Macleans Sinks Low

[Sleipnir]

Think I'll start reading it too, the schools system has been brain washing kids for a long time.

Yes...brainwashing them with math, science, English and stuff

[BubberMiley]

Private school is worth the additional cost.. I prefer my children not brainwashed and pistol-whipped. Shame on the teachers

What, no anecodotes of unsourced individual examples of bad teaching to convince those who are opposed to critical thinking that this represents the entire public education system?

[BC_chick]

So, as examples of brainwashing we have one exercise asking children to explain which 3 races they would want to populate the earth and a kid who couldn't play because his parents used a ziplock.

The race question isn't very different than back in my days when we had to choose between the doctor, the astronaut, a nurse and so on. Yet nobody ever said there was a socio-economic agenda in the schools at that time. I think the exercise is supposed to make kids think about their preconceived notions about their fellow earthlings, but somehow it's brainwashing when someone says the R-word.

For the record, it would be brainwashing if the children were being guided which race is 'worth' saving. That is not the case, the children are being taught to think critically about their own beliefs. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, the curriculum often involves critical thinking on divisive issues in the senior high school years. How could there possibly be an agenda unless there is a right or wrong answer? Better yet, why is it so threatening to some people that children contemplate their ideas of race in the first place?

As for the ziplock, I agree that the punishment was too severe but school policy is policy and the environment is not a left/right issue. In my workplace, everyone from the CPC-supporting business owners to the NDP supporting workers are conscious of the environment.

If it's something that is acceptable in the workplace, I don't see the big deal about teaching the children the same thing. If it's not acceptable in the workplace, it should not be taught in schools.

Edited November 12, 2012 by BC_chick

[Bonam]

As for the ziplock, I agree that the punishment was too severe but school policy is policy and the environment is not a left/right issue. In my workplace, everyone from the CPC-supporting business owners to the NDP supporting workers are conscious of the environment.

If it's something that is acceptable in the workplace, I don't see the big deal about teaching the children the same thing. If it's not acceptable in the workplace, it should not be taught in schools.

Using a ziplock bag is not an environmental issue, it is a matter of convenience and hygiene, nor is it forbidden in any workplace I've ever heard of. And, by the way, any workplace that sought to control the activities of its workers down to the type of containers they may use to bring their lunch in would be a microcosm of Orwellianism and hardly a model of values that should be instilled on children in school.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Bonam

[BC_chick]

Using a ziplock bag is not an environmental issue, it is a matter of convenience and hygiene, nor is it forbidden in any workplace I've ever heard of. And, by the way, any workplace that sought to control the activities of its workers down to the type of containers they may use to bring their lunch in would be a microcosm of Orwellianism and hardly a model of values that should be instilled on children in school.

The punishment was too severe, I acknowledged. It's the equivalent of a workplace requiring reusable containers.

But the underlying principle which aims to promote the use of reusable lunch-containers is not about convenience and hygiene, I'm afraid. Plastic bags in every form are destroying the environment and people from every political stripe are acknowledging this fact.

Unless you think everyone using cloth grocery bags is a lefty with an agenda then the school is not adopting a 'leftist' agenda. They are simply adopting a policy that resonates with most of us who care about the implications of the overuse of plastic.

[Bonam]

The punishment was too severe, I acknowledged. It's the equivalent of a workplace requiring reusable containers.

But the underlying principle which aims to promote the use of reusable lunch-containers is not about convenience and hygiene, I'm afraid. Plastic bags in every form are destroying the environment and people from every political stripe are acknowledging this fact.

Unless you think everyone using cloth grocery bags is a lefty with an agenda then the school is not adopting a 'leftist' agenda. They are simply adopting a policy that resonates with most of us who care about the implications of the overuse of plastic.

No, people are free to use cloth or otherwise reusable grocery bags as they see fit. And certainly if they want to take personal steps to reduce harm to the environment, props to them. It's when institutions get involved in trying to force people to act a certain way that I have a problem. There's nothing leftist about using cloth bags, but there's a lot "leftist" (since you want to use that language) with a state or an institution in a position of power (like a school) forcing people to do it.

For example here in Seattle the city just banned disposable plastic grocery bags. You know, typical naive environmentalist initiative. Too bad everyone just uses the paper bags they offer now instead. Any idea how many trees have to be cut down to produce all those paper bags?

