SHAME! Our 'Health Care" is the pits in comparison. :(

[Argus]

Referring to me as an internet blowhard is a personal attack. Again!

My dear fellow, was it your undertanding I was referring to YOU in this manner!? Pshaaah! I was merely suggesting that causing readers to engage in their own research in order to refute absurd claims would stand them well in future encounters with such people!

I referred to the US when I said their system costs nearly double ours per capita and that is fact. If some of the better universal health care systems in the world out perform ours on cost then that's saying something for universal health care.

Saying something? But what? Another delightful suggestion that we let our minds roam free and explore interesting ideas! Of coure, the fact that other systems outperform ours on cost says something! But what!? By having no suggestion or even hint you encourage people to engage their own minds. And once that's done our only conclusion (as you knew full well, I'm sure! was that our system is horribly inefficient and wildly overpays its unionized members!

Edited June 8, 2014 by Argus

[monty16]

And good grief Argus, why would you show me a link that places Canada either 6th. or 8th. in cost per capita? Surely you didn't think I was suggesting that we outperform the entire world? Were you confused?

[monty16]

My dear fellow, was it your undertanding I was referring to YOU in this manner!? Pshaaah! I was merely suggesting that causing readers to engage in their own research in order to refute absurd claims would stand them well in future encounters with such people!

Saying something? But what? Another delightful suggestion that we let our minds roam free and explore interesting ideas! Of coure, the fact that other systems outperform ours on cost says something! But what!? By having no suggestion or even hint you encourage people to engage their own minds. And once that's done our only conclusion (as you knew full well, I'm sure! was that our system is horribly inefficient and wildly overpays its unionized members!

If you're trying to make a point then please try to make it clear what you want to say. I would suggest that you don't concentrate so much on me and my posting style and concentrate more on your business at hand. Fwiw, I think Canada is placed rather admirably on the OECD and the WHO charts you produced. Good health care costs money and if it's not being funded then that most likely shows up in WHO ratings for quality. Except in the case of the US of course where they pay much more than other countries per capita and get themselves rated in 37th. or 42nd., depending on the year they were rated.

I'm trying very hard to hear you an appreciate you so please try to make your case. Thanks!

[Argus]

And good grief Argus, why would you show me a link that places Canada either 6th. or 8th. in cost per capita? Surely you didn't think I was suggesting that we outperform the entire world? Were you confused?

While your posts often ARE confusing, as I try determinedly to understand the logic (if there is any) I am fairly certain I understood you to proclaim that the problems with our health care were due to a lack of funding by Stephen Harper. Yet the evidence would seem to suggest we spend more than almost everyone else. This indicate a flaw in your, er, thinking, and that the source of inadequate health care lies with something other than funding.

Perhaps the salaries the provinces pay to health care workers is too high?

[Argus]

If you're trying to make a point then please try to make it clear what you want to say. I would suggest that you don't concentrate so much on me and my posting style and concentrate more on your business at hand. Fwiw, I think Canada is placed rather admirably on the OECD and the WHO charts you produced.

Well, thanks to that wonderful man Stephen Harper! We really should thank him for funding health care so generously!

But of course, we must now turn to the long waiting lists and try to ascertain why the provinces are not, despite perfectly adequate funding, ensuring efficient health care. No?

[On Guard for Thee]

Well, thanks to that wonderful man Stephen Harper! We really should thank him for funding health care so generously!

But of course, we must now turn to the long waiting lists and try to ascertain why the provinces are not, despite perfectly adequate funding, ensuring efficient health care. No?

Harper will have us in a f'ed up US system if we keep him in power. He likes funding private enterprise with taxpayer money.

[Smallc]

Ummm...that's exactly what single payer is.

[On Guard for Thee]

Ummm...that's exactly what single payer is.

That's not at all what it is. I don't know what province you are in but in any case, take a look at your goverment issued care card.

[Smallc]

Doctors are almost all private.

[On Guard for Thee]

Paid directly for services renderd according to government guidelines. The difference is, no middle man. That's why our system is moreeffective and cheaper.

[Smallc]

You miss the point. It's funding private enterprise with public money...the thing you said Harper would do.

[On Guard for Thee]

You miss the point. It's funding private enterprise with public money...the thing you said Harper would do.

What I'm saying I'm afraid Harper will do is take healthcare out of government hands.

[Smallc]

It's not even a federal responsibility.

[On Guard for Thee]

It's not even a federal responsibility.

It's not? When did that change? Ever heard of the Canada Healthcare Act? Funded by the feds, administered by the provinces.

[Smallc]

It's not? When did that change? Ever heard of the Canada Healthcare Act? Funded by the feds, administered by the provinces.

Healthcare is mostly funded by the provinces. You're misinformed.

[On Guard for Thee]

Healthcare is mostly funded by the provinces. You're misinformed.

No not really. But the important point is it is government funded and administered on a non profit system. That is the big diff. between us and the US.

[Smallc]

Yea really. It's easy to check the numbers.

[cybercoma]

Healthcare is mostly funded by the provinces. You're misinformed.

The amount of money transferred from the federal government is substantial. It also comes with conditions. This has effectively allowed the federal government to dictate the terms of healthcare across the country, despite it being provincial jurisdiction. Provinces are free to turn down those conditions, but they don't get federal funding. They would be nuts to do so. Imagine telling your taxpayers that you didn't want a federal cash transfer because you didn't want to provide a baseline standard of care. It would be political suicide. So you're right, it's provincial jurisdiction, but the federal government has a lot of sway.

[Smallc]

Sure, but to simply say it's funded by the Feds is pretty misleading, given the provinces provide the bulk of money. It's a joint funding model, and that's fine.

[cybercoma]

Does On Guard actually think health care is entirely funded by the fed? I would be surprised if he did.

[Smallc]

It's not? When did that change? Ever heard of the Canada Healthcare Act? Funded by the feds, administered by the provinces.

Does he? It's not even mostly funded by the Feds. That's what I'm trying to clear up.

[cybercoma]

You said it's not a federal responsibility. The federal government has made it their responsibility through the CHA, as he rightfully pointed out.

[monty16]

Well, after all that at least everyone should know that Harper is trying to destroy our health care system by cutting federal funding. He's in bed with the Fraser institute and that should tell us all we need to know about him. At least everyone except Argus will have got it by now.

[Smallc]

You said it's not a federal responsibility. The federal government has made it their responsibility through the CHA, as he rightfully pointed out.

That could be argued I suppose, but it doesn't change the constitutional responsibilities given that a province can opt out. There's a reason the act isn't mandatory.

[Smallc]

Well, after all that at least everyone should know that Harper is trying to destroy our health care system by cutting federal funding. He's in bed with the Fraser institute and that should tell us all we need to know about him. At least everyone except Argus will have got it by now.

Federal funding has not been cut. The growth had simply been slowed.