Why do we have monsters?

[betsy]

You can say nothing's new.....it's happened before. But whom are you kidding?

As I watched the breaking news about the massacre in Connecticut, I couldn't help but notice the streaming news at the bottom of my screen....

China stabbing spree hurts 22 schoolchildren

A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/14/china-knife-attack-school.html

Nobody died in the China knifing news....but still, it is as chilling.

There is no doubt, we're living a different reality this days. From parents coldbloodedly drowning their children, to strangers casually killing as many as they can.

Now it seems more focus is on children, and/or the most vulnerable.

VANCOUVER -- Two woman were in life-threatening condition late Friday after a series of seemingly random attacks on elderly women in the Downtown Eastside earlier in the day.

A 35-year-old man wearing just his underwear was arrested near the 700-block of Pacific Blvd. at about 10 a.m. Friday, shortly after the series of attacks.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Three+women+injured+attacks+Vancouver/7668127/story.html#ixzz2F7f7uIUz

The elderly stabbings above chillingly mirrors this incident:

A naked madman who stabbed five people on a rampage with a six-inch kitchen knife in New York was driven to distraction by the East Coast earthquake, it has been reported.

Christian Falero, 23, went banging on his neighbours' doors in Washington Heights before viciously stabbing one elderly man to death and attacking four others, including three women aged between 60 and 85.

The young man, who then turned the blade on himself, is said to have felt the tremors and gone crazy as a result.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2029530/Christian-Falero-Naked-New-York-stabbing-rampage-man-spooked-earthquake.html

Copycat, they say also contribute to a lot of killings. But why would someone want to copycat such things?

Why do we have monsters? And why do we have so many suddenly turning up at this rate?

Is it in the water we drink? Why?

[Guest Manny]

One problem is we sensationalize the hell out of it. Some people are seeking to be infamous..The notoriety, knowing it will shock everybody in the world adds to the appeal of doing it, for the psycho mass murderer.

[betsy]

One problem is we sensationalize the hell out of it. Some people are seeking to be infamous..The notoriety, knowing it will shock everybody in the world adds to the appeal of doing it, for the psycho mass murderer.

Exactly. And they try to "break the record" by out-doing the former sensation!

[Guest Manny]

Exactly. And they try to "break the record" by out-doing the former sensation!

And why? No doubt because it sells. It appeals to the base emotions and makes ratings go up. In essence, they -perversely- make money off of such hype. From a conversation with my spouse this morning!

We decided to not follow story like this so closely. We want to know about them, or any valid news from around the world but I think the intense focus on this issue, tragic as it is, does not help matters. It may make the situation even worse.

[Guest]

We used to lock looneys up, just for being looney. Now we integrate them into society and treat them with drugs.

[Guest American Woman]

We used to lock looneys up, just for being looney. Now we integrate them into society and treat them with drugs.

Yep. There seems to be three or four threads about this now, but as I said in another thread:

Things change within a nation over time. One of the things that have changed is that people with certain disorders are no longer institutionalized. People with special needs/personality disorders/et al are "mainstreamed" into society. All the counselling in the world doesn't take away the disorder, or the characteristics. Also, some evidence suggests that there is an increase in such disorders, such as the one suffered by this gunman - Asperger Syndrome. Is it wrong to integrate such people into society? The consensus is that it's a good thing, but that doesn't mean there's not going to be some negative aspects along with the positive.

I will add that we expect the afflicted to take the drugs (assume that they will?), which themselves often have side effects, but they don't always take their medication.

[Guest]

Yep. There seems to be three or four threads about this now, but as I said in another thread:

I just got up, made some coffee, checked the footy scores, and come on here because it was half time. This was the first thread I checked.

Edit>That said, I wasn't making an editorial comment. Just saying that's why it happens.

Edited December 15, 2012 by bcsapper

[Guest American Woman]

I just got up, made some coffee, checked the footy scores, and come on here because it was half time. This was the first thread I checked.

Oh, I wasn't insinuating that you should have seen it - I was just explaining in case you or other people read basically the same thing in more than one thread, so sorry if it came across that way. Enjoy your morning coffee! I've been up for hours - I think I'm on my third Diet Coke by now(my version of the morning cup of coffee).

[Sleipnir]

Why do we have monsters? And why do we have so many suddenly turning up at this rate?

Media sensation, bad news sells better than good news.

[Guest American Woman]

Media sensation, bad news sells better than good news.

We could make a list of the things people blame an increase in such incidents on; I'll start with the most often voiced opinion on this board, the rest are in no particular order:

1) Gun laws aren't strong enough

2) Media attention

3) Bullies

4) Divorce/single parents

5) Decline of religion

6) Music

7) Video games

8) Lack of mental health care

9) Hollywood

10) Destruction of society

11) And I suppose I should add: - Americans are idiots who love guns more than they love children

I'm sure there are others, but that's what comes to mind off the top of my head.

[Sleipnir]

I'll start with the most often voiced opinion on this board, the rest are in no particular order:

5) Decline of religion

6) Music

I'm sure there are others, but that's what comes to mind off the top of my head.

I don't see how the argument for music and decline of religion resulting in increase gun violence can be valid...

Edited December 15, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest American Woman]

I don't see how the argument for music and decline of religion resulting in increase gun violence can be valid...

Some people believe that the lyrics in some of today's music glorify, promote, and result in violence: and some think that the decline of religion = decline in moral values.

