Australian Islamists convicted of carrying out sharia punishment

[Canuckistani]

Really? Didn't you say yourself one tried to run you down. Then there was the case of the Hassids pushign to have the windows of the YWCA covered up - thankfully reversed. Or of wanting to run special buses that conflict with the law - thankfully not allowed. Then take a look at Israel and how much the Hassids push people around, harrass women etc.

One law for all. Or if you make expemptions for one group, you make it for all.

[Chris+]

Really? Didn't you say yourself one tried to run you down. Then there was the case of the Hassids pushign to have the windows of the YWCA covered up - thankfully reversed. Or of wanting to run special buses that conflict with the law - thankfully not allowed. Then take a look at Israel and how much the Hassids push people around, harrass women etc.

One law for all. Or if you make expemptions for one group, you make it for all.

Yes, I am aware of this story at the Mile End YMCA and lived in Montreal at the time.

I can't say for certain if he was trying to run me down

I have no problem ending this right, though I dont' think it is needed nor advisable.

Muslims live in the heart of Israel in peace, while Christians and others can hardly exist in Muslim countries.

Jews have already been ethnically cleansed from the Islamic world.

That is why I have no problem personally with Jewish law, even with the few Haredi radicals, as opposed to sharia law which I feel is totally criminal, draconian, barbaric, and has no place at all in Canada.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Chris+

[GostHacked]

Sharia Law or some Muslim law court was wanted by some Muslims in Canada. Ontario supreme court said NO and removed the Jewish family courts as well in all fairness. We have ONE system for all Canadians.

[Michael Hardner]

Sharia Law or some Muslim law court was wanted by some Muslims in Canada. Ontario supreme court said NO and removed the Jewish family courts as well in all fairness. We have ONE system for all Canadians.

Your encapsulation of what happened is wrong - it was already law when people raised concerns, and it was McGuinty who dropped it not the courts.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/2010/09/14/one_law_for_all_ontarians.html

[Michael Hardner]

We may have to make it clear the Islamic sharia is not like other religions.

Jews are also not seeking to force their ways upon us, while Islam is expansionist.

Well, you're off on the wrong foot seeing as how Christianity is a declared expansionist religion.

The prescriptions of ancient holy books are all at odds with a civilized society, but we allow religion because they generally don't take these prescriptions literally.

[GostHacked]

Your encapsulation of what happened is wrong - it was already law when people raised concerns, and it was McGuinty who dropped it not the courts.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/2010/09/14/one_law_for_all_ontarians.html

Either way, both are gone and for the better.

[Canuckistani]

What about Quebec? We need to get rid of all this religous stuff in our public system. No more funding for religious schools. No exemptions for Sikhs from motorcycle helmet and hardhat rules. Etc.

[Rue]

We already have the same thing for Orthodox Jews. Seems discriminatory to not allow it for Muslims. Either for all, or for none.

What are you referring to. Do you even know? No rabbinical court in Canada can opt out of the federal criminal code or the applicable province's family laws or the federal divorce act. You are absolutely wrong.

Any ruling a Rabbinical court makes is subject to conforming with federal or provincial laws. No you can not opt out of them. You are absolutely wrong.

Would you stop making references to a subject you clearly know nothing about.

Christian, Muslim, jewish and other religions are free to marry people in their ceremonies and engage in private religious councils to deal with matters on a voluntary basis and always have been.

What you failed to grasp is the people who wanted Sharia Law to prevail wanted it to prevail over, that is to say replace existing provincial and federal laws, and this Jew and many other Canadians, Jews, Muslims, Christians and others spoke out against it for the same reasons-we do not believe any one's religion should allow them to opt out of Canadian laws. Its not some boufet where you select the laws you want and ignore the ones you don't.

Stop misquoting how Judaism or other religions operate.

The minority of Muslims and for that matter other religious orthodox fundamentalists who wanted these opt out clauses approached the left community who jumped on the bandwagon. I should know I was at many of the meetings listening to leftist anti Zionists suddenly start extolling the virtues of Sharia law and claiming Jews wanted it too.

