bush_cheney2004 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Seriously ? You want "proof" and links that wait time in Canadian provinces suck big time compared to other nations? Otay.... For decades, wait times have been a consistent and much-lamented component of the Canadian health care system. Within the strictures of medicare, we endure lengthy waits for family doctors, specialists, tests, therapy, beds and on and on. Canadians, in fact, wait longer and more often for health care than citizens in all other developed countries. Why do we consider this acceptable? Earlier this month, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) released a major survey on international health care waiting lists and policies. Canada is at the bottom of the pack in almost every category. One example among many: 25 per cent of Canadian patients waited more than four months for non-emergency, elective surgery, the highest proportion of any country reported. The figure is 18 per cent in Australia and seven per cent in France, Switzerland and the United States. The OECD also reveals Canada to be one of five countries (out of a survey of 22) that report major wait-time problems in all six possible health care categories—from emergency rooms to long-term care. http://www.macleans.ca/politics/when-it-comes-to-waiting-canada-is-last-in-line-2/ Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) No...we don't care how you measure wait times in Canada. Go find your own sources if that is the only response to stupid long wait lists for basic medical tests and services in Canada. Love those official wait time web sites that let suffering Canadians just click on a body part ! If you want to say the US has better wait times for surgery, maybe you should put up or shut up then, hmm? You keep harping on the wait times here, but have absolutely nothing to substantiate your claims that it's any better in the US. Go ahead and provide a for American by American report on people's wait times in your country. Then we'll talk. Until then, you'll just have to suck it up that you have the most expensive and ineffective healthcare system in the world. Where's all that money going anyway? Hell, you even spend more publicly than we do in Canada with very worse results in nearly every area of health. Keep pointing out wait times in Canada--despite that problem our healthcare system is FAR superior by every metric and cheaper to run too. Edited June 9, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Seriously ? You want "proof" and links that wait time in Canadian provinces suck big time compared to other nations? Otay.... For decades, wait times have been a consistent and much-lamented component of the Canadian health care system. Within the strictures of medicare, we endure lengthy waits for family doctors, specialists, tests, therapy, beds and on and on. Canadians, in fact, wait longer and more often for health care than citizens in all other developed countries. Why do we consider this acceptable? Earlier this month, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) released a major survey on international health care waiting lists and policies. Canada is at the bottom of the pack in almost every category. One example among many: 25 per cent of Canadian patients waited more than four months for non-emergency, elective surgery, the highest proportion of any country reported. The figure is 18 per cent in Australia and seven per cent in France, Switzerland and the United States. The OECD also reveals Canada to be one of five countries (out of a survey of 22) that report major wait-time problems in all six possible health care categories—from emergency rooms to long-term care. http://www.macleans.ca/politics/when-it-comes-to-waiting-canada-is-last-in-line-2/ Wow. Great information. Canadians wait longer for non-emergency, elective surgeries. Oh the humanity. That must mean people are dying in the streets waiting to see doctors. Oh wait....no. No it doesn't. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 .... Keep pointing out wait times in Canada--despite that problem our healthcare system is FAR superior by every metric and cheaper to run too. There's your answer folks....rather than look to Europe for much better private/public solutions, the same old excuse for suck health care wait times in Canada is on display....a very narrow focus on the United States, which doesn't even have a universal single pay system. Cheaper is right...and it shows. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 There's your answer folks....rather than look to Europe for much better private/public solutions, the same old excuse for suck health care wait times in Canada is on display....a very narrow focus on the United States, which doesn't even have a universal single pay system. Cheaper is right...and it shows. Us Canadian "folks" already have our answer: a cheaper system with better outcomes. Do ya think it may have something to do with not having to line the pockets of a myriad of insurance companys while we get our tonsils out? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) Canadians with deep pockets (including elected officials) make a run to the USA's "dead last" health care system when they don't want to wait in long queues like patriotic rubes. Traitors! "That's why the premier of one of the Canadian provinces came here just last week to have his heart operated on," Barrasso told Obama. "He said, 'It's my heart, it's my life, I want to go where it's the best.' And he came to the United States." Williams, a 60-year-old populist who has been running Newfoundland since 2003, did indeed put it that way. "This was my heart, my choice and my health," he told the Canadian Press from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla., where he was recovering from surgery. "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics." http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/canadian-health-care-has-a-dirty-secret/Content?oid=1511496 Edited June 9, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Canadians with deep pockets (including elected officials) make a run to the USA's "dead last" health care system when they don't want to wait in long queues like patriotic rubes. Traitors! "That's why the premier of one of the Canadian provinces came here just last week to have his heart operated on," Barrasso told Obama. "He said, 'It's my heart, it's my life, I want to go where it's the best.' And he came to the United States." Williams, a 60-year-old populist who has been running Newfoundland since 2003, did indeed put it that way. "This was my heart, my choice and my health," he told the Canadian Press from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla., where he was recovering from surgery. "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics." http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/canadian-health-care-has-a-dirty-secret/Content?oid=1511496 Which is one of the main problems with your system, ya gotta have such deep pockets. But I'm glad you're finally starting to get it. Quote
