camera. Exactly. He didn't seem to understand that his job was to collect and verify the data, not to act as a de-facto opposition looking for "gotchas". The biggest problem was he would constantly twist the data to make it look like the govt was doing something it wasn't. The most egregious example was the F-35 situation. He tried to make it look like the govt wasn't telling the truth, when his own per numbers were the same as theirs. Well, he couldn't have that, so he just extended the timeline and reported that total. I'm surprised they didn't just fire him earlier -- they should have. Quote
PIK Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 Page ruined a good idea. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Your quote merely agrees with what I've said. His job is to provide information to and respond to queries from parliament, not go on every news show that will have him... Edited March 9, 2013 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 The biggest problem was he would constantly twist the data to make it look like the govt was doing something it wasn't. The most egregious example was the F-35 situation. He tried to make it look like the govt wasn't telling the truth, when his own per numbers were the same as theirs. Well, he couldn't have that, so he just extended the timeline and reported that total. no - your example simply demonstrates your position on Page has no credibility/foundation... much to the consternation of HarperConservatives, Page actually followed Treasury Board policy guidelines in how the F-35 numbers should be presented. HarperConservatives tried to hide costs/information... when the "cost" finally came forward, balanced against Page's numbers... and the AG's numbers... or KPMGs numbers, we certainly see the HarperConservatives low-ball attempt. But, of course, Page was first - he certainly got the ball rolling in the right direction! feel free to show your expressed "sameness" of numbers. I'm particularly interested in what per plane acquisition cost you'll use... if you can provide one, even a low-balled one, you'll be a step ahead of MLW member, 'Derek L', who has an extreme aversion to putting himself out there and actually offering/supporting his own estimate/swag on procurement costing. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 That's NOT his job. That's the Auditor General's job. HIS job is to respond to requests for information on the budget and financial matters from parliamentarians and report to them. That's your opinion. How about some actual facts about the mandate of the PBO The mandate of the Parliamentary Budget Officer is to provide independent analysis to Parliament on the state of the nation's finances, the government's estimates and trends in the Canadian economy; and upon request from a committee or parliamentarian, to estimate the financial cost of any proposal for matters over which Parliament has jurisdiction. Sees like a pretty broad mandate to me. Harper was all about accountability and transparency when he was in opposition - what happened. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 Page was a fool. The job was supposed to be investigating and reporting to parliament, but he became a media whore. I saw him on TV talk shows contradicting the government more often than the opposition. That's not his job. He provides the information to parliament. THEY, meaning the opposition, can then go on TV and criticize the government with it. I would say the next PBO should be someone who is media shy and doesn't want to be anywhere near a camera. Translation. Page wouldn't kiss Harper's ass and be his fig leaf. Harper campaigned on accountability but his actual performance shows that he is more of a control freak than any of his predecessors. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 PBO was one of the best ideas to come along in a long time from a politician. He did his job admirably and I have huge respect for his fierce objectivity and independent style even when it caused trouble for gov. Hopefully we get another one. I believe Page is the highest rates holder of public office. Yes, he was the new Sheila Fraser. It's a pity that Canadians are so apathetic - most of them won't even notice Harper replacing Page with a lap dog more to his liking. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 He's NOT supposed to be a critic. He's supposed to be a researcher working for Parliament. He's supposed to be a watchdog. Watchdogs are sorely needed as the government is out of control. You wouldn't be whining about him if he were publicly shouting Harper's praises. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
waldo Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Your quote merely agrees with what I've said. His job is to provide information to and respond to queries from parliament, not go on every news show that will have him... that's just the way you prefer to read/interpret the PBO mandate... I personally read it differently... as did PBO page. The mandate is one thing - a detailed job description another: Full Text of the PBO Job Description ... there's a chance we won't agree on the latitude available to the PBO within that job description. Of course, as I expect you well know, if there's already a person in mind to fill the vacancy, the intricacies of the job description won't really mean much. I anticipate HarperConservatives will get the person... they want... this time - and we won't see the critical eye of another Kevin Page anytime soon. (I had a quick look for the job description Page has been working under... couldn't find it - it might be interesting to compare it to this new one for the vacant position) Edited March 9, 2013 by waldo Quote
ReeferMadness Posted March 9, 2013 Report Posted March 9, 2013 I've taken the liberty to write a ad that describes what the Conservatives (and their uncritical camp-followers, some of whom are here) are really looking for: Wanted: political hack with neo-conservative background to project patina of respectability to morally bankrupt government. Must maintain semblance of objectivity while never seriously questioning government on anything. May occasionally disagree with government on minor points to maintain veneer of independence. Willingness to sell out principles in exchange for future plum patronage appointment an asset. Ability to parrot government lines on key programs a must. Send resume in confidence to Chairman Mao Harper Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
