Recreational shooting and firearms collecting thread

[Guest Derek L]

The main limitation to a typical hobbiest railgun is the amount of energy that can be dumped through the rails. A typical hobbyist will be working with some low voltage capacitors that can store at most a few hundred Joules of energy. The low voltage means that the current they can get through the rails is limited, which limits the total amount of energy that can go in the projectile. Fortunately, I have a $20,000 high voltage 50 kJ cap bank at work that I can play with

The actual railgun itself is fairly simple and cheap to build compared to the capacitor bank, power supply required to charge it, and switch to short the cap bank across the rails without getting destroyed due to the high currents.

A simple railgun is precisely 50% efficient in accelerating a projectile (half the capacitor bank energy that is dumped through the rails goes into the kinetic energy of the projectile). For a 0.05 kg projectile (about the mass of a bullet), you can figure out how quickly it will go out of the railgun:

0.5 E = 0.5 mV^2

where E is the cap bank energy, m is the projectile mass, and V is the velocity the projectile reaches. In this case, a 50 kJ cap bank will accelerate a 50 gram bullet to ~1,000 m/s (about Mach 3). This doesn't take into account losses due to air resistance, friction, etc. Based on my empirical test of the system, I got about Mach 2 instead, and the differences is due to the above mentioned losses. My projectile was a very simple metal cylinder with two "wings" sticking out of it to lie on the rails.

The US military does significant research on railguns, with some efforts approaching deployment readiness. The advantage of railguns is you can achieve projectile velocities substantially higher than chemical explosive driven projectiles. Military railguns can achieve around Mach 10 muzzle velocity. Here's a photo of a military railgun test in 2008:

For one of the proposed largest customers, having a working concept and being able to incorporate said railgun into a hull is what will be the challenge, namely for financial reasons, since it will require a new design incorporating a stark increase in power generation……………

Several years ago it was even proposed that the navy return to nuclear power generation for at least a portion of the Ticonderoga class replacement………Aside from energy requirements for propulsion and hotel load, a modern nuclear plant would also generate enough power for railguns and any future laser incorporated into the BMD mission profile of said future cruisers……….

As it stands now, the Ticos will be replaced by flight III Burkes, a rather mature design that couldn’t sustain a rail gun/laser, as such the USN is still developing “smart rounds” centered around the USA Army (and we also use them) Excalibur system………With the intent of being able to use such rounds through the Navies current 5” guns with little or no modification.

With all that being said, if you don’t already know about it, checkout EMALS………That will be installed on the new Ford class CVN, and very likely retrofitted to the younger Nimitz class……..

[kimmy]

So I got a couple of packages of "the expensive stuff"-- 20 rounds of Barnaul 123gr FMJ for the SKS , and 20 rounds of MFS 203gr SP for the SVT40. Not as economical as crates of surplus... but I didn't want to buy a crate of surplus until I've at least verified that the guns actually function. I think I might go out in the woods tomorrow and give it a go. Watch out, milk bottles!

Spent the morning practicing loading and unloading with stripper clips. The stripper clips for the 7.62x54r ammo work *much* nicer than the SKS stripper clips. The SKS clips seem to bind a lot and you really have to fight with them to get the bullets to slide. I thought the rimmed ammo would be harder to deal with, but it seems that the reverse is true. I think the difference is that the 7.62x54r clips have "walls" that keep the bullets from tilting left-right while they're being fed, which makes them bind less. The 7.62x39 clips just grab the base, which lets the bullets tilt to the side and bind against the rails. There might be a better design for these.

-k

[MiddleClassCentrist]

^{How effective is an air horn at scaring the beasts away?}

^{I'm just curious, since it seems to be a concern of yours. And scare seems to just be firing off the shot for loudness, not aiming to kill.}

Like, if I was camping up north where the more risky critters are. Southern Ontario is quite tame.

I'm not arguing against guns, just alternatives for someone, like myself, who doesn't intend on getting one any time too soon... though if I feel an impending apocalypse is coming... I'll stock up.

[Guest Derek L]

^{How effective is an air horn at scaring the beasts away?}

^{I'm just curious, since it seems to be a concern of yours. And scare seems to just be firing off the shot for loudness, not aiming to kill.}

Like, if I was camping up north where the more risky critters are. Southern Ontario is quite tame.