waldo Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 there it is! And there we have it... as I stated previously, the great deflector continues to ignore the multitude of study's and references that all speak to the comparative American health disadvantage relative to other representative countries! Of course, that is the great deflector's trolling charade! Instead we get an endless continuation of the same ole, same ole... apparently, to the principal deflector, those comparative U.S. failings hold inherent caveats, such as: - the American health disadvantage failings are due to the freedom Americans hold to be able to abuse themselves through life-style choices... freedom! - and, of course, "cash is king", as in if you have the cash, no problemo... those failings do not apply to your America and your subset American health system! Apparently if you have no cash, you're not an American included in the mix! - and, perhaps the best of all, according to the principal deflector, the American health system has no expection of delivering universal care, hence, you get what you get... lump it or leave it! - and, it's all about Commie Care... within this thread, when I previously provided actual American wait times for the largest American cities (just for appointments to see a specialist (a consult, not surgery) or a GP), highest and significant wait times were experienced in Boston. In this matter, the principal deflector called this a representation of universal "Commie Care" (as in Massachusetts Romney Care)... with no expectation of universiality in the U.S. health care systems. Err... well, at least not with degrees of respect to the state of Massachusetts and it's 7 million Americans. Oh my, as I queried, just what will Obamacare do to existing American wait lines? refusing to actually acknowledge the study's and references detailing the American health disadvantage. Instead, deflect, deflect, deflect! Quote
waldo Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 should we expect the great deflector to meet either my continued challenges... or your more recent one? If you want to say the US has better wait times for surgery, maybe you should put up or shut up then, hmm? You keep harping on the wait times here, but have absolutely nothing to substantiate your claims that it's any better in the US. Go ahead and provide a for American by American report on people's wait times in your country. Then we'll talk. Until then, you'll just have to suck it up that you have the most expensive and ineffective healthcare system in the world. what! You mean your challenge/request wasn't met... wasn't even entertained? Say it ain't so! Quote
cybercoma Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Nope. Can't even answer a simple question. Needs to put up numbers about elective surgeries because he doesn't want to face the stark reality that maybe, just maybe Canada's wait times for medically necessary and emergency surgeries are better than the US. One thing we don't have in Canada is people waiting around and not seeing doctors because they can't afford it. Damn it's good live in a country that isn't scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to healthcare and education, unlike the United States. Quote
dre Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Nope. Can't even answer a simple question. Needs to put up numbers about elective surgeries because he doesn't want to face the stark reality that maybe, just maybe Canada's wait times for medically necessary and emergency surgeries are better than the US. One thing we don't have in Canada is people waiting around and not seeing doctors because they can't afford it. Damn it's good live in a country that isn't scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to healthcare and education, unlike the United States. Thats a good point. How many millions of Americans are on "waiting lists" that will wait.... forever... Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Back by popular demand.....and long wait times in Canada: Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 Back by popular demand.....and long wait times in Canada: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/25/america-canada-freedom-of-choice-public-healthcare Something a little more up to date perhaps? Quote
waldo Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 certainly... also back by popular demand in regard that same deflection put up earlier in this thread: no, that article presents an incorrect summation - in fact, in that 'survey', the United States is the "dead last" winner! Far be it for anyone here to expect you to check the actual study, hey? Oh wait, that's just you being consistent, right? Why would you bother confirming the study... you don't want anything to do with studies, most particularly this threads OP referenced study that shows the "dead last" winning position the United States holds in a comparative "health disadvantage" with other high income countries. The U.S., "dead last" while spending 2-to-3 times as much on healthcare as other countries reviewed! the study/survey you incorrectly presented: just another study where the great deflector doesn't actually acknowledge... yet another... overall dead last ranking for the U.S.!. Quote
waldo Posted June 9, 2014 Report Posted June 9, 2014 just to clarify the background to this thread resurrection: in another thread, once again, the great deflector played out his BS wait-time deflection routine. Certainly, the waldo will play... and did accordingly in a proper related thread - this one. Hence, the latest study update speaking to the mediocre U.S. health outcomes relative to other representative countries. Of course, the great deflector completely refused to acknowledge this study (and all the others in this thread) that spoke... that continue to speak, to the great American health disadvantage! Quote
