First nations patiences waning

[Smallc]

Real change would be a recognition of the multicultural reality of this country, and the realization of a need to lbrcome part of that society, as equal people, no different from anyone else.

[cybercoma]

Maybe the federal government should start treating them equally then and providing them with the same level of support as other Canadians get.

[Smallc]

Maybe that would require an end to the Indian Act and reservations. Equality must not be a half measure. Under the current law, they cannot be treated equal, unfortunately.

[jacee]

Real change would be a recognition of the multicultural reality of this country, and the realization of a need to lbrcome part of that society, as equal people, no different from anyone else.

Genocide isn't popular any more.

[Smallc]

Making people in a society equal is genocide, now?

[jacee]

Maybe that would require an end to the Indian Act and reservations. Equality must not be a half measure. Under the current law, they cannot be treated equal, unfortunately.

The Supreme Court might have a legal opinion on that.

[cybercoma]

Maybe that would require an end to the Indian Act and reservations. Equality must not be a half measure. Under the current law, they cannot be treated equal, unfortunately.

You might be right. However, the First Nations don't agree to be governed by our systems. Their agreement came before those systems were established. You're asking that they completely give up on self-government and the preservation of their culture.

[cybercoma]

The Supreme Court might have a legal opinion on that.

It would have to be done with FN agreement. It couldn't be forced on them from Ottawa.

[Smallc]

Actually, it could be done with a change to the Constitution. As has been said, these separate rights only exist by the grace of Canada and Canadians as a society, one which include First Nations people. It's time to move forward into reality.

[jacee]

Making people in a society equal is genocide, now?

Destruction of a culture is genocide.

Forced assimilation is genocide.

You really should consider updating your approach, smallc, as you are dooming yourself to frustration on this tack.

[jacee]

Actually, it could be done with a change to the Constitution. As has been said, these separate rights only exist by the grace of Canada and Canadians as a society, one which include First Nations people. It's time to move forward into reality.

Actually ... no it can't.

Aboriginal rights predate Canada/BNA.

They are only recognized and affirmed in the Constitution Act. They weren't created by it.

[cybercoma]

Actually, it could be done with a change to the Constitution. As has been said, these separate rights only exist by the grace of Canada and Canadians as a society, one which include First Nations people. It's time to move forward into reality.

You force it upon them by changing the constitution and refusing to recognize their rights you're asking for a war.

Edited December 13, 2012 by cybercoma

[Smallc]

Destruction of a culture is genocide.

Forced assimilation is genocide.

I never proposed either of those things. Multicultural society allows for people to be part of Canadian society, and yet keep what they are.

[Smallc]

Actually ... no it can't.

Aboriginal rights predate Canada/BNA.

They are only recognized and affirmed in the Constitution Act. They weren't created by it.

They only to continue to have meaning because they are recognized and affirmed. Without that, they are irrelevant.

[Smallc]

You force it upon them by changing the constitution and refusing to recognize their rights you're asking for a war.

Who said anything about force? Aboriginal people, and not their leadership, need to understand the value that exists within Canadian society, and that the continuation of this rather self imposed segregation and difference helps no one. I live and work in a majority aboriginal area. I understand very well the change that is needed.

[Canuckistani]

Who said anything about force? Aboriginal people, and not their leadership, need to understand the value that exists within Canadian society, and that the continuation of this rather self imposed segregation and difference helps no one. I live and work in a majority aboriginal area. I understand very well the change that is needed.

I agree with you, but it will never happen. (In our lifetimes anyway) There are too many rewards to natives in power to keep things as they are, and the ROC is thinks they can just keep throwing them crumbs to keep them quiet. Probably when Canada becomes majority Asian from immigration things will change, because the Asians won't take on the white man's guilt, just tell the Indigenous Peoples to get a job.

[Moonbox]

That's a pretty lowlife comment, and no diet will fix that.