I'm not arguing against guns, just alternatives for someone, like myself, who doesn't intend on getting one any time too soon... though if I feel an impending apocalypse is coming... I'll stock up.

Best way to describe it………..Black Bear poop is full of berries, well Grizzly Bear poop is full of whistles, bells and smells like pepper………..I doubt you’ll run into any Grizzly Bears in Northern Ontario, but Polar Bears can be found if you go far enough, and even with the smaller Black Bears (still can get up to 500 lbs) they tend to be more aggressive then grizzly’s………………

I would say that if you’re going into the bush with an air horn as your bear defence plan, just ensure you’re not the slowest sprinter in your group and you should be fine……………Then there’s Cougars……..An air horn will just piss it off…………don’t run or turn your back on a cougar, most survivors of cougar attacks have fought them off and survived…………You can try and fight one with a stick or something, but I’d much rather put a foster slug through one if needed…….

[Guest Derek L]

So I got a couple of packages of "the expensive stuff"-- 20 rounds of Barnaul 123gr FMJ for the SKS , and 20 rounds of MFS 203gr SP for the SVT40. Not as economical as crates of surplus... but I didn't want to buy a crate of surplus until I've at least verified that the guns actually function. I think I might go out in the woods tomorrow and give it a go. Watch out, milk bottles!

Good idea………They should work if you’ve been using snap caps and the guns seem to cycle and when you pull the trigger you hear the crack…………Have fun, and you’ll quickly realise that forty rounds go quick…………..Then why you need multiple guns in .22lr

Have fun and be safe

Spent the morning practicing loading and unloading with stripper clips. The stripper clips for the 7.62x54r ammo work *much* nicer than the SKS stripper clips. The SKS clips seem to bind a lot and you really have to fight with them to get the bullets to slide. I thought the rimmed ammo would be harder to deal with, but it seems that the reverse is true. I think the difference is that the 7.62x54r clips have "walls" that keep the bullets from tilting left-right while they're being fed, which makes them bind less. The 7.62x39 clips just grab the base, which lets the bullets tilt to the side and bind against the rails. There might be a better design for these.

-k

Are they aftermarket stripper clips? Are they new and painted? If so, there might be a little too much paint under one of the lips, and with use, they will wear in..............

But when all else fails, buy Milsurp.

[The_Squid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RED_DosPZsc

[kimmy]

This video should be mandatory viewing for people during the CFSC.

Telling people "if your gun misfires, point it someplace safe and wait 60 seconds because the bullet might still detonate" but nothing makes the point quite like seeing a guy almost get his head blown off by a delayed detonation.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

This video should be mandatory viewing for people during the CFSC.

Telling people "if your gun misfires, point it someplace safe and wait 60 seconds because the bullet might still detonate" but nothing makes the point quite like seeing a guy almost get his head blown off by a delayed detonation.

-k

In all those cases, Jeff Cooper's Golden Rules were not followed:

ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY

KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

If said rules are followed, there would never be a gun accident.

So how did you make out today? Did you learn those milk bottles good sum?

Edited January 28, 2013 by Derek L

[kimmy]

Sadly, wasn't able to get out and slaughter milk-bottles yesterday. Real life intruded.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

Sadly, wasn't able to get out and slaughter milk-bottles yesterday. Real life intruded.

-k

Too bad..........between now and next weekend, their numbers will surely increase........be prepared!!!

[kimmy]

Too bad..........between now and next weekend, their numbers will surely increase........be prepared!!!

I will be ready for them, now that I have my brand new...

...Marlin Model 60SS!

The laminate is extremely nice and very attractive. The stainless steel barrel is surprisingly thick, like some of those heavy-barrel or "target" rifles around. It's a very nice size and weight. It's actually just a bit smaller than my SKS in both length and weight, which is fine. I find it very pointable and easy to handle. I see no issues with fit and finish, other than that the screws that hold the receiver in the stock were loose when I unboxed it (not a problem, since I disassembled the whole thing anyway.)