[betsy]

But still so many questions....

are all these monsters copycats? If they are, why do they end up copycatting something like this?

Are all these people crazies? Why so many of them? Let's not think only of the sensational murders that result in mass-killings. What about killings that result in one victm or two? Like the recent murder-suicides....the latest one being that football guy?

Why do more people commit suicides? Kill others, before they commit suicides? It's not that suicide is not uncommon....but it's the rate of suicides happening that's the problem.

Then there are those that are so cold and unfeeling, like the guy who stabbed a teen infront of her parents during a home invasion. He stabbed her so many times, and he told the parents, "I know she's dead. I can feel the floor."

These are no ordinary crimes!

What about parents who kill their children because of messy divorce or separation. That's becoming the "trend" for quite a while now. Why do parents end up opting to kill their kids just because they lost the custody battle? The latest one I heard happened in Quebec last week (mother suspected of killing three kids)....there must be others we've never even read about.

There is something happening around us, that's changing us.

[GostHacked]

Some people believe that the lyrics in some of today's music glorify, promote, and result in violence: and some think that the decline of religion = decline in moral values.

A specific type of 'rap' (cause it's not hip-hop) called 'gangster rap' does promote violence and gun culture.

There is a reason other rappers out there are trying to change the view, rap and hip hop should not be about violence.

Ice Cube comes to mind.

[betsy]

We could make a list of the things people blame an increase in such incidents on; I'll start with the most often voiced opinion on this board, the rest are in no particular order:

1) Gun laws aren't strong enough

2) Media attention

3) Bullies

4) Divorce/single parents

5) Decline of religion

6) Music

7) Video games

8) Lack of mental health care

9) Hollywood

10) Destruction of society

11) And I suppose I should add: - Americans are idiots who love guns more than they love children

I'm sure there are others, but that's what comes to mind off the top of my head.

But those list still don't answer the question. Like an onion, we've got to peel back the skin until we come to the answer. Like, why would weak gun control measures produce these killers? Why do some easily use their guns to kill....and others who have the same access to guns, don't?

Same idea with media attention....yes, it does encourage the ones who have a desire to kill to act upon that fantasy. But why do they have the desire to kill?

Bullies. How many end up killing people because of being bullied? A lot of people had experienced being bullied but didn't kill anyone. And there are also a lot of bullies who never actually killed anyone.

Divorce - millions are products of divorce or dysfunctional families - and yet you hear a lot of success stories coming from them. Yet others are driven to despair, and end up killing.

There's something more deeper than those spelled out in that list.

Why are others so weak in handling life's challenges compared to others?

[Guest American Woman]

A specific type of 'rap' (cause it's not hip-hop) called 'gangster rap' does promote violence and gun culture.

There is a reason other rappers out there are trying to change the view, rap and hip hop should not be about violence.

So direct that to Sleipnir, why don't you, since he's the one who said he doesn't see how the argument for music resulting in increase gun violence can be valid....

[betsy]

Some people believe that the lyrics in some of today's music glorify, promote, and result in violence: and some think that the decline of religion = decline in moral values.

From a Christian perspective, I can see how a Godless society is shaping up reflecting that - being God-less.

[Guest]

From a Christian perspective, I can see how a Godless society is shaping up reflecting that - being God-less.

Do we know for a fact the latest monster wasn't a churchgoer?

[GostHacked]

So direct that to Sleipnir, why don't you, since he's the one who said he doesn't see how the argument for music resulting in increase gun violence can be valid....

Well by that you have to admit that Hollywood and TV play a role in this as well. It's not coming from just the music industry. It is part of American culture.

[Guest American Woman]

Well by that you have to admit that Hollywood and TV play a role in this as well. It's not coming from just the music industry. It is part of American culture.

I didn't say it was coming from the music industry - I didn't personally make any comments about the music industry other than to point out that some people think it's a factor in increased shooting spree incidents. I also never said that Hollywood was - or wasn't - a factor, but will simply point out that Canadians are raised watching the same movies Americans are - doing so is part of Canadian culture.

Edited December 15, 2012 by American Woman

[msj]

From a Christian perspective, I can see how a Godless society is shaping up reflecting that - being God-less.

Sure, and from a Christian perspective you can probably see the "joy" of 20 children getting the best Christmas present ever! They are now dancing with Jesus!

Yep, nothing better than "being with God" and "being in a better place" etc etc

[betsy]

Do we know for a fact the latest monster wasn't a churchgoer?

Being a churchgoer is one thing. First of all....which church? What god? Of course, I'm speaking as a Christian.

And before anyone jumps in to throw about the atrocities that Christians did, or the hypocrisies of christians,....I'd like to emphasize about the teachings of Christ. To be a Christian, one has to follow the teachings of Christ.

[Guest American Woman]

Do we know for a fact the latest monster wasn't a churchgoer?

I don't think the view regarding "lack of religion" is so much directed at the individual as it is at society - and society is being blamed by many.

[betsy]

Sure, and from a Christian perspective you can probably see the "joy" of 20 children getting the best Christmas present ever! They are now dancing with Jesus!

Yep, nothing better than "being with God" and "being in a better place" etc etc

What do you say to console a grieving parent?

[Guest American Woman]

What do you say to console a grieving parent?

Good question. Here's some good advice, IMO; Dealing With Grief: Five Things NOT to Say and Five Things to Say In a Trauma Involving Children

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-emily-c-heath/dealing-with-grief-five-t_b_2303910.html