Hypocrisy of the Rich

[maplesyrup]

Article

To achieve maximum personal enrichment, Conrad Black is alleged, among other things, to have arranged for millions of dollars in management fees to be paid to his private companies registered in Barbados, where they faced a minuscule 2 1/2 per cent corporate tax rate.

Reading about this last week, I realized for the first time that I was in the grip of a powerful emotion that could perhaps be described as "tax rage."

Readers of the National Post — the organ that Black established as a right-wing bullhorn back in 1998 — will recognize this emotion. It is an anger we all supposedly feel toward government (or the "Taxstapo" as it's been referred to in the Post) for imposing taxes on us.

Of course, the tax rage I experienced last week was quite different; the rage was directed at the way the rich manage to reduce their taxes, thereby sticking the rest of the population with higher taxes to make up the shortfall.

This isn't at all the kind of tax rage that Black tried to foster in the Canadian public. Rather, following the path pioneered by Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, Black used the Post to spearhead a campaign in Canada to pressure governments to reduce taxes, particularly on the rich, and in the process leave the national treasury barely able to afford public programs badly wanted by the rest of us.

The Post soon became the de facto command centre of the anti-tax corporate lobby in Canada, exhorting the citizenry to abandon its "apparent capacity to absorb any degree of tax slavery," as the Post put it.

The Post offered up a daily diet of anti-tax hysteria that soon came to be reflected in much of the rest of the media, creating an apparent cacophony of demands for tax cuts across the land — a tale well chronicled in Larry Patriquin's perceptive new book, Inventing Tax Rage.

This is the real reason our health care system is buckling at the seams, why we have to raise tuition fees, why we have to charge camping fees, etc.

The rich, who advocate lower taxes are greedy scum and people who support their ideas are just as bad. :angry:

[maplesyrup]

If you have two dollars, and someone else has nothing, it is our Canadian government's raison d'etre to take a dollar way from you, and give it to the person with nothing.

That, and that alone is the number one purpose of our government - to redistribute the wealth so that rich yahoos like Black don't destroy our society.

[August1991]

If you have two dollars, and someone else has nothing, it is our Canadian government's raison d'etre to take a dollar way from you, and give it to the person with nothing.

And when the government comes next year to get another dollar, it won't be there because you won't have earned it. You'll be waiting like the other guy for the government to give you a dollar.

[I miss Reagan]

I prefer to keep the rich here. The top 50% of wage earners pay 96% of the total tax and the top 20% of wage earners pay 80% of the total tax. It's something the Saskatchewan NDP government is realizing. Hey if we provide tax incentives for the rich perhaps they'll do business in our province. Our royal highness PM PM has realized that he can locate his business in a more tax friendly environment. Our best doctors and scientists have realized they can do their work in more tax friendly environments. I for one have never been hired by a poor person. I'm glad my company here in Alberta recieves tax breaks that enable them to pay me.

[maplesyrup]

Actually most people have a work ethic, and will work given the opportunity.

That is the rich people's strategy. Focus on the poor down and out person getting a dollar, in order to deflect paying attention to how the rich are stealing billions, eh!

Yes, if we listen to the rich, or the sychophants who aspire to be rich, we will destroy our country. Fortunately there are enough intelligent people in Canada to realize these ideas from the rich need to be put out to pasture with the other brilliant theories like the "Flat Earth Society". It wasn't that long ago the FES people were a dominant group.

[maplesyrup]

What provides me with the biggest chuckle of all however, is that these rich people love to call themselves Christians.

What a perversion of what Chritianity is supposed to represent. Personally I think organized religion is exactly that - organized, similar to organized crime.

No wonder Christianity is in such a mess.

Maybe it is time for a reverse debtor's prison. If you are found with too much money, you get thrown in jail or are beheaded. We could hire tax auditors as bounty hunters to go after the rich. Why not make it a crime to be rich? After all most of their wealth is ill gotten gain, whether achieved through stealing, deceit, murder, whatever.

[I miss Reagan]

What provides me with the biggest chuckle of all however, is that these rich people love to call themselves Christians.

What a perversion of what Chritianity is supposed to represent. Personally I think organized religion is exactly that - organized, similar to organized crime.

No wonder Christianity is in such a mess.