shortlived Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) He's NOT supposed to be a critic. He's supposed to be a researcher working for Parliament. Ok how is he not? The PBO is a critic, that is the whole premise of the accountability act, to have a counter weight to parliament to provide independent insight, not to only research facts for parliament look at the accountability act and come back with some clarity on what you are talking about. Through the Federal Accountability Act and Action Plan, the Government of Canada brought forward specific measures to help strengthen accountability and increase transparency and oversight in government operations. Why is it that government needs to operate in secret on matters of public interest? What exactly are you trying to hide from Canadians, and why? It is clearly indicated that the PBO is to serve both Parliament AND CANADIANS. --- if you don't believe this say but it is well documented. This MacLeans article is only one point of reference of this fact The parliamentary budget officer has a broad legislative mandate and a relatively modest budget to serve Parliament and Canadians – an issue parliamentarians may wish to address. A recent report by the parliamentary operations and estimates committee in June made a number of recommendations to strengthen the estimates system by allowing the budget officer to provide analytical support to help members of Parliament scrutinize the numbers. The issue playing out today with the government and deputy ministers relates to ensuring members of Parliament have sufficient financial information to carry out their fiduciary responsibilities before approval of departmental and agency spending authorities… http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/02/24/toward-a-stronger-parliamentary-budget-officer/ That is a statement echoed in government literature. It seems odd that when the auditor general and PBO start to inform parliament and Canadians of lies on the part of the government that the government wants them muzzled, strange isn't it? Wonder why that is? Why is it Argus you want government invovlement with Canadians confined to paper and QP?That is sort of a gov tied very closely to dumping of stuff of little value. see also http://www.parl.gc.ca/PBO-DPB/documents/2009-05-14_Statement_to_BILI.pdf http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=3993042&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=40&Ses=2&File=18 http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/oag-bvg_e_35345.html http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=5045004&Language=E&Mode=1 and so on... all to serve Canadians not just give a hand to parliament. Although page does seem incline to say he was serving "tax payers" as opposed to all Canadians. Edited March 10, 2013 by shortlived Quote My posts are sometimes edited to create spelling errors if you see one kindly notify me. These edits do not show up as edits as my own edits do, so it is either site moderation, or third party moderation. This includes changing words completely. If a word looks out of place in a message kindly contact me so I can correct it. These changes are not exclusive to this website, and is either a form of net stalking by a malicious hacker, or perhaps government, it has been ongoing for years now.
hitops Posted March 10, 2013 Report Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) That's NOT his job. That's the Auditor General's job. HIS job is to respond to requests for information on the budget and financial matters from parliamentarians and report to them. That IS part of his job in fact. To independently report on the government's estimates is expressly listed on the PBO website. Fortunately for the sake of taxpayers, the job does not further include hiding those numbers once they have been obtained. The government gave estimates. Page independently said the numbers were wrong. The media was interested. This is not a startling series of events. I voted conservative and am happy with the general trajectory of the economy under them. However, they clearly have drawbacks when it comes to estimating various costs in their favor. It's good that Page was there, and nothing wrong with the rest of us knowing about it. It sucks for them now, but is good in the long run because if left to continue it would eventually be revealed anyway and probably blow up on them. Page might spare them that massive blowback like they suffered after Mulroney. Edited March 10, 2013 by hitops Quote
ReeferMadness Posted March 10, 2013 Report Posted March 10, 2013 Page ruined a good idea. Assuming the good idea was to pay a parliamentary officer to parrot Harper's talking points, you're absolutely right! Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Argus Posted March 10, 2013 Report Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) That IS part of his job in fact. To independently report on the government's estimates is expressly listed on the PBO website. Fortunately for the sake of taxpayers, the job does not further include hiding those numbers once they have been obtained. The government gave estimates. Page independently said the numbers were wrong. The media was interested. This is not a startling series of events. No, it's not, and I'm in favour of having a more independent view on government numbers. But the job of the PBO should be to provide his numbers to parliamentarians and then let them do with the numbers as they choose. If someone is going to be on TV waving numbers around that contradict that of the government it should be opposition MPs. That's what they're there for. The PBO should not be on television panels discussing how much he disagrees with the government. He is, after all, a public servant. In setting himself up as a critic of government he's set up the government as a hostile entity which has gone on to do everything they can to frustrate his ability to collect information. Edited March 10, 2013 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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