I like everything about it, except that the trigger group isn't metal, it's synthetic. Not sure why they did that, other than to save a few bucks. I don't think the durability will be an issue, but it detracts from what otherwise seems like a high-quality product.

I operated the action with the stock removed just so I could see how it works. It's a simple and elegant mechanism, just like my Soviet guns. Unlike the Soviet guns, I think there's a couple of parts that I anticipate will wear out eventually. The extractor mechanism is just a pair of metal clips that grab the rim from each side and I could see those wearing down eventually, whereas the corresponding mechanism in my Russian rifles is made of heavy machined-steel parts that should last forever. This is the third semi-automatic action I've been able to study and play with, and I think I could probably design my own. The tubular magazine is kind of nice. I made some "speed loaders" with some drinking straws I got at Taco Time. Instead of sliding the tube back part way and using the slot, I'll just take it out completely and drop a straw-full of bullets in.

This is the first "new" gun I've purchased, and aside from the rifle itself, the box also came with:

-a safety lock (a super-effective design that basically puts a thick metal bar right into the ejector port)

-a manual

-an NRA membership application ($10 off. Membership has benefits, like an insurance plan, discounts at hotels and motels, and if I BUY! NOW! I also get an official NRA Bullet Pen, a ballpoint pen made out of .308 cartridge casings. )

-and a "Trigger The Vote!" poster featuring Chuck Norris, who is here to remind me that a gun isn't enough to defend my rights... I need to register to vote. Thanks, Chuck, but no need to worry.

-k

Edited February 1, 2013 by kimmy

[The_Squid]

I doubt NRA insurance would provide coverage in Canada.

[kimmy]

Yeah, I wouldn't give the mooks at NRA any money even if I was in the US.

And Chuck Norris is a Christian Dominionist theofascist and I'll probably use his "Trigger the Vote!" poster as target practice.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

I doubt NRA insurance would provide coverage in Canada.

Then you would be wrong……….NRA ArmsCare insurance is good in Canada………..And the insurance provided by my gun club also covers the United States.

[Guest Derek L]

I will be ready for them, now that I have my brand new...

...Marlin Model 60SS!

The laminate is extremely nice and very attractive. The stainless steel barrel is surprisingly thick, like some of those heavy-barrel or "target" rifles around. It's a very nice size and weight. It's actually just a bit smaller than my SKS in both length and weight, which is fine. I find it very pointable and easy to handle. I see no issues with fit and finish, other than that the screws that hold the receiver in the stock were loose when I unboxed it (not a problem, since I disassembled the whole thing anyway.)

I like everything about it, except that the trigger group isn't metal, it's synthetic. Not sure why they did that, other than to save a few bucks. I don't think the durability will be an issue, but it detracts from what otherwise seems like a high-quality product.

I operated the action with the stock removed just so I could see how it works. It's a simple and elegant mechanism, just like my Soviet guns. Unlike the Soviet guns, I think there's a couple of parts that I anticipate will wear out eventually. The extractor mechanism is just a pair of metal clips that grab the rim from each side and I could see those wearing down eventually, whereas the corresponding mechanism in my Russian rifles is made of heavy machined-steel parts that should last forever. This is the third semi-automatic action I've been able to study and play with, and I think I could probably design my own. The tubular magazine is kind of nice. I made some "speed loaders" with some drinking straws I got at Taco Time. Instead of sliding the tube back part way and using the slot, I'll just take it out completely and drop a straw-full of bullets in.

This is the first "new" gun I've purchased, and aside from the rifle itself, the box also came with:

-a safety lock (a super-effective design that basically puts a thick metal bar right into the ejector port)

-a manual

-an NRA membership application ($10 off. Membership has benefits, like an insurance plan, discounts at hotels and motels, and if I BUY! NOW! I also get an official NRA Bullet Pen, a ballpoint pen made out of .308 cartridge casings. )

-and a "Trigger The Vote!" poster featuring Chuck Norris, who is here to remind me that a gun isn't enough to defend my rights... I need to register to vote. Thanks, Chuck, but no need to worry.

-k

Does it have a tube or box magazine?

Looks good though………..

[kimmy]

Does it have a tube or box magazine?

Looks good though………..