Give me a break.

[Canuckistani]

I was responding to this comment:

Some countries, such as the UK, have allowed the sharia-law to co-exist with the national law in civil matters such as divorce or inheritance. There couldn't be a bigger mistake than allowing that to happen. Any country which claims to be secular must adhere to the principle that no religious laws are given any preference in any case.

Besides, when the sharia-law is applied to the muslim-community where there are a lot of muslims, it has been emphasized that applying the sharia-law is completely voluntary. Do they really think it is voluntary for a muslim living in a muslim-neighborhood?

divorce and inheritance. AFAIK, that's what the rabbinical courts also covered. I don't agree with having any of these religious courts.

[guyser]

Would you stop making references to a subject you clearly know nothing about.

You and your pompous rants are now funny! Thanks

And by the way this...

What you failed to grasp is the people who wanted Sharia Law to prevail wanted it to prevail over

....can be answered with your own words....

WhatYou are absolutely wrong.

Would you stop making references to a subject you clearly know nothing about.

Mumtaz Ali, who started down this road trying to get Sharia imposed was....gasp.....only for civil matters.

Psssst...hes a lawyer and knew enough that Criminal LAw et al are a no go.

Too bad , pomposity did you in again.

[Canuckistani]

I think it's more racism than just pomposity. Jews good, Muslims bad, even when they want the same thing.

[Peanutbutter]

I see. So anytime a Muslim is accused of something it's racism. The Muslim is always totally innocent and has never done anything wrong. I got it, thank you for setting me straight...Same thing always happens when a Muslim commits an honour killing, all the leftists deny it ever happened. Absurd.

[guyser]

I see. So anytime a Muslim is accused of something it's racism. The Muslim is always totally innocent and has never done anything wrong. I got it, thank you for setting me straight...Same thing always happens when a Muslim commits an honour killing, all the leftists deny it ever happened. Absurd.

Let me guess...nutty peanutb utter right?

No one said, is saying, did say, anything as you ascribe above.

The only bs thrown around this issue is rue and his own brand of anti muslim rhetoric.

[Canuckistani]

I see. So anytime a Muslim is accused of something it's racism. The Muslim is always totally innocent and has never done anything wrong. I got it, thank you for setting me straight...Same thing always happens when a Muslim commits an honour killing, all the leftists deny it ever happened. Absurd.

I agree. Your post is totally absurd. From the list of fallacious arguments, you seem to have partaken freely. Red herrings, strawmen, reductio ad absurdum....

[Chris+]

Well, you're off on the wrong foot seeing as how Christianity is a declared expansionist religion.

The prescriptions of ancient holy books are all at odds with a civilized society, but we allow religion because they generally don't take these prescriptions literally.

There is one religion that does take these prescriptions literally, that is Islam. That is the underlying problem.

[Signals.Cpl]

Let me guess...nutty peanutb utter right?

No one said, is saying, did say, anything as you ascribe above.

The only bs thrown around this issue is rue and his own brand of anti muslim rhetoric.

Wasn't someone on this board afraid of being beheaded by a muslim?

[Peter F]

Sharia Law or some Muslim law court was wanted by some Muslims in Canada. Ontario supreme court said NO and removed the Jewish family courts as well in all fairness. We have ONE system for all Canadians.

except for Quebec which has Quebec Civil law. And it wasnt Sharia Law courts that was proposed but Sharia arbitration .

[Michael Hardner]

There is one religion that does take these prescriptions literally, that is Islam. That is the underlying problem.

No, there are fundamentalists in every religion. You would have to separate other factors (culture, local factors) from the influence of the religion itself in order to prove your point.

[Argus]

Nice red herring, enjoy your lunch. Or read the above posts.

You can't really compare the two. The Jews have long been westernized, and are not violent. The Muslims are all immigrants, and their punishements for any wrongdoing invariably seem to include violence.

[Argus]

Well, you're off on the wrong foot seeing as how Christianity is a declared expansionist religion.