And yes, it absolutely is about convenience and hygiene when it comes to lunches. A ziplock bag is clean and sterile compared to a reusable container, which has to be adequately cleaned with running water and chemical solvents after every use to be comparably clean. Did the people who implemented such "policy" consider the amount of water and energy required to clean a reusable container after every use? Did they consider the spread of germs and contaminants through the use of improperly cleaned reusable containers? Schools are a breeding ground for tons of illnesses, and kids frequently share their lunches with friends. And even if they did consider these things, who are they to judge parents for considering their time to be more important and better spent doing things other than cleaning a tupperware container every night and using a more convenient ziplock bag instead? No, in typical braindead fashion they just go "plastic baaaad".

Not to mention, if desired, a ziplock bag can be reused many times just like any other plastic bag.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Bonam

[BC_chick]

And yes, it absolutely is about convenience and hygiene when it comes to lunches. A ziplock bag is clean and sterile compared to a reusable container, which has to be adequately cleaned with running water and chemical solvents after every use to be comparably clean. Did the people who implemented such "policy" consider the amount of water and energy required to clean a reusable container after every use? Did they consider the spread of germs and contaminants through the use of improperly cleaned reusable containers? Schools are a breeding ground for tons of illnesses, and kids frequently share their lunches with friends. And even if they did consider these things, who are they to judge parents for considering their time to be more important and better spent doing things other than cleaning a tupperware container every night and using a more convenient ziplock bag instead? No, in typical braindead fashion they just go "plastic baaaad".

Not to mention, if desired, a ziplock bag can be reused many times just like any other plastic bag.

So the parents are too lazy to wash out a plastic container and so they get upset with the school policy instead? Ok.

Fact is, it's unanimously accepted that plastic is bad for the envrionment and people from both ends of the spectrum are adopting a no-plastic policy.

You go ahead an defend plastic bags all you want, I'm still waiting for a decent example of left-wing 'brainwashing' in our schools.

[Bonam]

So the parents are too lazy to wash out a plastic container and so they get upset with the school policy instead? Ok.

If the school has a problem with the parents, it should talk to them about it, rather than punish a little kid.

Fact is, it's unanimously accepted that plastic is bad for the envrionment and people from both ends of the spectrum are adopting a no-plastic policy.

No, fact is it's NOT unanimously accepted. It just takes one objector to make something not unanimous. Second, people can adopt what they want, but when they start forcing those choices on others, it is perfectly reasonable to take issue. You also failed to address any of the points I made here, instead employing an ineffectual appeal to "common knowledge".

You go ahead an defend plastic bags all you want...

Yep I will, and I'll go ahead and keep using em too.

[BC_chick]

I love how you (dot dot dot) my point. Here it is in full:

You go ahead an defend plastic bags all you want, I'm still waiting for a decent example of left-wing 'brainwashing' in our schools.

This thread is about the leftist brainwashing in public schools and the only example we have is of a kid not being allowed plastic bags in school.

I've agreed that the punishment was too severe (to take it out on the kid) but the school policy itself is not a left/right issue. Plastic bags are not a left/right issue.

Even if it were and I concede and agree that plastic bags are a left-only issue (which is ridiculous), ONE incident does not, in any shape or form, show a mass liberal brainwashing conspiracy in schools as per this thread.

Edited November 13, 2012 by BC_chick

[bleeding heart]

The whole, and rather cherished, notion of "left-wing brainwashing" is becoming...stale...to put it lightly.

Schools and media, media and schools. Leftist brainwashing in the education system, and in the primary informational apparatus!

Hell, if media and schools are some sort of fifth-column, left-wing brainwashing doctrinal system, they don't appear to be very effective at it!

[Merlin]

The educational system and media certainly does tilt to the left, to ignore that is simply being dishonest.

[bleeding heart]

The educational system and media certainly does tilt to the left, to ignore that is simply being dishonest.

I'm not ignoring it; I'm refuting it, until solid evidence (as opposed to random cherry-picked examples) is on offer.

[Merlin]

I'm not ignoring it; I'm refuting it, until solid evidence (as opposed to random cherry-picked examples) is on offer.

What would equate solid evidence? You really think that the media and teachers are right leaning? Edited November 18, 2012 by Merlin

[bleeding heart]

What would equate solid evidence? You really think that the media and teachers are right leaning?

No. But I don't see it as either/or.

Actually they're two very different subjects (my fault, as I brought media up here): but media re broadly supportive of political and financial power...ideology is relatively unimportant.

Teachers are a different matter...but no, I'm not seeing them as left-wing brainwashers...a conspiratorial argument that demands evidence.