Now all rich people are Christians? Do you read what you post? You compare Christianity to Organized crime? Cookoo

[I miss Reagan]

I think we need to go over the simple tax analogy again for you MS.

"Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men -- the poorest -- would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18, and the tenth man -- the richest -- would pay $59. That's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant

every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement -- until one day, the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut).

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So

the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six -- the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, Then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested

that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the

eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59.

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth

man, but he, (pointing to the tenth) got $7!". "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man, "I only saved a dollar, too, ........It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!". That's true!" shouted the seventh man, why

should he get $7 back when I got only $2?" The wealthy get all the breaks!".

Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very

important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill! Imagine that!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. Where would that leave the rest?

Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp

this."

[maplesyrup]

Yup, that's correct.

It would not surprise me to find out that your hero Black is a member of a Christian Church - he's a hood, a scumbag, the worst kind of individual walking the face of the planet.

Don't you ever wonder about Christianity when after there is some sick killing or other crime in socierty, inevitablity we read in the papers a couple of days later that these sickos are members of some fundamentalist Christian church? :angry:

[maplesyrup]

If Conrad Black = Capitalism, I'll choose Socialism any day, and so will the overwhelming majority of Canadians.

[I miss Reagan]

Yup, that's correct.

It would not surprise me to find out that your hero Black is a member of a Christian Church - he's a hood, a scumbag, the worst kind of individual walking the face of the planet.

Don't you ever wonder about Christianity when after there is some sick killing or other crime in socierty, inevitablity we read in the papers a couple of days later that these sickos are members of some fundamentalist Christian church? :angry:

You are a trolling wing nut.

[maplesyrup]

Yup, that's correct.

It would not surprise me to find out that your hero Black is a member of a Christian Church - he's a hood, a scumbag, the worst kind of individual walking the face of the planet.

Don't you ever wonder about Christianity when after there is some sick killing or other crime in socierty, inevitablity we read in the papers a couple of days later that these sickos are members of some fundamentalist Christian church?  :angry:

You are a trolling wing nut.

Brilliant deductions going on here - anyone who doesn't toe the right wing corporate agenda, in other words anyone who disagrees, gets labelled a troll.

This is so typical of the right wing lack of substance arguments, when you can't win an argument, try and smear your opponents.

[I miss Reagan]

The only thing that is going on, and that has been going on since the beginning, is class warfare. The rich against the poor. You can try to disguise it up any way you want, different religion, different language, different colour skin, different race, but those are all smokescreens.

-MS

Ya what was that correlation you were making between Christians and the rich? Looks to me like a little liberal double talk going on, hmm. My reference to your trolling is your blanket insults towards one group of people. I'm just waiting for you to say that all Jews want to take over the world. You appear to be trying to incite anger from one group. That's the only reason I can figure out that you'd go way off topic and try to connect all rich people as Christian.

[kimmy]

This is the real reason our health care system is buckling at the seams, why we have to raise tuition fees, why we have to charge camping fees, etc.

The article you posted doesn't seem to support that conclusion at all.

Conrad Black, and the National Post, and all their fans, might have hollered long and loud for tax cuts. But is there any evidence that they had any influence on national policy?

Your article says the National Post was founded in 1998... Finance Minister Martin's deep cuts were well underway by then.

I don't recall any big tax cuts during the Liberal reign. I'm young, I don't remember all of the Liberals' reign all that well; however, I don't see any strength to your argument that tax cuts are the reason for the cutbacks to government services. Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks rather obvious to me that the cuts to services weren't caused by tax-cuts, they were caused by the decision to balance the budget.

As for the rest? Rich people are Christians; deranged killers are Christians; I don't think it's really worth discussing... we'll file it with some of your other ideas, like tax-cuts for French people.

-kimmy

[maplesyrup]

These responses are the kind of stuff that Chomsky's alludes to in his writings.

Do a thorough analysis of the Canadian tax system, see where all the loopholes for the rich are. It in not rocket science to figure out if these loopholes were closed we would have more than enough money for all the average person's needs in our society.

But no, go ahead and believe all the drivel that the Fraser Institute, Canada's corporate media, the lawyers and tax accountants shovel out. Blame it all on some poor welfare recipient if it makes you feel like a good Christian. :angry:

Just don't expect thinking people to buy into that nonsense.