The prescriptions of ancient holy books are all at odds with a civilized society, but we allow religion because they generally don't take these prescriptions literally.

Except the Muslims.

[Argus]

I think it's more racism than just pomposity. Jews good, Muslims bad, even when they want the same thing.

It has nothing to do with racism. Why is is the people who throw that word around so much seem to know so little about what it describes?

There is no Muslim race, nor a Jewish race. They are religions. And the distinction most make here in Canada is that the vast majority of Jews are westernized and their rulings on laws are informed by this. The vast majority of Muslims come from culturally backward nations, and their laws reflect this. The lack of education among Muslim women (almost all immigrants) results in ignorance of their options, and the severe level of misogyny in the Muslim community means they would face overwhelming pressure to abide by the rulings of a Sharia court rather than opting for a civil court.

[Argus]

No, there are fundamentalists in every religion. You would have to separate other factors (culture, local factors) from the influence of the religion itself in order to prove your point.

Don't equate religions. A 'fanatic' Christian in Canada is one who doesn't think gays should marry. A 'fanatic' Muslim in Canada thinks all gays should be immediately executed. There is a vast difference, in other words, of tolerance of behaviour which flies in the face of social and religious norms.

We tend to think of religious fanatics along the lines of those who take their religious books most seriously, or at least, an interpretation of those books. By almost any measure, the Muslim community in Canada is far more 'fanatical' in its adherence to the tenets of its religion than Christians or Jews. In fact, it's no unfair to suggest that by our largely secular standards most Muslims are 'fanatics'. Certainly that's true of those in the middle east, and most of our Muslims come from there.

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/03/09/muslim-mob-torches-christian-homes-in-pakistan-after-reports-man-committed-blasphemy/

Edited March 10, 2013 by Argus

[Canuckistani]

It has nothing to do with racism. Why is is the people who throw that word around so much seem to know so little about what it describes?

There is no Muslim race, nor a Jewish race. They are religions. And the distinction most make here in Canada is that the vast majority of Jews are westernized and their rulings on laws are informed by this. The vast majority of Muslims come from culturally backward nations, and their laws reflect this. The lack of education among Muslim women (almost all immigrants) results in ignorance of their options, and the severe level of misogyny in the Muslim community means they would face overwhelming pressure to abide by the rulings of a Sharia court rather than opting for a civil court.

The usual canard. Rue loves to call people anti-semites - thats calling them racists, but you use weasel words when the shoe is on the other foot.

You usually make well thought out posts, but are you saying that the ultra-orthodox Jews who would use Rabbinical courts are westernized and liberated in their attitudes towards women? that their women would not feel pressured to agree to use Rabbincal courts? Give your head a shake.

Are you seriously going to have laws that say Jews good, so religious courts settling divorce and inheritance courts for them, but Muslims bad, so none for them. Are we really going to walk down that road?

[jbg]

The real crime here from my perspective wasn't drinking or doing drugs, but joining the wrong club (Wahabism). He knew what he was getting involved in, if you want to play the game then play by the rules. I am guessing now that Mr. Martinez (the victim) claims he is still a believer because he knows what the sharia punishment will be should he revert (apostasy), death.

It makes me wonder if this type of behavior is occurring in Canada. In my mind it must be. Canada has around a million Muslims some of them must be getting whipped.

My view is that if these "people" want to live in free countries they have to respect the freedom of their co-religionists. There must be consequences for this kind of activity. Where possible, deportation, when not possible, lengthy prison terms.

[Canuckistani]

My view is that if these "people" want to live in free countries they have to respect the freedom of their co-religionists. There must be consequences for this kind of activity. Where possible, deportation, when not possible, lengthy prison terms.

They should get exactly the same sentence as anybody else convicted of the same crime. The reason they whipped their victim doesn't matter, nor should your hate of Muslims be allowed to influence the sentence. There is no law against being Muslim.

They should be deoported, if eligible for it. We allow way too many people to stay in Canada after being convicted of serious crimes. Again, has nothing to do with their religion, but what crime they committed.