14 shot tube magazine-- more than 14 if I used 22 short. I'm looking forward to using it to fight the zombie milk-jug apocalypse. Won't be this weekend, though, as my jet-setting lifestyle has once again called me out of town.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

14 shot tube magazine-- more than 14 if I used 22 short. I'm looking forward to using it to fight the zombie milk-jug apocalypse. Won't be this weekend, though, as my jet-setting lifestyle has once again called me out of town.

-k

Does it cycle and feed shorts? I’d be very surprised, since it’s a blowback semi-auto……..Using them would be safe though, at worse, it will just jam……….It just becomes a single shot rifle.

And one more question, does it have a manual bolt hold that works by pushing the charging handle inwards when fully open? I ask since my Marlin M989 M1 carbine works the same way.

[The_Squid]

Yeah, I wouldn't give the mooks at NRA any money even if I was in the US.

And Chuck Norris is a Christian Dominionist theofascist and I'll probably use his "Trigger the Vote!" poster as target practice.

-k

Apparently, it is good in Canada, but I can appreciate your stance. They're a bunch of scumbags.

[kimmy]

Does it cycle and feed shorts? I’d be very surprised, since it’s a blowback semi-auto……..Using them would be safe though, at worse, it will just jam……….It just becomes a single shot rifle.

It can shoot shorts, but the manual recommends against using them because they might not feed properly. I suspect for the reason you mention.

And one more question, does it have a manual bolt hold that works by pushing the charging handle inwards when fully open? I ask since my Marlin M989 M1 carbine works the same way.

It does indeed have that feature. What's the benefit? When would somebody want to do that?

-k

[Guest Derek L]

It can shoot shorts, but the manual recommends against using them because they might not feed properly. I suspect for the reason you mention.

Yeah shorts tend to feed fine in a lever or bolt action repeater (Or Revolvers)………Just the nature of the semi-auto beast.

It does indeed have that feature. What's the benefit? When would somebody want to do that?

-k

Cleaning or a ceasefire at most ranges where the range officer likes to see an open action, with the gun on the table with the barrel facing downrange…………..And for Kimmy to try and feed shorts one at a time

The recent used Ruger 10/22 I picked up has a custom trigger with a bolt hold button between the trigger guard and Mag release………A feature missing on 10/22 and most other Rimfire semi-autos.

[kimmy]

Yeah shorts tend to feed fine in a lever or bolt action repeater (Or Revolvers)………Just the nature of the semi-auto beast.

I should just need to rack it after each shot, right? As in it should work basically like a bolt-action?

Cleaning or a ceasefire at most ranges where the range officer likes to see an open action, with the gun on the table with the barrel facing downrange…………..And for Kimmy to try and feed shorts one at a time

It also has a last-shot hold-open, which should be good enough for the range officer. It's not as handy as the last-shot hold-open on my battle rifles though, because with those when I've loaded it I can just pull the bolt back and it'll chamber a round right away. Whereas with the Model 60, it holds open, then you load it, then you have to press the Bolt Close button which closes the bolt but doesn't chamber a round so you have to rack it anyway.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

I should just need to rack it after each shot, right? As in it should work basically like a bolt-action?

I doubt it would feed a follow on round……….With that said, aside from shotguns, I don’t have that much experience with tube fed semi-autos…………It wouldn't hurt trying.

It also has a last-shot hold-open, which should be good enough for the range officer. It's not as handy as the last-shot hold-open on my battle rifles though, because with those when I've loaded it I can just pull the bolt back and it'll chamber a round right away. Whereas with the Model 60, it holds open, then you load it, then you have to press the Bolt Close button which closes the bolt but doesn't chamber a round so you have to rack it anyway.

-k

That sounds slightly different from my old Marlin, which is only manual……………Another reason for such a feature is to prevent dry firing the gun………..It sounds similar to the bolt hold on my Ruger mkII……I can remember the swear words my father would invent if my brother and I dry fired his Ruger mk I…….

[kimmy]

Komrades! When they speak of the day that the vile Nazis zombies milk-jugs came to the mountains of British Columbia, they will say that Patriot Kimmy was there to greet them... with Soviet lead!! A great victory for the people was achieved, fellow workers!

This morning I went snowshoeing off into the woods with all 3 guns strapped to my back and some milk-jugs to shoot. The Soviet guns both worked flawlessly!

