Hamas is neither moral, ethical nor civilised.

[Bonam]

Also since you have brought up the Balfour Declaration, and you seem to be using it as a basis for how Israel was created, then how did the Jews create their own state if this document was integral in their creation? Did the Jews hijack parts of the UK's government in order to bring this about?

I'll answer this here. The creation of the State of Israel was the culmination of efforts from a variety of groups, and had many historical events leading up to it. Some of these events, like the Balfour declaration, were helpful to those who wanted to establish Israel. The declaration raised the hopes of many Jews hoping to see their own state founded in the middle-east, and perhaps encouraged more of them to move there and to seek a state. But, in the end, the final declaration of Israel's independence and assertion of its sovereignty was carried out by the Jews living there.

[Canuckistani]

GostHacked, on 29 November 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Zionism still exists.

Yes...in the minds of various Jew baiters.

You mean like this guy:

I still see nothing wrong with being a Zionist

http://www.jewishvir...ource/zion.html

Zionism

:

The national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. Has come to include the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel.

Zionism avocated, from inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left and right,

religious

and secular - joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a

Jewish state

in its ancient homeland was attained.

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by

Nathan Birnbaum

.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Canuckistani

[GostHacked]

Yes...in the minds of various Jew baiters.

Nice! Another line to throw out like Anti-semite. Thanks, I forgot about that one.

[DogOnPorch]

I agree with you on quite a few things. But I was not asking him. I was asking you. Regardless of him bringing it up.

No you don't. You go out of your way to disagree with me. I find it rather amusing. But, that doesn't mean you get to order me around.

[DogOnPorch]

Nice! Another line to throw out like Anti-semite. Thanks, I forgot about that one.

Only a Jew baiter brings up Zionism like it is a work in progress. It's an attempt to make Israel out to be a 'rogue state' with no legitimate right to be where it is. Israel has been a country since 1947. Perhaps even you can agree with me on that...lol.

[GostHacked]

Only a Jew baiter brings up Zionism like it is a work in progress. It's an attempt to make Israel out to be a 'rogue state' with no legitimate right to be where it is. Israel has been a country since 1947. Perhaps even you can agree with me on that...lol.

I said it was a political movement. My other personal feelings about Israel are irrelevant. Reading comprehension?

[DogOnPorch]

I said it was a political movement.

Actually...you said: It's still a political movement, nothing more.

[GostHacked]

Actually...you said: It's still a political movement, nothing more.

Yup, you seem to have a problem with that.

[DogOnPorch]

Yup, you seem to have a problem with that.

Then you said: I said it was a political movement.

So which one is your position, again?

[GostHacked]

Then you said: I said it was a political movement.

So which one is your position, again?

My position and personal views on Israel are irrelevant to the whole situation. Who's baiting who?

[DogOnPorch]

My position and personal views on Israel are irrelevant to the whole situation. Who's baiting who?

GH...you've made two different statements claiming both are your position. You're baiting me.

[GostHacked]

GH...you've made two different statements claiming both are your position. You're baiting me.

I would never troll a troll. Or would I?

[DogOnPorch]

I would never troll a troll. Or would I?

So which one is your actual position?

[GostHacked]

So which one is your actual position?

I was waiting for you to tell me since you like to think that you know what I think. So what is my actual position?

[DogOnPorch]

I was waiting for you to tell me since you like to think that you know what I think. So what is my actual position?

Probably sitting upright...but with you, one is never sure, I guess.

[Guest Peeves]

You see, you won't accept it. Your post about how small Israel is, is a Lebensraum argument. Israel is the size it is, doesn't matter how small. Palestine would be an even smaller country. Lichtenstein is even smaller. To argue that the Jewish Volk deserves more space is exactly the arguments that Nazi Germany made.

You sir are a in my opinion based on your unsupportable defamation of Israel, a fabulist.

I believe I can prove that charge.

Your repeated failure to provide evidence that I have requested proves that contrary to your lebensraum based claim against Israel there has been rather a defamation here of Israel.

*

Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation a negative or inferior image. This can be also any disparaging statement made by one person about another, which is communicated or published,..truncated for brevity.."

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Ever since the 1967 war, when

"Arab mobilization compelled Israel to mobilize its troops, 80 percent of which were reserve civilians. Israel feared slow economic strangulation because long-term mobilization of such a majority of the society meant that the Israeli economy and polity would be brought to a virtual standstill. Militarily, Israeli leaders feared the consequences of absorbing an Arab first strike against its civilian population, many of whom lived only miles from Arab-controlled territory.

Incendiary Arab rhetoric threatening Israel's annihilation terrified Israeli society and contributed to the pressures to go to war.

Against this background, Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against Egypt on June 5, 1967 and captured the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip. Despite an Israeli appeal to Jordan to stay out of the conflict, Jordan attacked Israel and lost control of the West Bank and the eastern sector of Jerusalem. Israel went on to capture the Golan Heights from Syria. The war ended on June 10. "

Forum rules and guidelines.

"If you are stating a fact, be prepared to back it up with some official sources (websites, links etc)"

Now for any questioning my motive for the above issue. I stand firmly against any claiming ANY comparison of Israel to Germany's atrocities and agenda. Any comparison of Israel to (J.^&%$^# Carter) apartheid. Any accusation of Israel and ethnic cleansing. And any accusation that Israel has expanded over territory in 45 year now and in the present by a poster here using Nazi agenda as being also Israels.

[Guest Peeves]

dp. but it was well said and worth repeating. I had been interrupted by wifey needing help with groceries.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Peeves

[Canuckistani]

You mean you need me to provide a link that shows that Jewish settlements exist and are expanding? Really?

Your map showing the size of Israel is classic Lebensraum argument as well. What's the size of Israel got to do with anything. It is what it is. Jews have no more right to larger territory than the Palestinians do, and they have to make do with a lot less to begin with.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Canuckistani

[DogOnPorch]

You mean you need me to provide a link that shows that Jewish settlements exist and are expanding? Really?

So what would you like to be seen done to these Jewish settlers in Judea?

[Canuckistani]

So what would you like to be seen done to these Jewish settlers in Judea?

Move them back to Israel.

[DogOnPorch]

Move them back to Israel.

Ethnically cleanse the area of Jews is one plan...sure. But, perhaps a more pluralistic approach should be taken.

[DogOnPorch]

Hey...a question for anyone.

What's this? Can anyone explain its significance?

[Canuckistani]

Ethnically cleanse the area of Jews is one plan...sure. But, perhaps a more pluralistic approach should be taken.

You mean your solution to ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians? If somebody "settles" in your house, would you call it ethnic cleansing if they are removed?

And, if you think Israel can take over the West Bank and keep all the Palestinians within this greater Israel without a demographic timebomt blowing the "Jewish State" out of the water, you haven't been paying attention. If Israel wants a Jewish state, they need to do it with a majority of Jews, or do you see some sort of South African situation developing here?

[DogOnPorch]

You mean your solution to ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians? If somebody "settles" in your house, would you call it ethnic cleansing if they are removed?

And, if you think Israel can take over the West Bank and keep all the Palestinians within this greater Israel without a demographic timebomt blowing the "Jewish State" out of the water, you haven't been paying attention. If Israel wants a Jewish state, they need to do it with a majority of Jews, or do you see some sort of South African situation developing here?

I see war happening soon. It won't be pretty.

[DogOnPorch]

So...any clue as to what that structure is and its significance?