Take it with spirit with which is was offered: total contempt for the woman and the welfare community and she lives in. This broken culture of dependency serves nobody, not even the people living on the reserve, but they're too entrenched in the 'poor us' mentality to have any real chance of improving the situation.

Who said anything about force? Aboriginal people, and not their leadership, need to understand the value that exists within Canadian society, and that the continuation of this rather self imposed segregation and difference helps no one. I live and work in a majority aboriginal area. I understand very well the change that is needed.

Well said.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Moonbox

[jacee]

They only to continue to have meaning because they are recognized and affirmed. Without that, they are irrelevant.

Wrong.

Read the BNA Act, Royal Proclamation, treaties.

There's nothing in the constitution that wasn't already law.

It's simply a modern reaffirmation.

Regardless, nobody's changing the Constitution.

You are grasping at 50 year old straws.

Edited December 13, 2012 by jacee

[jacee]

Well said.

But delusional thinking.

[jacee]

Who said anything about force? Aboriginal people, and not their leadership, need to understand the value that exists within Canadian society, and that the continuation of this rather self imposed segregation and difference helps no one. I live and work in a majority aboriginal area. I understand very well the change that is needed.

Have you told them that?

Edited December 13, 2012 by jacee

[jacee]

You force it upon them by changing the constitution and refusing to recognize their rights you're asking for a war.

Not to worry cc.

Smallc's archaic delusions notwithstanding, nobody's changing the constitution.

It's sickening to see the racism expressed here isn't it?

Not my understanding of what a Canadian is.

Edited December 13, 2012 by jacee

[Canuckistani]

It's sickening to see the racism expressed here isn't it?

Ah, the race card. Well played. How it's racist to say all races should have the same rights and responsibilities is beyond me. but never mind, the bottom of the barrel has been scraped. No point to further discussion.

[Smallc]

Wrong.

Read the BNA Act, Royal Proclamation, treaties.

There's nothing in the constitution that wasn't already law.

It's simply a modern reaffirmation.

Regardless, nobody's changing the Constitution.

You are grasping at 50 year old straws.

I understand very well the Canadian Constiturion. I'm not the one grasping at old straws. You can't seem to see past a very old, very dark past, and though it deserves recognition, it is most certainly not the way forward for a modern Canada.

[cybercoma]

Not to worry cc.

Smallc's archaic delusions notwithstanding, nobody's changing the constitution.

It's sickening to see the racism expressed here isn't it?

Not my understanding of what a Canadian is.

Smallc means well. I don't think he has been racist in this thread at all. He's trying to think of ways to lift our Native communities out of poverty. The problem is that the only solution he wants to accept is forcing them to assimilate, despite generations of resistance to assimilation on the grounds that we're the visitors on their land. He and many others refuse to acknowledge this because there is absolutely no way for us to give their land back to them and leave. We've claimed it for ourselves and now we're telling them, "sorry about your luck, but you'll have to give up that last bit of autonomy and become just like every other Canadian."

[Canuckistani]

Smallc means well. I don't think he has been racist in this thread at all. He's trying to think of ways to lift our Native communities out of poverty. The problem is that the only solution he wants to accept is forcing them to assimilate, despite generations of resistance to assimilation on the grounds that we're the visitors on their land. He and many others refuse to acknowledge this because there is absolutely no way for us to give their land back to them and leave. We've claimed it for ourselves and now we're telling them, "sorry about your luck, but you'll have to give up that last bit of autonomy and become just like every other Canadian."

I think that's put the problem very well. The thing is that last bit of autonomy is just keeping them stuck. In the end, First Nations people want what everybody else does - a chance at a good life, materially speaking. The way to get that is to join the system that provides that life,. and that isn't "going back to traditional ways' or "living off the land. It's not even going to be charging the evil white man rent for using the land, because the evil white (and brown and black) man is too dominant to go for that. So the Indigenous Peoples will always get crumbs until they get off their asses and actually work for a living, and pay taxes to maintain the state that allows them to do so.