I started with the SKS, and I loaded just one round and racked it carefully, just to make sure it didn't slam-fire or anything like that. Worked as advertised. I hit the jug on the first shot, which I was pretty proud of considering I was wearing snow-shoes and was pretty exhausted from all the carrying. I loaded a couple more rounds and hit the jug with both of them, and they cycled and ejected perfectly.

I was pretty excited about how well the SKS worked, and I moved on to the SVT-40. I proceeded cautiously, as with the SKS, because I was again concerned with the possibility of a slam-fire or accidentally going "full auto". I was glad that I started with the SKS, because if I had started with the SVT-40, I would have had nothing left to shoot. The SKS ventilated and crushed the jugs pretty good... but the SVT-40 shredded them. Literally. First shot with the SVT-40 was ... a miss, but the gun worked properly, so I loaded 2 more shots. Second shot, I hit the jug and it exploded and was literally ripped in half. Since that jug was no longer a viable target, I turned to the one that I'd been shooting with the SKS. I hit it, too, and it tore open and flew about 10 feet into the air. When I inspected the jugs, I found the 3 bullet holes left by the SKS in the one jug. The SVT-40 didn't leave any bullet holes; the jugs were just shredded as if claws had stabbed into them and ripped them apart. That gun is holy-shit awesome.

I was surprised at how loud the SKS is. I had heard that the SVT-40 is incredibly loud, but to me it seemed like the SKS is at least as loud. Or perhaps by the time I started shooting the SVT-40, my ears were already too desensitized to compare. Anyway, they're both hella-loud, and I was glad I did have ear plugs.

I had a couple of jugs left to shoot, so I loaded up the Marlin 60 and went to work. It also worked flawlessly, just as you'd hope for from a brand new gun. No complaints about it at all, other than that after the SVT-40, it was awfully anticlimactic. Neither jug was crushed or shredded, though both were quite ventilated by the time I finished with them.

My shooting needs plenty of practice. From a distance of about 15 yards I was 3/3 with the SKS, 2/3 with the SVT-40, and 15 or 16 out of 20 with the Marlin. I think that's probably not bad for a complete beginner wearing snowshoes who'd just carried 40 pounds of water and 20 pounds of guns a kilometer in fresh snow.

The guns are all cleaned and locked back in the cabinet. I'm really happy about how well they worked, especially the SVT-40. I mostly wanted it for historical interest and as a part of the collection, and given the gun's reputation for fickleness and the condition it was in when I received it, I wasn't confident that it was going to be very good. But it's just a delight.

I doubt it would feed a follow on round……….With that said, aside from shotguns, I don’t have that much experience with tube fed semi-autos…………It wouldn't hurt trying.

The ability to fire 22 short is not really a big deal for me. I don't think I've ever actually seen 22 short in a store, and it's not like 22 LR is expensive anyway. It would be a neat-to-have type thing, but I won't care if it doesn't work.

That sounds slightly different from my old Marlin, which is only manual……………Another reason for such a feature is to prevent dry firing the gun………..It sounds similar to the bolt hold on my Ruger mkII……I can remember the swear words my father would invent if my brother and I dry fired his Ruger mk I…….

What's the harm in dry-firing? I know it's "bad", and I haven't done it. (With the Russians, I have my snap-caps to use, and with the Marlin I don't even think it's possible to dry-fire it-- it won't close on an empty chamber unless you use the Bolt Close button, and the Bolt Close button seems to uncock the firing mechanism.) Still, I'm interested to know why it's bad for the gun.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

Komrades! When they speak of the day that the vile Nazis zombies milk-jugs came to the mountains of British Columbia, they will say that Patriot Kimmy was there to greet them... with Soviet lead!! A great victory for the people was achieved, fellow workers!

This morning I went snowshoeing off into the woods with all 3 guns strapped to my back and some milk-jugs to shoot. The Soviet guns both worked flawlessly!

I started with the SKS, and I loaded just one round and racked it carefully, just to make sure it didn't slam-fire or anything like that. Worked as advertised. I hit the jug on the first shot, which I was pretty proud of considering I was wearing snow-shoes and was pretty exhausted from all the carrying. I loaded a couple more rounds and hit the jug with both of them, and they cycled and ejected perfectly.