monty16 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Americans hate their fellow Americans so let them pretend they have good affordable health care. They have to reach rock bottom before they will come to their senses and demand a piece of the great wealth that is in the hands of the very wealthy. They think it's the American way to get rich first before having a right to life. Phhhhhttttttt! Who cares? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Phhhhhttttttt! Who cares? Who cares ? Apparently, many Canadians care, because it is the only way they can convince themselves that Canada's underfunded, constipated universal access health care system is doing just fine. Any mention of better public/private alternatives brings out the worrisome whining over "American style" health care. Then they cross the border anyway to buy health care services not quickly available in the wait time "cesspool" north of the border. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 and still... the great deflector refuses to provide American wait times.and still... the great deflector speaks of the miniscule number of Canadians seeking health care in the U.S., while completely ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Americans that travel outside the U.S. seeking medical care: ... yes, choice is good; particularly if you're one of the hundreds of thousands of Americans currently traveling outside your country for medical care..... an estimated 750,000 in 2007! Wow, look at those projections, hey? 6 million/2010... 11 million/2013! What was that number your article threw up... oh ya, the guy who 'brokered' care in the U.S. for 3500 Canadians over 8 years. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Big Veterans Administration (VA) health care scandal for wait times exceeding 50 days in the U.S. These unacceptable wait times for some regional VA hospitals would be an improvement for several Canadian provinces. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Oh yeah? Are they all elective surgeries? Because that's the only thing you've talked about. Put up some wait time numbers in the US...we're still waiting and you've still got nothing. Meanwhile, your countries healthcare rankings are still dead last in the industrialized world and you still pay more public money into than Canada does. That's just sad. Quote
waldo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Oh yeah? Are they all elective surgeries? Because that's the only thing you've talked about. Put up some wait time numbers in the US...we're still waiting and you've still got nothing. Meanwhile, your countries healthcare rankings are still dead last in the industrialized world and you still pay more public money into than Canada does. That's just sad. no - they're not elective surgeries; the U.S. VA "scandal reference" is with respect to appointment scheduling... but don't let that get in the way of the great deflector! I touched on this just a short while back - this post. Of course, most anyone in Canada can see a doctor relatively quickly via the multitude of walk-in clinics... sometimes you walk right in and wait 15-20 minutes, sometimes you wait longer. My experience with waiting at a clinic is the longest I've ever waited is ~2 hours, and what that involved was checking in, getting an estimate on the wait from the front-end nursing/reception staff, and making sure I'm back before the estimate offered... as in I didn't wait at all; I went grocery shopping and came back. Of course, if you have a personal GP, if you want to schedule an appointment to see that GP you will have to wait if you expect to get in that same/next couple of days... in that regard, the longest I've ever waited is 2 weeks, which was to simply schedule for a complete physical... which involved a degree of questioning as to my urgency... which wasn't any. will the great deflector ever step up to provide U.S. elective surgery wait times... that includes all U.S. government and private categorizations of coverage, particularly the 50 million+ Americans covered by Medicaid... or the ~15 million that still don't have medical insurance... or the 7 million in Massachusetts subject to "CommieCare Romneycare"... etc.. Perhaps the great deflector could also offer comment on what impact Obamacare is projected to have on those same wait times he refuses to provide. Is there a problem, great deflector? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Oh yeah? Are they all elective surgeries? Because that's the only thing you've talked about. Put up some wait time numbers in the US...we're still waiting and you've still got nothing. Meanwhile, your countries healthcare rankings are still dead last in the industrialized world and you still pay more public money into than Canada does. That's just sad. See toe tag above...published by a Canadian concern. Cover reads..."Dead Last". National dream...or nightmare ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 great deflector! You've already been schooled on that article/study... since you keep repeating it, this will now be the 3rd time. as for seeing above, see the "above" multitude of studies (written by Americans, for Americans) within this thread that speak to the great comparative "American health disadvantage" as compared with other representative counties... with the U.S. 'dead last' or near the bottom in all cases. Spend the most... get the worst health return - USA!, USA!, USA! Quote
cybercoma Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 See toe tag above...published by a Canadian concern. Cover reads..."Dead Last". National dream...or nightmare ? Still nothing? For someone that has so much to say, you sure don't say much. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Still nothing? For someone that has so much to say, you sure don't say much. Then why do you keep responding ? Canadians are waiting in queue for their promised national dream, but nobody told them they have to wait months or years for treatment that is "not an emergency". Most health care is not delivered in an ER setting, except maybe for underfunded provinces that lack proper facilities for the elderly, chronically ill, and those without the requisite gatekeeper (doctor) to the "national dream". I just searched my state's web site for a comprehensive HTML wait time scoreboard....alas....none is to be found. But they do have a link to the Mayo Clinic, where some Canadians are getting treatment right now...they grew tired of waiting "north of the border". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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