[August1991]

These responses are the kind of stuff that Chomsky's alludes to in his writings.

Do a thorough analysis of the Canadian tax system, see where all the loopholes for the rich are. It in not rocket science to figure out if these loopholes were closed we would have more than enough money for all the average person's needs in our society.

I'm no expert on Chomsky but I've always thought of him as a charlatan windbag.

But if it's true MS that Chomsky alludes to these ideas in his writings (admittedly Chomsky seems to allude to alot of things in his writings), then he knows little about people.

People change their behaviour. If the government were to try to tax the rich, the rich would stop working/leave/hide their money elsewhere. MS, you assume that the rich are going to stand still while you change the rules.

[I miss Reagan]

Chomsky

[kimmy]

These responses are the kind of stuff that Chomsky's alludes to in his writings.

Do a thorough analysis of the Canadian tax system, see where all the loopholes for the rich are. It in not rocket science to figure out if these loopholes were closed we would have more than enough money for all the average person's needs in our society.

But no, go ahead and believe all the drivel that the Fraser Institute, Canada's corporate media, the lawyers and tax accountants shovel out. Blame it all on some poor welfare recipient if it makes you feel like a good Christian. :angry:

Just don't expect thinking people to buy into that nonsense.

Let's do a quick recap of this thread... you come in yelling about how Conrad Black etc have caused tax cuts that destroyed Canada's social programs.

But you can't come up with one scrap of evidence to suggest that these tax-cuts have even occured.

Blaming media conspiracies and brainwashed people, and apparently Christians, isn't going to help demonstrate that these tax cuts occured. What tax cuts, Maple?

Cuts to services were a result of balancing the budget, not these fictional tax cuts. Crying about right wing agendas and Christians doesn't change the fact of what really happened.

-kimmy

[maplesyrup]

People change their behaviour.  If the government were to try to tax the rich, the rich would stop working/leave/hide their money elsewhere.  MS, you assume that the rich are going to stand still while you change the rules.

So let the rich leave, all they are, are parasites on our society draining our resources. If it was so bad they would have left a long time ago. This is a tired old argument, and anyways who cares if they leave. good riddance. It is time to repair our tax structure and close off all these corporate scams. The rich change the rules all the time through their secretive corporate lobbying that most Canadians don't even realize is happpening. Spare us the crocodile tears.

Do you think for one second if some business closes up where there is a demand for the product that another will not come forth to take its place? That's not the way capitalism works.

[maplesyrup]

Black named in Canadian class action

Shades of Bre-X?

[I miss Reagan]

So let the rich leave, all they are, are parasites on our society draining our resources. If it was so bad they would have left a long time ago. This is a tired old argument, and anyways who cares if they leave. good riddance.

Parasites? LOL Who will you tax to death when they are gone? How will you pay for your precious wasteful spending programs? How will you pay for healthcare? Remember that the top 20% of wage earners pay 80% of the taxes. And I think we know that included in the liberal definition of "rich" is the middle class so don't forget that the top 50% of wage earners pay 96% of the taxes. BTW have you wondered why we have such a shortage of doctors here? Do you understand why Canada's most innovative and talented individuals go to the US? Do you understand why our own PM keeps his business overseas? Can you be any more myopic?

[I miss Reagan]

MS you have some obvious communist opinions. I'm curious, do you consider your self a communist?

[maplesyrup]

Why don't you lose your paranoia? What makes you think communism is a dirty word? It is just another word in the dictionary like capitalism, fascism, democracy, etc.

It is also obvious from your comments that you don't understand the meaning of the word.

For what it's worth, I consider myself a middle class social democratic intellectual.

[I miss Reagan]

I was honestly curious. No need to get offended.

So a social democratic intellectual eh?

[kimmy]

My dad once said "Anybody who calls himself an intellectual... probably isn't."

I'm still quite curious, Maple. You blame the right-wing tax-cut agenda for destroying social programs in this country. In August you blamed the Conservatives and Green Party (!) for the poor showing of our Olympic team, presumably because their tax-cut agenda would have led to less funding for Canada's athletes.

We still haven't heard what tax-cuts actually happened that caused all this destruction. Are you telling us that the mere opinion of people supporting tax cuts has caused all this damage? If not, then what?

-kimmy