I was pretty excited about how well the SKS worked, and I moved on to the SVT-40. I proceeded cautiously, as with the SKS, because I was again concerned with the possibility of a slam-fire or accidentally going "full auto". I was glad that I started with the SKS, because if I had started with the SVT-40, I would have had nothing left to shoot. The SKS ventilated and crushed the jugs pretty good... but the SVT-40 shredded them. Literally. First shot with the SVT-40 was ... a miss, but the gun worked properly, so I loaded 2 more shots. Second shot, I hit the jug and it exploded and was literally ripped in half. Since that jug was no longer a viable target, I turned to the one that I'd been shooting with the SKS. I hit it, too, and it tore open and flew about 10 feet into the air. When I inspected the jugs, I found the 3 bullet holes left by the SKS in the one jug. The SVT-40 didn't leave any bullet holes; the jugs were just shredded as if claws had stabbed into them and ripped them apart. That gun is holy-shit awesome.

I was surprised at how loud the SKS is. I had heard that the SVT-40 is incredibly loud, but to me it seemed like the SKS is at least as loud. Or perhaps by the time I started shooting the SVT-40, my ears were already too desensitized to compare. Anyway, they're both hella-loud, and I was glad I did have ear plugs.

I had a couple of jugs left to shoot, so I loaded up the Marlin 60 and went to work. It also worked flawlessly, just as you'd hope for from a brand new gun. No complaints about it at all, other than that after the SVT-40, it was awfully anticlimactic. Neither jug was crushed or shredded, though both were quite ventilated by the time I finished with them.

My shooting needs plenty of practice. From a distance of about 15 yards I was 3/3 with the SKS, 2/3 with the SVT-40, and 15 or 16 out of 20 with the Marlin. I think that's probably not bad for a complete beginner wearing snowshoes who'd just carried 40 pounds of water and 20 pounds of guns a kilometer in fresh snow.

The guns are all cleaned and locked back in the cabinet. I'm really happy about how well they worked, especially the SVT-40. I mostly wanted it for historical interest and as a part of the collection, and given the gun's reputation for fickleness and the condition it was in when I received it, I wasn't confident that it was going to be very good. But it's just a delight.

Good to hear!!!! Hell of a lot fun eh? I doubt you’d have to worry about slam fires with the SVT-40 though (It doesn’t share the SKS’s FFFP)

I spent Friday with my son and his new “toy” (well technically mine until he get’s his PAL) that he‘d saved up for……..A Norinco M-14.………….I will say this, as a certified gun snob and a owner of a Springfield, the Nork wasn’t that bad………Well not a 1 MOA gun, with the stock sights (unadjusted) was picking off with ease half pieces of skeet’s (Skeet is about the size of a CD) at 100m……….Between the two of us, we put easy 500+ rounds of Norinco 7.62x51 FMJ through the thing, not a single problem……..

If it were my gun, I’d try and find a walnut stock (The plastic stock it comes with is cheesy, but good enough) and maybe some actual M-14 sights on it………but for a beginner, a great pirated gun………Norinco even copied, word for word, Springfield’s owners manual……

The ability to fire 22 short is not really a big deal for me. I don't think I've ever actually seen 22 short in a store, and it's not like 22 LR is expensive anyway. It would be a neat-to-have type thing, but I won't care if it doesn't work.

You can get subsonic 22 shorts……..Great for hunting pheasant & grouse and really quite…………Clap your hands together……….That’s louder then a 22 short report.

What's the harm in dry-firing? I know it's "bad", and I haven't done it. (With the Russians, I have my snap-caps to use, and with the Marlin I don't even think it's possible to dry-fire it-- it won't close on an empty chamber unless you use the Bolt Close button, and the Bolt Close button seems to uncock the firing mechanism.) Still, I'm interested to know why it's bad for the gun.

-k

No harm dry firing a centerfire gun since the firing pin is aligned with the empty barrel……….A rimfire it’s metal on metal.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

To add:

Kimmy don’t need no Russian queen,

She just needs an M-14

Edited February 11, 2013 by Derek L